Is it time to insist on Standardized Police Uniforms?

amlevin · Jan 30, 2011

Bo said:
God forbid that SPD officers can enjoy the same freedoms as Seattle citizens when it comes to their grooming habits, personal dress or body art!

Actually, employers do have the right to dictate what image their employees present. One example is the NW's largest Tire Chain, Les Schwab. Employees are not allowed facial hair, long haircuts, no visible piercings w/hardware. Similar grooming requirements are conditions of employment for other employers as well. If you want the job and take the money, you have to follow the rules. The "Freedom" aspect is that you are "Free" to seek employment elsewhere. It would seem that some provisions of the manual are selectively enforced.

This officer looks a lot like what was prevalent in the Denver PD during the late 80's and into the 90's. Officers would get "pumped up" in the gym (some felt with "the juice"), shave their heads, and wear uniform shirts that showed off their "guns and tat's". Violence against citizen complaints were frequent and the attitude presented by most was "we're the biggest and baddest gang in town and we've got the law on our side".

Moved back to the NW before I noticed any action taken against the department by the Feds.

amlevin · Jan 30, 2011

TechnoWeenie said:
I see police twice on the chest and once on the shoulder..... Although I would agree about the uniform.

Would you be able to read this at 2:00 AM in less than optimal lighting? How about Name? Badge Number?

amlevin · Jan 30, 2011

Tomas said:
C'mon, all the uniforms in a specific department don't need to be identical, but they should have specific reference design elements that hold true in all but the tactical uniforms, and the tactical (SWAT) gear should only be worn during an operation, not while just wandering about giving tickets.

Start out with all uniform options whether dress shirt, polo, sweater, jacket, etc. to be the same color and have specific reference points such as badge size and location, name size and location, department ID size and location, etc.

Let's face it, even the staff at Target and Wal*Mart are color coordinated.

Next, uniform pants. I don't care if it is ski pants, slacks, skirt, shorts, or whatever, same color across the board.

You can have any shoes, belt, holsters, etc. over a very wide range that is approved, so long as the are black.

Hats, caps, etc. same colors no matter the style, and plainly marked.

Not insisting everyone wear the same style or type of clothing and gear, just that what they do wear clearly matches in color, impression, and markings across the force.
______

Back when I was an engineering manager my team all decided to show up at a meeting with other engineering groups "in uniform." We decided to all wear a burgundy top and black from belt down. It worked well, everyone knew we were "that team."

Later we started doing it every Wednesday or when we were doing something as a group. Eventually we were doing it more often than not. We became recognizable when moving in groups, and being that we had a very good rep, that was good.

We didn't all start to think alike or act alike, we were still a pack of rugged individualists.

(...and only three of us had been military.)

Most Cities and County's are complaining about not being able to field enough police officers. Putting the ones out there in UNIFORMS that look alike (kind of the definition of "uniform" isn't it?) might well present the appearance of having more officers patroling than their actually are. Kind of hard to portray that if there is a smorgasbord of clothing selections available to officers. Likewise for patrol vehicles but that's for another topic.

oneeyeross · Jan 30, 2011

Bo said:
Oh my gosh! Someone needs to get on the horn to Chief Diaz ASAP, and let him know that he's got officers who have goatees! And scraggly mustaches! And, OMG, actual tattoos! God forbid that SPD officers can enjoy the same freedoms as Seattle citizens when it comes to their grooming habits, personal dress or body art!

For a forum that has members that so vociferously protest against stereotypes while lobbying so strongly for personal rights ... some of you make me sick.

What you are failing to recognize is that the officer isn't following his own departments rules. While in the US Army, I had to wear a uniform and follow hair cut/beard/mustache rules. That is a part of the game. There is a reason they call it a uni (meaning one) form, the concept being that they should and will all look alike. SPD officers, while in uniform, DO NOT enjoy the same freedoms as Seattle citizens enjoy in their grooming habits. They know that, and I am sure were told that, when they put the uni (one)form one and were sworn in. I would be willing to bet that your department has similar rules...

Same with any uniformed service, be it martial or civil. Fire departments, police departments, sheriff's departments, National Guard, Army, Air Force, Navy, etc...they have a uniformity of look about them. To allow a member of the unit to dress/groom themselves as they want to do destroys the very essence of "uniform."

This shouldn't be a hard concept for people to understand. "Something that is uniform has literally only ‘one form’, the same throughout. The word comes, probably via French uniforme, from Latin ūniformis, a compound adjective formed from ūnus ‘one’ and forma ‘form’. Its use as a noun, for a ‘set of identical clothes worn by everyone’, dates from the 18th century, and was inspired by French." http://www.word-origins.com/definition/uniform.html

sudden valley gunner · Jan 31, 2011

I think someone is a little over sensitive about LEO's and should just avoid putting his opinion in any threads that deal with them. He obviously isn't mature enough to handle any sort of criticism, but hey that is typical.......:lol:

Butch00 · Jan 31, 2011

The way a lot of cops act while on duty....
Maybe the German SS uniform should be their uniform.

amlevin · Feb 1, 2011

Butch00 said:
The way a lot of cops act while on duty....
Maybe the German SS uniform should be their uniform.

Nah, they are now collectors items and too expensive. A pair of black coveralls do the job as well.

sudden valley gunner · Feb 1, 2011

I got a better Idea, let's reduce the amount of power and police our "authorities" have. And they can were whatever uniform they like.

amlevin · Feb 1, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
I got a better Idea, let's reduce the amount of power and police our "authorities" have. And they can were whatever uniform they like.

Perhaps like the British

Pretty easy to tell that they are officers although the lack of a firearm might be problematic in this country.

marshaul · Feb 1, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
i got a better idea, let's reduce the amount of power and police our "authorities" have. And they can were whatever uniform they like.

Yes!

amlevin said:
Pretty easy to tell that they are officers although the lack of a firearm might be problematic in this country.

I think the lack of a firearm would solve several existing problems.

Far as I am concerned, law enforcement has reached a point where firearms should have to be requisitioned from storage when actually needed.

DrTodd · Feb 1, 2011

BigRed said:
i would only agree with that is the "cop" was in an unmarked car and tried to pull you over at night. If the "cop" is in a marked patrol car and is pulling you over...saying you were not sure if he was a real cop or not is probably not gunna fly

It does in Michigan. LEOs need to have at least 1 prominent marking that it is a police car (usually on the passenger door). I have also known unmarked cars to radio a patrol car to pull someone over. Does Washington have something similar?

amlevin · Feb 1, 2011

DrTodd said:
It does in Michigan. LEOs need to have at least 1 prominent marking that it is a police car (usually on the passenger door). I have also known unmarked cars to radio a patrol car to pull someone over. Does Washington have something similar?

My understanding of WA Law and Policies is that the Unmarked Car is OK but any officer making a traffic stop has to be in full uniform. On that note, what uniform? His standard uniform, his tactical uniform, or whatever combination thereof he might have chosen for the day. What's interesting is to watch TV video of officers at a major traffic accident and even those from the SAME department are wearing different uniforms.

Maybe we should all be issued decks of Playing Cards with pictures of all the legal uniforms and combinations we might encounter here in the State. Kind of like the old WWII Aircraft ID playing cards or the ones I saw when overseas that showed the different kinds of Soviet arms and vehicles we might encounter.

amlevin · Feb 1, 2011

marshaul said:
Yes!

I think the lack of a firearm would solve several existing problems.

Far as I am concerned, law enforcement has reached a point where firearms should have to be requisitioned from storage when actually needed.

My understanding of the British system is that most patrol officers are unarmed and they are backed by select groups that respond when there is the chance of armed confrontation. Their officers are equipped, in many cases, with stab resistant vests as knives are the most common weapon carried by BG's. Guns are not as readily available in the UK.

oneeyeross · Feb 3, 2011

One issue with the British system, however, is that the populace are "subjects" of the crown and not citizens... It is easy to not fear subjects.

amlevin · Feb 3, 2011

oneeyeross said:
One issue with the British system, however, is that the populace are "subjects" of the crown and not citizens... It is easy to not fear subjects.

But then again were all the residents of the once numerous British Colonies. When those in America tossed off the "King's yoke", others did as well. Some violently and others peacefully. Those that were allowed to "leave" peacefully no doubt were allowed because those that left by force caused "some" fear in the "Crown".

One thing that the British do is put plenty of officers on foot patrol. Not all that many drive around in A/C'd vehicles with the windows rolled up "patrolling". They are right there where they can be see and be seen.

Trigger Dr · Feb 3, 2011

I believe there should be two types of uniform. First type a military style withprominently displayed POLICE on both front and back.
Second type White or pink pajama style with horizontal black stripes. Let the officers actions determine the uniform.

marshaul · Feb 3, 2011

amlevin said:
My understanding of the British system is that most patrol officers are unarmed and they are backed by select groups that respond when there is the chance of armed confrontation. Their officers are equipped, in many cases, with stab resistant vests as knives are the most common weapon carried by BG's. Guns are not as readily available in the UK.

The police in London have been generally unarmed since the days when any British subject could carry a gun concealed whenever he liked.

This probably has a lot to due with the lack of desire for firearms on the part of certain criminals.

Anyway, I'm not sure what point you're getting at, but well-behaved police ought to be reasonably safe, even if they are only allowed to arm themselves when they know they are going into a situation which calls for it.

amlevin · Feb 3, 2011

marshaul said:
The police in London have been generally unarmed since the days when any British subject could carry a gun concealed whenever he liked.

This probably has a lot to due with the lack of desire for firearms on the part of certain criminals.

Anyway, I'm not sure what point you're getting at, but well-behaved police ought to be reasonably safe, even if they are only allowed to arm themselves when they know they are going into a situation which calls for it.

This brings up the "which came first, the chicken or the egg" type question. Are police having to arm themselves more heavily because of the criminals actions or are criminals arming themselves more heavily because of the Police actions?

Is it necessary for the police force to become more and more a military styled operational force (I'm not talking command structure or discipline) with military styled tactical uniforms? Or return to more traditional appearance and behavior.

marshaul · Feb 3, 2011

amlevin said:
This brings up the "which came first, the chicken or the egg" type question. Are police having to arm themselves more heavily because of the criminals actions or are criminals arming themselves more heavily because of the Police actions?

Perhaps the whole thing is a vicious cycle and our public servants should be the better people by stepping down, and breaking the cycle.

sudden valley gunner · Feb 4, 2011

Since criminals mostly kill other criminals.

The militarization of the police force could be for another reason. Power and subjugation.

Is it time to insist on Standardized Police Uniforms?

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