taurusfan
Regular Member
This incident raises an interesting question...what if one of us carrying a gun came upon such a scene with multiple people savagely beating someone?
What to do?
What to do?
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Reason Number 11ty to OC in Richmond...
- Thread starter pyite
- Start date
wylde007
Regular Member
Call the police. Inform of the situation and your intent.
Maintain a safe distance. Draw. Attempt to execute a citizens arrest. Wait for the police.
React accordingly.
Maintain a safe distance. Draw. Attempt to execute a citizens arrest. Wait for the police.
React accordingly.
Kenny, all joking aside...you're absolutely right. I do hate cities, not just Richmond, all cities and I include the surrounding burbs in that dislike.
I hate the constant noise and trash. I hate having to constantly watch what others are doing because you can't tell the good from the bad. I hate pavement and pollution and a cop on every corner, drugs, cities within cities of immigrants, City Councils and boards of supervisors that closely resemble the three stooges, high taxes, slums, projects, parking meters, silly regulations, fat women in spandex jogging suits, City Buses that are more dangerous than guided missiles, fancy restaurants with waiters who float and smells that would make a Billy Goat Puke.
Aside from those and a few other reasons....I suppose they are OK:uhoh:
I used to own some apartments in the city..mostly on Duvall Street. I had to take a shotgun when I collected the rent. I used to work in Richmond. Even when I was with the state you had to carry a gun to get to your car. I had three sets of license tags stolen one year.
Thankfully, I have never lived in a city (If you call that living) and never will.
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ProShooter
Regular Member
Yep, that's my breaking point right there!
T Dubya
Campaign Veteran
That's a good question. Would the kick in the head justify the use of deadly force?
Would appropriate to say stop or I'll shoot, and if they don't stop, then shoot em?
Would it be appropriate to say stop or I'll shoot and then guy continues to kick him in the head then you shoot (try to anyway) the kicker?
I feel like we are more likely to encounter a deadly situation like this when we are carrying than interrupting a robbery or whatever.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
+1
Unless of course the words are "All citizens will turn in their firearms at the nearest Firearm Receiving Center."
USNA69
Regular Member
What does one (or two) LEO do in a similar situation? Waiting for back-up to arrive may result in the death of the victim, if the assault continues.
Just posing the question; I don't know the answer. But, it is crucial to rehearse this scenario in your mind and to have a plan.
T Dubya
Campaign Veteran
Oh, the hell with it. Shoot em'. If Herring couldn't find a grand jury to prosecute the Baskin Robbin's shooter he won't find a grand jury to prosecute someone that saves an innocent from nearly being killed by being beaten on. Especially after how disgusted the Richmond public has become with this beating.
Zak Kee
Regular Member
+10
taurusfan
Regular Member
We as private citizens can only shoot to kill, deadly force against deadly force. We don't hold people at gunpoint for the police! No warning shots in the air! Deadly force until the threat of deadly force is no more.
Jonton
Regular Member
Or "I've got a gun, give me your money or I'm going to kill you."
Zak Kee
Regular Member
I heard a story a few years ago from my father who had said that a woman was attacked leaving the restaurant she worked at, when someone who was carrying came up behind the guy and made him stop the attack, the attacker apparently surrendered and laid down on the ground while the person who was attacked called the Memphis police. The attacker stayed on the ground even after the guy put away his firearm. When the police arrived and took away the attacker. The police apparently informed the guy helping the situation that the attacker, if he would have been smarter, could have the law abiding citizen taken away and prosecuted for pretty much holding him against his will.
*disclaimer*
Like I said I heard this a few years ago from my father, and cannot find articles about it online, nor can I validate this. So don't make an attack on me, just throwing out there what has been told to me.
wylde007
Regular Member
A citizens arrest made in good faith and most-especially with a witness at hand would likely not be prosecutable in any court.
<not an attack>
Zak Kee
Regular Member
Out of curiosity, how is a citizens arrest made under Virginia laws? What is procedure and under what section of law do you find more information on this?
wylde007
Regular Member
Citizen's Arrest is made under common law in Virginia. There is no specific code section which "permits" a citizen's arrest but is widely held that it must be a witnessed felony OR a misdemeanor representing imminent harm or breach of peace (DUI, simple assault).
Zak Kee
Regular Member
And for that, the person under the citizens arrest is supposed to just sit there and respect your authority? I assume you cannot hold them with weapon drawn even if you catch them doing a felony offense?
wylde007
Regular Member
You may use means up to and including those of a uniformed officer... however you experience no qualified immunity for cases of mistaken identity or injury. You can still be held civilly liable.
That being said, a citizen's arrest is really an order to accede to the civil authority in lieu of badged authority, though they both derive from the same initial source.
If you issue a lawful citizen's arrest (verbally) and the perpetrator does not oblige, flees or acts in an otherwise threatening, abusive or resistant manner then they can also be prosecuted for other crimes, I believe.
That being said, a citizen's arrest is really an order to accede to the civil authority in lieu of badged authority, though they both derive from the same initial source.
If you issue a lawful citizen's arrest (verbally) and the perpetrator does not oblige, flees or acts in an otherwise threatening, abusive or resistant manner then they can also be prosecuted for other crimes, I believe.
Wylde, a misdemeanor citizens arrest is made under common law but a felony arrest is included in the Va Code...Now, you're gonna make me look it up, aren't you:lol:
wylde007
Regular Member
I wish you would because I could not find it when I searched. I would be quite grateful for a cite to statutory law as reinforcement, because all I could come up with was case law.
§ 19.2-100. Arrest without warrant.
The arrest of a person may be lawfully made also by any peace officer or private person without a warrant upon reasonable information that the accused stands charged in the courts of a state with a crime punishable by death or imprisonment for a term exceeding one year. But when so arrested the accused shall be taken before a judge, magistrate or other officer authorized to issue criminal warrants in this Commonwealth with all practicable speed and complaint made against him under oath setting forth the ground for the arrest as in the preceding section; and thereafter his answer shall be heard as if he had been arrested on a warrant.
(Code 1950, § 19.1-64; 1960, c. 366; 1975, c. 495.)
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There is a lot of case law that allows an arrest for a misdemeanor, but here is a good one:
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavwp/0560042.pdf
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