Is it time to insist on Standardized Police Uniforms?

DEROS72 said:

Personally I am becoming increasingly unnerved by the militarization of law enforcement.It smacks of Power and control and the SS. I think they shoukd have a standard uniform, casual, carry a radio a .38 revolver ,night stick and a flashlight.like they did when I was akid.

When we watched the shooting from the tower at the Uni.of Texas in I believe 64 or 66..anyway the police had civilians,regular folks get there weapons and provide cover fire while they got an officer to the top and take the guy out with a shot gun.

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Funny thing about the SS, they had very easy to identify uniforms and they were all the same uniform. This is going to sound a little off, but continuity of dress is yet another way for things like group think to continue to pop up in law enforcement. I don't like the way law enforcement officers are often selected for the job, They often hire very similar psychological profiles and personalities which leads to a narrow paradigm that is very difficult to shift. I think it causes an us against them mindset and that is bad for a civil servant. Keeping every officer in the same uniform tends to promote a fraternity mindset and that could be detrimental to the quality of their work and a lack of original and or creative problem solving.
I'm not insinuating that uniforms alone make all this happen, but there is a reason the military likes uniforms and a lack of personal identity. I truly don't think it matters what equipment the officer uses a long as it is reasonable and easy to tell that they are police officers.

Does anyone have a picture of the two uniforms to point out discrepancies?

Because most "tactical uniforms" I see police wearing say POLICE right across their chest and back.

Yeah your right agout the unifrms and maybe SS is harsh.I'm just refering to the bully mentality we seem to see crop up more in some LE. Don't get me wrong in my area I run into LE that I consider pretty good guys .You are right about this us vrs them attitude becoming more prominent and it goes both ways as well.

killchain said:

Does anyone have a picture of the two uniforms to point out discrepancies?

Because most "tactical uniforms" I see police wearing say POLICE right across their chest and back.

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Here's one style
Note the small lettering for the "name badge". Couple that with the badge number either not on the "embroidered badge" or in low contrast thread.

and a couple more. In this case there are two different patrol uniforms for the same department (exclude the ATF agent)


If it wasn't for the car, is this a Police Officer or a Security Guard:


The regular SPD Uniform:



It also seems like SPD officers are always mourning the loss of an officer somewhere so note how how the badge number in in a near perpetual state of concealment



And as far as the words "Police" on the tactical uniforms, it's usually on the back in big white letters. That's only to keep fellow officers from shooting them.

The above pictures only show some of the uniforms in use in SPD. Bicycle units use different uniforms at different times of the year as expected. Add to the mix the KCSO uniforms and their palette of colors and it gets interesting.

The aggressive tackling and breaking of someone's neck had nothing to do with uniforms.

DEROS72 said:

Yeah your right agout the unifrms and maybe SS is harsh.I'm just refering to the bully mentality we seem to see crop up more in some LE. Don't get me wrong in my area I run into LE that I consider pretty good guys .You are right about this us vrs them attitude becoming more prominent and it goes both ways as well.

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That mentality is one of the reasons I do not like the profile selection process. It leads to most of the officers having the same mentality and limits dissenting voices as well as promoting a fraternity atmosphere.

sudden valley gunner said:

The aggressive tackling and breaking of someone's neck had nothing to do with uniforms.

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Granted, but the persons running from what some claim were poorly identified officers did play a role. Maybe if they were wearing those big "Police" letters on the front of their uniforms the injured party might not have been running to begin with.

All conjecture of course.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have two guys running towards me in the middle of the night wearing tactical gear (I have seen plenty of thugs wearing tactical gear), with no visible identifying marks on them (I have seen some of their black gear with the word POLICE on it, but it is almost as dark as the black uniform), and they are running towards me yelling "police," I consider them to be merely claiming to be police, not actually being police.

Anyone can yell that they are police, or claim that they are police. I will not be detained by anyone, or allow anyone to get close to me unless they are proven to be a police officer. The last thing I am going to do is hand over my ability to fight back by letting someone who I am not sure is LEO detain me, by cuffing me, disarming me, or being right up on me where I can't escape or fight effectively.

LEO's have in-part brought this onto themselves. They hide any markers of who they really are, and then expect us to give up when they yell police, that we are to assume the person or persons yelling it have to be police.

LEO's should be required to wear uniforms that clearly show that they are LEO...if not, then misunderstandings are going to happen--it is a danger to them, and a danger to the public when they are not clearly marked as LEO. Personally, if I was LEO, i would want the person I am approaching to know clearly that I am LEO, so there is no misunderstanding...misunderstanding leads to a citizen thinking they are under attack by some thug(s) and they respond accordingly...who wouldn't!

Do you want to hear something interesting? I briefly worked armed security for a company which had us wear the exact same uniform as the city police—just different patches and shield. Now many of us were law enforcement, but some were not. This could present a false authority via color of law.

In most states, private security officers do not have arrest powers other than citizens arrest—unless they are working for a government entity under contract.

I think at least localities should have a standardized police uniform... also, private security companies should not wear the same uniforms as law enforcement.

Whoa, to me this looks like an inmate in disguise!!!!

Gee, Mr. "GreenIsFaster" -- perhaps you can post a photo of yourself, so we can all make critical comments about your appearance.

(Just what is it about this gentleman's appearance that you believe makes him look like an "inmate" anyway?) In the interest of equal time, can we post a photo of a random open-carrier and make a stupid comment regarding what he (or she) resembles?

GreenIsFaster said:

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This uniform is unacceptable to me.

Bo said:

Gee, Mr. "GreenIsFaster" -- perhaps you can post a photo of yourself, so we can all make critical comments about your appearance.

(Just what is it about this gentleman's appearance that you believe makes him look like an "inmate" anyway?) In the interest of equal time, can we post a photo of a random open-carrier and make a stupid comment regarding what he (or she) resembles?

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Gee, let's start.

http://www.cityofseattle.net/police/publications/Policy/SPD_Manual.pdf


1) Goatee.

A. Male Hair Standards

- 5. The face will be clean shaven, except that mustaches will be permitted.If a mustache is worn, it shall be kept neatly trimmed and tidy.

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2) Untidy mustache

Side note, what's the first thing you (a normal citizen, not a tactical or Navy SEAL whupasser) see when you look at somebody? Their face. Duh!

3) KOOBRAAAA HISSSSSSSS emblem. Really? Seriously? Pretty bad ass looking.

4) Short sleeve revealing chain tattoo.

5) Lastly, this is probably my opinion, but that button up looks like the Dickies style that thugs and gangbangers be rockin.





And LASTLY, lastly. Here you go, take a stab.

Make fun of my dirty shoes, or tell me to get a haircut or let me know that yellow hat does not match anything! Go ahead and tell my chief. Wait a minute, I don't work for the chief! Jokes on you!!!! BWAHHAHHAHAHA

Oh my gosh! Someone needs to get on the horn to Chief Diaz ASAP, and let him know that he's got officers who have goatees! And scraggly mustaches! And, OMG, actual tattoos! God forbid that SPD officers can enjoy the same freedoms as Seattle citizens when it comes to their grooming habits, personal dress or body art!

For a forum that has members that so vociferously protest against stereotypes while lobbying so strongly for personal rights ... some of you make me sick.

Did you completely ignore the quote from THE SPD HANDBOOK?????

One more thing, WHEN YOU WORK FOR SOMEBODY, you don't get to choose what you can do or look like. Well you can, you can GET ANOTHER JOB.

Want to have a scraggly mustache? And a goatee? And revealing tattoo on short sleeves? Start your own business! Then tell me how far you get looking like that!

AFPVet said:

This uniform is unacceptable to me.

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I see police twice on the chest and once on the shoulder..... Although I would agree about the uniform.

Just out of curiosity, what combination of attributes would allow you to automatically accept police attire as genuine and not that of an impostor? Isn't that a little silly? What can't be duplicated?

Even the armed services allow choices in some ways, more so when not standing in formation. In the army one could wear a sweater or not, chose which (similar) shoes or boots to wear, whether or not to wear a jacket, etc.

Attempting to exercise less petty control over those who have the power to return the favor might be a good idea. Don't let LEA use a uniform as such a powerful indoctrination tool. Allow LEO to question the agency about uniform choices successfully and they might feel emboldened to question other policies as well.

If we choose to have police we should allow them to be more human and encourage personal liberty. Perhaps we'll find the job might attract an ever higher percentage of folks who respect liberty and are not so enamored of wanting to exercise power behind an anonymous blue or black storm trooper facade.

A clearly visible mark in the same location on all plain clothes gear might suffice, front and back.

Uniforms have strong psychological impact on both the wearer and the observer. There's a reason they're used by schools, maids, LEO, military, fast food, etc. Check this out:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+Psychological+Influence+of+the+Police+Uniform-a073845616

Menlo Park was on to something there for a while. Too bad it changed.

C'mon, all the uniforms in a specific department don't need to be identical, but they should have specific reference design elements that hold true in all but the tactical uniforms, and the tactical (SWAT) gear should only be worn during an operation, not while just wandering about giving tickets.

Start out with all uniform options whether dress shirt, polo, sweater, jacket, etc. to be the same color and have specific reference points such as badge size and location, name size and location, department ID size and location, etc.

Let's face it, even the staff at Target and Wal*Mart are color coordinated.

Next, uniform pants. I don't care if it is ski pants, slacks, skirt, shorts, or whatever, same color across the board.

You can have any shoes, belt, holsters, etc. over a very wide range that is approved, so long as the are black.

Hats, caps, etc. same colors no matter the style, and plainly marked.

Not insisting everyone wear the same style or type of clothing and gear, just that what they do wear clearly matches in color, impression, and markings across the force.
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Back when I was an engineering manager my team all decided to show up at a meeting with other engineering groups "in uniform." We decided to all wear a burgundy top and black from belt down. It worked well, everyone knew we were "that team."

Later we started doing it every Wednesday or when we were doing something as a group. Eventually we were doing it more often than not. We became recognizable when moving in groups, and being that we had a very good rep, that was good.

We didn't all start to think alike or act alike, we were still a pack of rugged individualists.

(...and only three of us had been military.)

well,,

i like all you say here, but i wonder why you make exception for swat?

C'mon, all the uniforms in a specific department don't need to be identical, but they should have specific reference design elements that hold true in all but the tactical uniforms, and the tactical (SWAT) gear should only be worn during an operation, not while just wandering about giving tickets.

i think that, especially in tactical/swat gear, that name, badge and other insignia
be obvious and quickly identifiable!

i hate the idea, that if a no knock warrant was served on my house,
that after the yelling, the banging and the busting down of the door,,,
i would mistakenly kill a man, cause i couldnt quickly tell he was a cop!

BTW no knock warrants are crazy, deadly and dangerous.
now the are called knock warrants, but they are used very wrongly.
yelling and pounding on the door for 1 to 3 seconds,
then crashing through, because the resident wouldnt open the door, soon enough!

Bo said:

Gee, Mr. "GreenIsFaster" -- perhaps you can post a photo of yourself, so we can all make critical comments about your appearance.

(Just what is it about this gentleman's appearance that you believe makes him look like an "inmate" anyway?) In the interest of equal time, can we post a photo of a random open-carrier and make a stupid comment regarding what he (or she) resembles?

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Haha, Green you are despised you got the MR. in front of your name...hehehe join the club.

So Mr. Bo (chuckle) who has shown such 'strong' opinions and have constantly leaped to conclusion about people and their personalities. I wonder how many countless times cops have stopped and detained someone on their "appearance"?