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Thread: United we stand, divided we fall.

  1. #1
    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    United we stand, divided we fall.

    To ALL forum Members:

    I have been reading this forum for quite a few months...well before I joined the first time under a different username. I had an administrator unsubscribe me from that account and I dropped out for a short time. I came back under the name CenTex.

    Why did I leave? As a newbie, I was seriously bothered by all the bickering that goes on between the members of this forum. After reading here today for several hours, I see there is no let up or it going away.

    The anti-gunners must be having a good time reading all the bickering* posts here. It must be quite a comedy act for them.

    That does not negate all the great posts here and how much information can be obtained. However, I do think there is too much conflicting information that is hard on the novice who is trying to learn what is legal and what is not legal.

    I was hoping to find "all" members on this forum as mature adults who had a common interest in securing our liberties and rights as U.S. citizens against an ever-increasing police state.

    I was hoping to find "all" forum members "helping" the novices, and others as well, in the lawful practice of Open Carrying in the states that allow Open Carry without abusive remarks, or put downs, which are all too common here.

    I was hoping that civility between "all" members would reign over this forum.

    I was hoping that I would not get caught up in the bickering.

    Well, I am disappointed on all counts. I guess it is just the nature of a forum where so many people come together with subjective opinions that do not always line up with others who have gone through different experiences that have contributed to their opinions. I realize that iron sharpens iron. However, can it be done without so much sparks?

    Remember: UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

    A house divided against itself, cannot stand. Mark 3:25 (Holy Bible)


    *BICKER, v.i.1. To skirmish; to fight off and on; that is, to make repeated attacks.
    2. To quarrel; to contend in words; to scold; to contend in petulant altercation.

    I will be back ever so often to see how things are going and see what has changed in our laws.

    Until then, I sincerely wish you all safe carry and God speed,
    CenTex
    The words of a tyrant: I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -Patrick Henry

  2. #2
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    To ALL forum Members:

    I have been reading this forum for quite a few months...well before I joined the first time under a different username. I had an administrator unsubscribe me from that account and I dropped out for a short time. I came back under the name CenTex.

    Why did I leave? As a newbie, I was seriously bothered by all the bickering that goes on between the members of this forum. After reading here today for several hours, I see there is no let up or it going away.

    The anti-gunners must be having a good time reading all the bickering* posts here. It must be quite a comedy act for them.

    That does not negate all the great posts here and how much information can be obtained. However, I do think there is too much conflicting information that is hard on the novice who is trying to learn what is legal and what is not legal.

    I was hoping to find "all" members on this forum as mature adults who had a common interest in securing our liberties and rights as U.S. citizens against an ever-increasing police state.

    I was hoping to find "all" forum members "helping" the novices, and others as well, in the lawful practice of Open Carrying in the states that allow Open Carry without abusive remarks, or put downs, which are all too common here.

    I was hoping that civility between "all" members would reign over this forum.

    I was hoping that I would not get caught up in the bickering.

    Well, I am disappointed on all counts. I guess it is just the nature of a forum where so many people come together with subjective opinions that do not always line up with others who have gone through different experiences that have contributed to their opinions. I realize that iron sharpens iron. However, can it be done without so much sparks?

    Remember: UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

    A house divided against itself, cannot stand. Mark 3:25 (Holy Bible)


    *BICKER, v.i.1. To skirmish; to fight off and on; that is, to make repeated attacks.
    2. To quarrel; to contend in words; to scold; to contend in petulant altercation.

    I will be back ever so often to see how things are going and see what has changed in our laws.

    Until then, I sincerely wish you all safe carry and God speed,
    CenTex
    When dealing with issues of "opinion" there is absolutely no way you will ever have a forum without bickering.

    When dealing with issues of "the law" there will always be a sometimes heated exchange where one person tries to convince another person to drop preconceived notions of what they think the law is, and to read closely and to study diligently what the law actually says.

    So, you are NOT going to find any forum that doesn't have its share of bickering.

    If you ever run across a forum where every member agrees with everything any other member says, RUN. The next step is castration and purple sneakers for all in preparation for the Kool-Aid party and the arrival of the mothership.

  3. #3
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
    When dealing with issues of "opinion" there is absolutely no way you will ever have a forum without bickering.

    When dealing with issues of "the law" there will always be a sometimes heated exchange where one person tries to convince another person to drop preconceived notions of what they think the law is, and to read closely and to study diligently what the law actually says.

    So, you are NOT going to find any forum that doesn't have its share of bickering.

    If you ever run across a forum where every member agrees with everything any other member says, RUN. The next step is castration and purple sneakers for all in preparation for the Kool-Aid party and the arrival of the mothership.
    Soooo True.

    Deco, its good to see you and Mudcamper on the forum posting today!!!
    You two need to visit more often!!!

  4. #4
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    I remember when there was a time when there was no bickering on the California forum.

    Of course its pretty hard to instigate an arguement with yourself. Or get in an all out tiff with the two other people logged in that agree with you. Growth here has been exponential and organic, and there's bound to be friction somewhere with such a broad spectrum of participants, but it still is a refuge from those sites that proclaim concealed is the only way to go.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    I was seriously bothered by all the bickering that goes on between the members of this forum. After reading here today for several hours, I see there is no let up or it going away.
    All internet forums are like this, or much, much, MUCH worse. Have you visited CalGuns, or the High Road, or arfcom? This place is a nunnery by comparison. Better grow a thick skin.

  6. #6
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    I feel you CenTex. Prior to my recent gun seizure, I used to spend most of my time OCing and very little time on the forum. With members who carry firearms regularly, in the face of persecution, I expected more of a unified and productive response to my request for back up. Turns out it is a real mixed bag.

    On the other hand, freedom of speech is critical to keeping a movement honest. My only suggestion would be that members, particularly established members, take the prerogative to call out all members being systematically counterproductive. There is no doubt that there are subversive government agents wreaking havoc, with Counter Intelligence Operations, on this site.

    We either all hang together, or hang separately.

  7. #7
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    feel the same way!

  8. #8
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    I must have missed all the bickering

  9. #9
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Question

    I've read mostly constructive debate here... Given the matters in this state we've done a good job of backing up our merits with cites (unlike most internet arguments/discussions).

    Now, if you're meaning divided as in rivaling views amongst the internet... What did you expect?
    Last edited by demnogis; 01-26-2011 at 01:51 AM.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
    When dealing with issues of "opinion" there is absolutely no way you will ever have a forum without bickering.

    When dealing with issues of "the law" there will always be a sometimes heated exchange where one person tries to convince another person to drop preconceived notions of what they think the law is, and to read closely and to study diligently what the law actually says.

    So, you are NOT going to find any forum that doesn't have its share of bickering.

    If you ever run across a forum where every member agrees with everything any other member says, RUN. The next step is castration and purple sneakers for all in preparation for the Kool-Aid party and the arrival of the mothership.
    "Bickering" can be done as a discussion. It comes across much saner when done that way. It would be good if more forum participants could do this.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  11. #11
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AyatollahGondola View Post
    I must have missed all the bickering
    That's because the election is over and Chelene isn't campaigning anymore.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  12. #12
    Activist Member Joshua Costa's Avatar
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    Sometimes we all need a place to vent and let It all out. Their is a term for it and it's called academic freedom. If your not listening to all sides of the argument how can you make the correct educated decision?

    I understand how it can seem to be detrimental to the movement but unfortunately that is the nature of this sort of thing. To tell someone that it's their responsibility to protect them self and not the government, means they must assume more responsibility that they might not be comfortable with. The core theory behind this website is in its self, abrasive.

    Respectful forceful and thought provoking comments will spark conversations, that I believe, will move forward the gun rights movement in America. These debates must happen, and right now forums like this one are the most accessible medium.

    Before I am able to debate an anti on an issue, I use these forums to strengthen my position. I need to know every possible tidbit of information for my argument to be infallible.
    Last edited by Joshua Costa; 01-27-2011 at 12:05 AM. Reason: grammar, punctuation
    "I do not love the sword for its gleam, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory; I love only what they protect."
    J.R.R. Tolkien

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AyatollahGondola View Post
    I must have missed all the bickering
    The occasional personal squabbles are easily recognized as such by anyone who follows the forum. There is the occasional badge-licker-vs.-cop-basher drama. Most participants pay little attention to any "bickering", although it can go on page after page (mostly with just 2 or 3 participants).

    This forum is light on internecine squabbles compared to others, as has been pointed out. Most political/2A/libertarian/religion forums are much harsher, and the more narrowly they're divided, the more vicious the disagreement.

    The smaller the head of the pin upon which the angels dance, the more willing they are to shove one another off the pin and into the abyss.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolusername2007 View Post
    That's because the election is over and Chelene isn't campaigning anymore.
    Oh; That bickering. I kind of miss that

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    The smaller the head of the pin upon which the angels dance, the more willing they are to shove one another off the pin and into the abyss.
    Loved it. Let's expand this pin to an oasis.

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