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Thread: Neenah PD take on OC.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Zeus's Avatar
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    Neenah PD take on OC.

    I just wanted to post this info because I thought some folks might find it interesting/useful. I know some of you will piss and moan about the fact that you don't need to ask the police permission to OC etc.. I get it, but there's a new police chief here so I wanted to know how they handle these situations and how much experience their officers have with this . So, here's the email I received back, take it or leave it.

    Good Morning,

    Great Question...

    As you know, the 2nd Amendment gives every citizen the right to "Bear
    Arms." Consequently, in the state of Wisconsin we have an "Open Carry"
    law, rather than a "Concealed Carry" as some states do. So what does this
    mean for you?

    As long as you meet certain criteria, you are allowed to openly carry a
    firearm in the City of Neenah.

    First, the key word is "open", as the firearm cannot be concealed in any
    manner (under a jacket, in your waist band etc.).

    Second, there are certain buildings and businesses where firearms are not
    allowed, openly carried or not.

    Government buildings, within 1000 feet of a school, bars and liquor stores
    and/or any private business that posts that firearms are not allowed or
    asks a person to leave carrying a firearm. Private businesses are within
    their rights to ask someone to leave their business for any reason at any
    time, including possessing a firearm. If the individual carrying the
    firearm refuses to leave the business, the police may get called to assist.

    Third, a citizen of Wisconsin may not carry an open firearm if they are a
    convicted felon.

    So, how are our police officers handling these situations?

    If we receive a call that an individual is walking along the street with a
    handgun holstered (because many citizens are unaware of this right, and
    therefore get scared and call the police), we may make contact with the
    individual with the handgun or we may not. It really depends on the
    totality of the circumstances (time of day, knowledge of recent crime in
    the area, conduct of the individual etc.) If the officer makes contact
    with the individual, the officer will most likely identify that they see a
    weapon is being openly carried, and advise the person to refrain from
    placing their hand on the weapon during the contact. The officer will ask
    for identification from the individual and try to determine why they are
    carrying the handgun. if the officer is able to determine that no laws are
    being broken (as stated above), the individual will go about their
    business. This will be done in a very non-threatening and professional
    manner, but until an officer is able to determine the circumstances they
    are faced with, their safety comes first. Officers WILL NOT be detaining
    these individuals at gun point, unless a direct threat to the officer's
    safety is observed.

    Bottom line is, if the individual is simply exercising their right to carry
    their handgun, as Wisconsin law allows, and is following all laws
    pertaining to Open Carry, there would not be any problem. We as a
    department have had a few calls about individuals carrying handguns in
    public, and there have been no problems. However, it sounds as though you
    can appreciate how this makes our jobs a bit more difficult, as we consider
    our safety as well as the public's safety.

    Thanks for the question!

    Officer Cory M McKone
    Crime Prevention Coordinator
    Neenah Police Department
    2111 Marathon Ave
    Neenah, WI 54956
    Phone: 886-6022
    e-mail: cmckone@ci.neenah.wi.us
    When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
    --Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    I just wanted to post this info because I thought some folks might find it interesting/useful. I know some of you will piss and moan about the fact that you don't need to ask the police permission to OC etc.. I get it, but there's a new police chief here so I wanted to know how they handle these situations and how much experience their officers have with this . So, here's the email I received back, take it or leave it.
    I don't like any of their response. They can ask for ID all day, but they really can't demand if just for OC, nor can they run your serial number, etc.

    The tone of the letter say they can and will do those things if they choose to.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    He stated you cannot carry in a "liquor store" I must have missed that statute. Also, "totality of the circumstances"... Where have I heard this before...?

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    He is wrooooooong about not being able to carry in a liquor store. What else is he wrong about? Totality of circumstances? Good, I just hope they detain and arrest and hold an individual for open carrying. For not providing ID. Against their will. These clowns need to read the f'n law.

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    McX
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    totality of circumstances?...................*** **.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Zeus's Avatar
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    I was wondering about the liquor store comment as well. To my knowledge that is not correct. Thanks for your feedback.
    When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
    --Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member BrewTownBagger's Avatar
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    I have also had a similiar response with the Wauwatosa Police Department. I had a contact with a leo form Tosa and asked her what the position of the department was on oc'ing in the city and she referred me to another officer that was handling the training and protocol for the department

    I contacted that officer and had a very pleasant conversation. One of the major points of the conversation was the fact that they have trained their dispatchers on how to handle oc'ing calls. The dispatchers are trained to ask questions about any gun calls that come in and to inform the public that open carry by itself is legal in Wisconsin.

    All in all we had a good conversation, he was well versed on the laws and even stated I didnt need to show ID if I was stopped but it would help ease the situation and relax the officers if I did. He also stated if any officer was to make me get face down in the dirt that he would be the first one to apologize and would pay for any drycleaning if need be.(my concern was the fact that I dress nice and if the cops were going to be aggressive, I wanted to know ahead of time what I could expact)

    He did state though that there are some officers and supervisors who are not happy with people oc'ing in the city. Oh well, I Have carried all over this city and have yet to be hassled by the police.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    I just wanted to post this info because I thought some folks might find it interesting/useful. I know some of you will piss and moan about the fact that you don't need to ask the police permission to OC etc.. I get it, but there's a new police chief here so I wanted to know how they handle these situations and how much experience their officers have with this . So, here's the email I received back, take it or leave it.
    To me there is nothing wrong with checking out the "territory" before you "enter it". I also checked with a few Chiefs of Police in my area before I got "into it". Understanding the situation is not asking for permission. Other than the liquor store blunder, the letter is polite and educational which is what you hoped for. Now you know.

    We can gripe all we want about giving ID, but the bottom line is, put yourself in their shoes with their job. We have a chance to be educational ambassadors. Let's use it. On the other hand if they want to be bullies (as in some cities), let them pay (SSSS) for the "privilege".

    my $.02 worth

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    I can't say would send a letter asking about a policy that is already defined, but I also do not see anything wrong with the response that was posted from the Neenah Pd. I think officer was trying to be cordial and polite and I would leave it at that. Where I'm from, seeing someone with a gun is nothing out of the ordinary, but maybe in the more populated areas, it is an issue. I guess I can't say.

    I personally think our biggest issues will be, and probably already are, with our beloved DNR. I would love to see a response from them like the one that the Neenah PD gave, if asked their stance on open carry. I don't think it would be worded the same.

  10. #10
    McX
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    kind words are nice, but they can also be orchestrated as they might have thought you would post their response in a public forum. their actions will speak louder than their words.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    He stated you cannot carry in a "liquor store" I must have missed that statute. Also, "totality of the circumstances"... Where have I heard this before...?
    These were some things that stood out for me as well.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member theoicarry's Avatar
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    I had been in contact with the Lake Delton LEO about Oc in the Tanager Mall, and was told, I could be cited for a (misdemeanor) or however you spell it. If there is No sign and no one asks you to leave, what violation is there?

  13. #13
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoicarry View Post
    I had been in contact with the Lake Delton LEO about Oc in the Tanager Mall, and was told, I could be cited for a (misdemeanor) or however you spell it. If there is No sign and no one asks you to leave, what violation is there?
    time to join Wisconsin Carry! and also...............dont talk to the cops!

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    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoicarry View Post
    I had been in contact with the Lake Delton LEO about Oc in the Tanager Mall, and was told, I could be cited for a (misdemeanor) or however you spell it. If there is No sign and no one asks you to leave, what violation is there?
    There is no violation. The LEO is trying to intimidate you into not carrying.
    Jim Burgess
    NRA Lifetime

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    I will say that I have carried now (once in Walmart) in Neenah and will again much in the next few days. I too had 'felt out the water' in Neenah before OCing for the first time and got a similar response when I went to the station in person to inquire.

    And I must have missed something but what is it about "totality of circumstances"? And what exactly is the law about alcohol and establishments? I could not locate a specific statute. Thanks

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd40 neenah View Post
    I will say that I have carried now (once in Walmart) in Neenah and will again much in the next few days. I too had 'felt out the water' in Neenah before OCing for the first time and got a similar response when I went to the station in person to inquire.

    And I must have missed something but what is it about "totality of circumstances"? And what exactly is the law about alcohol and establishments? I could not locate a specific statute. Thanks
    941.237, you cannot carry in places that serve alcohol for consumption (class B liquor license) unless you have permission from the owner/manager for the time you will be there.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    941.237, you cannot carry in places that serve alcohol for consumption (class B liquor license) unless you have permission from the owner/manager for the time you will be there.
    Thanks

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    He also missed cars and state parks... So... You can carry in your car if you are not "1000 feet from a school" (he said from the school, not from the edge of school grounds) I know I'm splitting hairs, but still...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    I just wanted to post this info because I thought some folks might find it interesting/useful. I know some of you will piss and moan about the fact that you don't need to ask the police permission to OC etc.. I get it, but there's a new police chief here so I wanted to know how they handle these situations and how much experience their officers have with this . So, here's the email I received back, take it or leave it.
    There's a big difference between asking permission and asking what an agency's policy is. I always appreciate when there is a post like yours. It gives us a heads up on the attitudes that are out there by law enforcement around the state and what to expect should we be in that area.
    A few years ago, I had the opportunity to ask an individual officer (Vilas Co.)how he would react to an open carrier (this was b4 JB's memo). He was argumentative, intimidating and would not tolerate anyone oc'ing. In the meantime I got to speak to his former boss and the newly elected one and they both claimed they had no problems with someone carrying legally.
    On another note, last year I was listening to the scanner and heard a call of a MWAG behind the gas station in the Rhinelander parking lot at Walmart. The dispatcher sounded like she asked the correct questions of the caller because she relayed that two guys appeared to be looking at it. Of course two or three units arrived quickly. The guys were arranging a private sale in a public place and that was that.
    Thanks for your post.

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    "This will be done in a very non-threatening and professional
    manner, but until an officer is able to determine the circumstances they
    are faced with, their safety comes first"

    According to whom may I ask, Mr. Officer?

    -Landose-
    Last edited by Landose_theghost; 01-25-2011 at 10:16 PM.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    So, no one has noticed this little tidbit yet?
    As you know, the 2nd Amendment gives every citizen the right to "Bear Arms."
    I thought the Bill of Rights protected rights, not granted them. As I recall, it's a prohibition on Government, not a grant to the People.

  22. #22
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckdog View Post
    I can't say would send a letter asking about a policy that is already defined, but I also do not see anything wrong with the response that was posted from the Neenah Pd. I think officer was trying to be cordial and polite and I would leave it at that. Where I'm from, seeing someone with a gun is nothing out of the ordinary, but maybe in the more populated areas, it is an issue. I guess I can't say.

    I personally think our biggest issues will be, and probably already are, with our beloved DNR. I would love to see a response from them like the one that the Neenah PD gave, if asked their stance on open carry. I don't think it would be worded the same.

    I have sent a few letters to the State DNR, and all of the replies I have say just what you think. The State DNR wants you to think that it is above the law. Trust me, look it all over and any reasonable person can see that many DNR "laws" are indeed illegal. Do I want to be the one to test them... Well not alone I don't... Would I like to test them... You bet...

  23. #23
    Regular Member Carcharodon's Avatar
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    I carry in Neenah almost exclusively and am positive I have been reported. I have yet to speak to the police yet. Either they're doing their jobs right or I'm hard to find,lol.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    It's much better than the letter i received from the old cheif

  25. #25
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landose_theghost View Post
    "This will be done in a very non-threatening and professional
    manner, but until an officer is able to determine the circumstances they
    are faced with, their safety comes first"

    According to whom may I ask, Mr. Officer?

    -Landose-
    if the gun is in the holster, and the subject behaving on an even keel, and compliant, then it's safe in my book. besides, what the hell are they worried about? got their batman belts full of gadgets and ammo, radios, and bulett proof vests and all, looks like they got the upper hand to me.

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