Choices...Choices....

I know this study is a little old mut it may give you give you some help.

1983 Study from forest service on Bear Defense calibers. There scoring system is a little screwy. Like look at the 300 win mag vs. the .308

300 win mag scored much lower than the .308.

.300 win mag is 400 fps faster than the .308, bullet weight was the same granted the bullet type was a little differn't but still to be that much differn't? I'm not quite sure charlie brown!


http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf


What I took away from this while a handgun is something....its not a very good option for bears.

rob99vmi04 said:

I know this study is a little old mut it may give you give you some help.

1983 Study from forest service on Bear Defense calibers. There scoring system is a little screwy. Like look at the 300 win mag vs. the .308

300 win mag scored much lower than the .308.

.300 win mag is 400 fps faster than the .308, bullet weight was the same granted the bullet type was a little differn't but still to be that much differn't? I'm not quite sure charlie brown!


http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf


What I took away from this while a handgun is something....its not a very good option for bears.

Click to expand...

Shooting a bear with a rifle is a totally different set up from shooting one with a handgun. Most rifle rounds rely much more heavily on velocity and precise shot placement. A defense situation with a handgun is different in that it's less precise and velocity is severely limited, therefore limiting temporary wound cavity and energy transfer. Handguns are always limited in defense, because they are a compromise. Almost all handgun rounds that are suitable for self defense are comparatively weak compared to a hunting rifle round.

I hunt much of the time with a rifle caliber that is more powerful than the .300win mag, but to be honest at short ranges it seems to make little difference on the game I've taken with it versus my .280 remington or 30-06. The difference in speed and energy at longer ranges is what separates my 300RUM from the other 2. It retains much more velocity and energy downrange and can reliably break heavy bone and hide to reach vitals and often make a through and through shot while still making a bullet expand to it's full potential. This in my mind is the difference between rifles and pistols. A 180 grain hunting bullet propelled at 3300+FPS and producing 4400+ lb/ft of energy is something you just cant achieve with a defense pistol of comfortable size and weight.

I wasn't going to post anymore in this thread, but I love caliber debates:lol:

I don't like studies that focus on energy and velocity as the holy grail of firearm effectiveness. These are good, to a certain extent, when it comes to longer ranges. But it is not the endgame. In a dangerous game defense situation, unlike a normal hunting situation, killing the critter isn't the first priority. Stopping it is the first priority. Big heavy bullets, even slow ones, will be more effective. Look up Thorniley Stopping Power. It is geared toward the stopping of big game.

If I had to choose between my .300 Weatherby Mag. rifle (200gr bullets), and my .475 Linebaugh revolver (425gr bullets) when going into bear country, I would choose the .475 every time. It will out penetrate any .300mag (even the RUM and .30-378 Wby) any day.
However, I would carry my Guide gun (.45-70) loaded with 525gr LFNGC bullets at 1600fps before the .475, if packability wasn't an issue. Heck, I'd carry my Guide gun before a .375 H&H for short range bear stopping.

High velocity, small caliber, rifles kill with energy and hydraulic shock. Big bore, lower pressure, firearms kill by making a big hole, and busting up alot of stuff. Each have their place and advantages/disadvantages. They do damage in different ways.

The OP was talking about a last resort, short range, defensive situation. In that arena, I would go with a big-bore revolver hands down, 44mag or heavy.45 Colt minimum. Hard cast flat-nose bullets. Also I would have ...wait...I've said it before...Bear spray! (that way you don't have to explain to the warden why you killed a bear out of season. )

I'm also of the belief that a semi-auto isn't the way to go. Taurus makes a titanium .44mag revolver that would be easy to carry. I would get 2 or 4 inch barrel. 240 grain jacketed flat nose. I carry a .44 mag while bow hunting. Have seen bears but they usually run away. Had one sow with cubs stare me down from about 15 feet. Good thing she just left as am sure I would not have been fast enough to defend myself at that range.

I feel like a large bore revolver is also the best choice, but the OP didn't say that was an option. Of the 2 options he listed, I believe a 10mm is his best bet. The availability of heavy loads and it's capacity is a much better choice over a 40sw.

As for bigger slower bullets penetrating more deeply, there is a point of diminishing returns when mass at lower velocity gives way to a lighter, faster bullet.

s&w .500


or

[video=youtube;9q4zv2QGdos]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q4zv2QGdos&NR=1[/video]

George Mann said:

Whatever you do, make sure you are using either a hard-cast, or fmj flat-nosed bullet in the biggest caliber that you can consistently handle.

No other handgun round will reliably penetrate a bear!

I seriously recommend a good, quality revolver. Not only are they available in bear-stopping calibers, they are also the most reliable.

Click to expand...

I agree. I ahve seen some posts in here suggesting Holow point rounds. I STRONGLY disagree with this idea. The biggest issue with bears and firearms is not the rounds ability to do enough damage, the issue is ability to penetrate the bears EXTREMELY tough hide. I have heard of numerous bears being discovered with .38, 7mm(rifle), .357 ect rounds in its hide (no real damage done). You want a very hard round definately FMJ or AP if available and legal in your area. Otherwise your shooting is simply agrivating the bear more.

Another question is what kind of bow hunting does he do? I have several friends in SPokane WA who hunt black bears with Long bows and Compound Bows. Might want to look into Bear specific arrowheads. If he can put down a dear with a single arrow... he is better off then betting his life with a handgun he may not be surgical with.