Is it time to insist on Standardized Police Uniforms?

killchain said:

I just want to point out that everyone in these pictures obviously looks like a Police Officer.

Click to expand...

Sure about that?



This guy looks like a mall ninja. And a tool.

marshaul said:

SNIP Sure about that?

Click to expand...

You know, you have a point there. Looking at the picture, I realized that for just a moment I did not recognize a cop, and then did what I usually do, I assumed it was a cop--I do this not because I know it is a cop, but because I have to assume it is for my own legal safety.

But, that is very different from recognizing a cop. I'm bettting police know this and capitalize on it. "What's he gonna do, say I'm not a cop. He can't afford to do that, nor will he think it in his best interest to anger me in case I am a cop."

It was the question, "sure about that'?" that jogged it for me. Emphasis on sure. Versus assumption.

marshaul said:

Sure about that?

This guy looks like a mall ninja. And a tool.

Click to expand...

I was thinking school crossing guard.


And a tool.

Wow, a new low for this forum.

Cops getting criticized for their appearances. First the statement that one of SPD's officers looks like a prison inmate, now another called "mall ninja," "crossing guard" and not one, but two guys (from Virginia, no less) calling another SPD officer a "tool."

I see a tool or two in this thread, but not in any of the photos.

Bo said:

Wow, a new low for this forum.

Cops getting criticized for their appearances. First the statement that one of SPD's officers looks like a prison inmate, now another called "mall ninja," "crossing guard" and not one, but two guys (from Virginia, no less) calling another SPD officer a "tool."

I see a tool or two in this thread, but not in any of the photos.

Click to expand...

So what's your opinion on Uniforms? Should Departments have more standardization or should every "unit" be wearing something different? How do you feel about Badge Numbers being clearly visible as well as nice large, readable name tags? Should patrol officers look like "Patrol Officers" or should they all look like "Tactical Officers"?

A Police Officer's opinion would be nice so we might understand the mindset, or the "culture" as one said, better.



Comment for Morris-

If uniform expense is an issue for an officer then where was the Union when the contract was being negotiated? A uniform allowance is pretty standard in many contracts as I understand.

Bo said:

Wow, a new low for this forum.

Cops getting criticized for their appearances. First the statement that one of SPD's officers looks like a prison inmate, now another called "mall ninja," "crossing guard" and not one, but two guys (from Virginia, no less) calling another SPD officer a "tool."

I see a tool or two in this thread, but not in any of the photos.

Click to expand...

(Sigh) Did you even read the posts? For an officer you have shown a lack of discernment and understanding. You really are not doing your cause or argument any good coming on here with your confrontational, and aggressive behaviour.

Is this how you do your cop work.? 1st who the F cares where someone is from? 2nd No one from Virginia said what you said. 3rd the tool part didn't refer to his dress and he does look like a tool. 4th he's is a tool, our tool. Or do you just unilateral jump to the defence of LEO? If so you are part of the problem.

Bo said:

Wow, a new low for this forum.

Cops getting criticized for their appearances. First the statement that one of SPD's officers looks like a prison inmate, now another called "mall ninja," "crossing guard" and not one, but two guys (from Virginia, no less) calling another SPD officer a "tool."

Click to expand...

Hey, I also live in California, and I've encountered enough CA LEOs (and paid enough taxes) to call it like I see it.

If police wish to carry guns, give orders, and shoot people who don't follow those orders, they better be easily identifiable as cops, with no room for error.

The cop in question fails in this regard.

As for him being a tool... Well, look at his face!

Yes, SVG -- I read ALL the freakin' posts! (Including the stupid ones, which constitute the majority of remarks in this thread.)

The person "marshaul" from VA was the first to proclaim "tool." No, I don't really care where anyone here lives, although the ridiculousness of someone from the East Coast criticizing the appearance of West Coast LEOs is, in my opinion, subject to commentary, since there's apparently free rein here to judge human beings on the looks they were born with.

The irony of people on a forum (allegedly) devoted to civil rights making disparaging remarks about others based on their looks should be evident. If you can't see that, then you have no credibility with me.

So what's your opinion on Uniforms? Should Departments have more standardization or should every "unit" be wearing something different? How do you feel about Badge Numbers being clearly visible as well as nice large, readable name tags? Should patrol officers look like "Patrol Officers" or should they all look like "Tactical Officers"?

Click to expand...

I think, to attempt to put it all into proper perspective, there are bigger fish to fry on the law enforcement scene than uniforms.

Standardization? SPD has a handful of different outfits. So what? Badge numbers? I don't think that's an issue at all. If a citizen desires to render forth a formal complaint about an officer, the officer's name is used. Most of us would submit that badge numbers are useful only on citations when someone's signature is illegible; since reports are typically generated on computer now, all radio and mobile communications are monitored, recorded and often transcribed, the badge number is pretty irrelevant these days.

Name plates/tapes? Should be legible, but I've never myself had a problem reading an officer's name ... You know, if you're dealing with a cop and can't read his name plate, you can always ask (for those of you that have any sort of verbal communication skills -- I know some of you can't bear the thought of actually speaking with a cop, but hey, give it a try sometime -- you might be pleasantly surprised that you are -- gasp -- interacting with another actual human).

Uniforms are way expensive, and they don't last long. Not whining. Just a fact. When you're issued six shirts and three or four pairs of trousers, over the years, you end up buying your own. Plus, alterations and patches are often done at one's own expense too. Uniform maintenance allowances are usually inadequate, to say the least, if one's employer even provides one.

Most of you, if you're in a job working shifts that are usually nine to twelve hours a day or so, plus OT, want to be comfortable.

When you're helping a stranded motorist change a tire on the muddy roadside, responding to a TC with multiple injuries and lots of blood in really bad weather or on the rare really hot day, wrestling with a drunk in a bar parking lot at 2:00 a.m., getting puked on by said drunk, standing in the rain outdoors on duty for some event or another, but most especially, wearing body armor for nine or more hours a day, you want to be comfortable. Not to mention the ten or fifteen pounds of gear you have to wear around your waist ...

We don't complain about the expense of our uniforms, and I sure haven't seen any "whining" about that here, despite comments to the contrary, and we do "suck it up." More than any of you would ever know.

None of us dress in "tactical" attire because we think it makes us "look cool." Previous immature comments in this thread notwithstanding. BDUs are practical. And yes, cops want to be recognized as cops, no one tries to hide that by wearing the uniform they're issued.

I can't believe some of the attitudes and comments expressed in this thread.

Finally, SVG calling me confrontational and aggressive? I'm not automatically jumping to the "defense of the LEO" since none of the folks you're debasing require any defense -- on the internet -- from me. If you believe that there's anything in this thread worth defending, you inflate your own importance.

Bo said:

The person "marshaul" from VA was the first to proclaim "tool." No, I don't really care where anyone here lives, although the ridiculousness of someone from the East Coast criticizing the appearance of West Coast LEOs is, in my opinion, subject to commentary, since there's apparently free rein here to judge human beings on the looks they were born with.

The irony of people on a forum (allegedly) devoted to civil rights making disparaging remarks about others based on their looks should be evident. If you can't see that, then you have no credibility with me.

Click to expand...

First of all: I was born, and reside for more than half the year, in California. I pay your salary, buddy. Show some respect.

Second of all: I wasn't judging the innate appearance the man was both with. I was judging his attire, his posture, his expression, or, as we say, his "bearing". And my judgement stands (it rarely fails me).

Finally: You have no credibility with me. I wouldn't expect what I am unwilling to give in turn. My posts are not for your benefit.

Oh, you so crack me up! His "innate appearance." His attire? Let's see, he's got a clearly visible badge, large patches on each shoulder identifying his department, a uniform that is one color and seems to fit, all the tools of a patrol officer, and yes, that's a clearly marked police vehicle -- golly, right next to him! Even tourists from Virginia or California or Sweden or Japan might just suspect he's a Seattle Police officer, what with the car sporting some fairly large letters reading "Seattle" all over it ...

So is it the expression on his face? His posture? Thank gosh there are discerning citizens such as you out there, who can instantly judge others based on all these factors. I wish I could just look and someone and know, what a tool.

But hey, unless you pay taxes in the state of Washington, you don't pay my salary.

Bo said:

Oh, you so crack me up! His "innate appearance." His attire? Let's see, he's got a clearly visible badge, large patches on each shoulder identifying his department, a uniform that is one color and seems to fit, all the tools of a patrol officer, and yes, that's a clearly marked police vehicle -- golly, right next to him! Even tourists from Virginia or California or Sweden or Japan might just suspect he's a Seattle Police officer, what with the car sporting some fairly large letters reading "Seattle" all over it ...

Click to expand...

Penalty flag: referencing the car. What if he stepped away from the car? I've no doubt you're familiar with John T. Williams.

The officer doesn't have his badge fully visible, and as a result it looks fake. His uniform is dark and tacticool, hides its details and looks like a jumpsuit more than a police uniform. I'm not sure I see the point of even considering that a "uniform" other than to take your side. As for shoulder patches, well, mall ninjas and crossing guards have those too.

So is it the expression on his face? His posture? Thank gosh there are discerning citizens such as you out there, who can instantly judge others based on all these factors. I wish I could just look and someone and know, what a tool.

Click to expand...

Well, now you can! I'm pleased to be able to offer training in this amazing skill. Our class will begin with a sample:

But hey, unless you pay taxes in the state of Washington, you don't pay my salary.

Click to expand...

OK, you got me there. But I still get to claim "west coast perspective" wherever convenient.

Defending California cops? First of all I can't defend California cops (I lived there once upon a time, even did a reserve gig with a PD in SoCal).

But, dude, you are in the Washington forum. All photos shown thus far in this thread depict Seattle PD and maybe one or two other local agencies. At any rate, if you haven't lived up here, where you can experience all four seasons within four hours on the same day, you really have no basis to critique our attire.

Badge not fully visible? Looks fake? C'mon, is that your best? Shoulder patches? Do our mall cops and crossing guards sport patches saying "Seattle Police?" I'm gonna take a shot here, and say, "no." "Jumpsuit?" Sigh. Guess you can't please everybody ...

Bo said:

Yes, SVG -- I read ALL the freakin' posts! (Including the stupid ones, which constitute the majority of remarks in this thread.)

Rafter out of own eye first.

No, I don't really care where anyone here lives,

Than quit bringing it up, , and you were wrong about where the guy was from to begin with. And about what he meant by "looks like a tool"

The irony of people on a forum (allegedly) devoted to civil rights making disparaging remarks about others based on their looks should be evident. If you can't see that, then you have no credibility with me.

Not their looks their dress, and as I pointed out I don't care about that I care about their actions. (Did you miss this yet again). Yet others pointed out their valid opinion on why it matters to them. (You are our employee, I can tell my employee to wear Pink tutu to work and fire him if he doesn't.)

I think, to attempt to put it all into proper perspective, there are bigger fish to fry on the law enforcement scene than uniforms.

I agree, start with simple comprehension and reading skills.

Standardization? SPD has a handful of different outfits. So what? Badge numbers? I don't think that's an issue at all. If a citizen desires to render forth a formal complaint about an officer, the officer's name is used. Most of us would submit that badge numbers are useful only on citations when someone's signature is illegible; since reports are typically generated on computer now, all radio and mobile communications are monitored, recorded and often transcribed, the badge number is pretty irrelevant these days.

I agree, and feel they shouldn't break a guys neck even if they have the right "suspect".

Name plates/tapes? Should be legible, but I've never myself had a problem reading an officer's name ... You know, if you're dealing with a cop and can't read his name plate, you can always ask (for those of you that have any sort of verbal communication skills -- I know some of you can't bear the thought of actually speaking with a cop, but hey, give it a try sometime -- you might be pleasantly surprised that you are -- gasp -- interacting with another actual human).

I have, read my thread with inter-reactions with state troopers. But if you approach me I am going to be immediately skeptical of what your intentions are again discussed in another thread. Anything you say is suspect since many officers lie in the course of their investigations.

Uniforms are way expensive, and they don't last long. Not whining. Just a fact. When you're issued six shirts and three or four pairs of trousers, over the years, you end up buying your own. Plus, alterations and patches are often done at one's own expense too. Uniform maintenance allowances are usually inadequate, to say the least, if one's employer even provides one.

Most of you, if you're in a job working shifts that are usually nine to twelve hours a day or so, plus OT, want to be comfortable.

Boohoohoo, most employees buy their own clothes for the job, and in my business you buy all your own tools too.

When you're helping a stranded motorist change a tire on the muddy roadside, responding to a TC with multiple injuries and lots of blood in really bad weather or on the rare really hot day, wrestling with a drunk in a bar parking lot at 2:00 a.m., getting puked on by said drunk, standing in the rain outdoors on duty for some event or another, but most especially, wearing body armor for nine or more hours a day, you want to be comfortable. Not to mention the ten or fifteen pounds of gear you have to wear around your waist ...

We don't complain about the expense of our uniforms, and I sure haven't seen any "whining" about that here, despite comments to the contrary, and we do "suck it up." More than any of you would ever know.

The above two paragraphs are a conflict you are whining then commending yourself for sucking it up?

None of us dress in "tactical" attire because we think it makes us "look cool." Previous immature comments in this thread notwithstanding. BDUs are practical. And yes, cops want to be recognized as cops, no one tries to hide that by wearing the uniform they're issued.

I can't believe some of the attitudes and comments expressed in this thread.

Yes I agree and yours is a perfect example.

Finally, SVG calling me confrontational and aggressive? I'm not automatically jumping to the "defense of the LEO" since none of the folks you're debasing require any defense -- on the internet -- from me. If you believe that there's anything in this thread worth defending, you inflate your own importance.

There was lots of things worth defending, but you obviously are just concentrating on the fact that OMG! somebody criticized cop attire. (shake head, because it wasn't me or that guy from VA who "muscles his way into threads") I was making a joke because this is one of the boiler plate words cops use in their reports when somebody disagrees with them, along with belligerent, suspicious, nervous, etc

Click to expand...

So please Bo if you are going to reply to these threads do so with reason, I don't care if you like me or not, I don't have to. But as a public employee you need to care how the public views you. If you are going to attack posts attack a specific post and use logic and reason to break it down, and state your opinion, like I did to your above raging rant. Also I would appreciate it if you kept it shorter and more to the point.

Bo said:

So is it the expression on his face? His posture? Thank gosh there are discerning citizens such as you out there, who can instantly judge others based on all these factors. I wish I could just look and someone and know, what a tool.

Again not what he said, he said "looks like". .

But hey, unless you pay taxes in the state of Washington, you don't pay my salary.

I can't stand this attitude from public employees,and it is very telling about their personality. We here in the state do pay your salary, so whenever he is in this state whether or not he contributes to your salary you still work for him, he being a member of the "public".

Click to expand...

Again Bo you are not doing other LEO a service by the way you are posting. And are proving to many their beliefs on the attitude and mentality of LEO.

Once again, SVG, I am compelled to point out that my comments were in response to comments stating that serving law enforcement officers look like "inmates" and "tools." Frankly, I could care less what you think of our state's state of law enforcement attire.

And yes, the gentleman from Virginia (now apparently claiming dual residency in California as well) was the first to term the SPD officer as a "tool."

Where does "breaking someone's neck" come in relative to a discussion about police uniforms, anyway?

Boohoohoo, most employees buy their own clothes for the job, and in my business you buy all your own tools too.

Click to expand...

Ah, gee that's awesome, but hardly relevent to a discussion of uniforms. If you think that I was crying about the situation, well, whatever, I'm not gonna try and convince you otherwise, since you seem to have your mind made up already ...

The above two paragraphs are a conflict you are whining then commending yourself for sucking it up?

Click to expand...

You think my comments are whining? Sheesh. Hardly. Commending myself? No; simply stating fact.

I know that you know no more about what I go through every day that what I know about what you go through -- I presume you are an average, hard-working citizen who wants to provide for his family, the same as I.

We all suck it up on our jobs, if we work hard at all, and I'm not congratulating myself on that fact, anymore than I would presume to criticize you for how you dress on your job or complain about your facial expressions, "bearing" or hold you up for ridicule and call you a tool based on a photograph.

You know, some of you probably have no idea what that officer may have just been witness to at that scene, and here you go calling him derogatory names.

What little honor this forum has left is rapidly dwindling when its members resort to stereotyping, name-calling and making judgements on people's personality and character, based solely on photographs.

Bo said:

Oh, you so crack me up! His "innate appearance." His attire? Let's see, he's got a clearly visible badge, large patches on each shoulder identifying his department, a uniform that is one color and seems to fit, all the tools of a patrol officer, and yes, that's a clearly marked police vehicle -- golly, right next to him! Even tourists from Virginia or California or Sweden or Japan might just suspect he's a Seattle Police officer, what with the car sporting some fairly large letters reading "Seattle" all over it ...

So is it the expression on his face? His posture? Thank gosh there are discerning citizens such as you out there, who can instantly judge others based on all these factors. I wish I could just look and someone and know, what a tool.

But hey, unless you pay taxes in the state of Washington, you don't pay my salary.

Click to expand...

So....

What about these guys? :lol:












:lol:

TechnoWeenie said:

So....

What about these guys? :lol:

:lol:

Click to expand...

YES! I just laughed the hardest I have in a week. Thanks for that.

Bo, the issue of breaking someone's neck is a significant issue, since, as you must know, having read the entire thread, a young man had his neck broke while fleeing from two Transit Authority men wearing black (?) BDUs. They were not recognized by the young man in question as police, so when approached, he fled. After he was tackled by the officers, breaking his neck and turning him into a quad, it was discovered it was a case of wrong suspect. Now, had the police officers been wearing a "standard" uniform, would the young man still have fled? Who knows, but the authorities believed a jury would have found for the young man and settled.

THIS was the issue that brought this thread about. Several of use believe that a police officer, who works for us, by OUR authority and under OUR guidelines, should have a uniform that WE can recognize.

I don't think it is a difficult to understand. Unless the police are trying to catch us off guard by confusing us, I can't for the life of me understand why it would be an issue for officers. Why not let us know who and what you are? Be proud of your job, relish in the uniform. Show it off. BUT LET ME KNOW WHAT IT IS! I shouldn't have to guess if the guy yelling "Hey you, stop!" is really a cop or not. (By the way, I wouldn't stop, my name isn't "hey you!")

Actually, I just had my car worked on at my favorite independent shop last Thursday, and that crossing guard shown earlier and the uniform my mechanic was wearing were quite similar, right down to color, patches on both sleeves (ASE and Kendall patch for the mechanic) and even a name tag and badge-like shop patch over the front pockets. All the mechanics at that shop were dressed the same (the owner thinks it makes his mechanics look more professional).

Another shop down the street, the mechanics look more like inmates, since they all wear orange jumpsuits, but that's another discussion... :lol:

Let's toss another factor into the equation

Let's ask the question, "Who should select Police Uniforms" and what should the process be?

Should the Police Officers be allowed to select the uniform they wear and the Public just has to go along?

Should Police Officers be allowed to select the uniform they wear and the Public have final approval?

Should the Public select uniforms with input from the officers?

Should all patrol officers be required to wear the same uniform and if they serve "special squads" only wear the task specific uniform while performing those duties?

I know that this is several questions but they all have pretty much the same theme of "Who gets to pick the uniforms, what are they, and when should they be worn. Who's the employer and who's the employee?

Note for Bo-

In 2010, $832.5 million dollars in Federal money was made available from one grant alone to State and Local Police departments. There are several other instances where Federal money made its way into State and Local PD's so in essence, every one in the US, in some measure, does contribute to the wages of Police officers everywhere. Yes, Police officers do work for their local jurisdiction, and in turn the local citizens but don't discount the fact that EVERYONE does contribute to their paycheck.