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Thread: Why would a college student need a gun?

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    Why would a college student need a gun?

    This was sent out on the 24th:
    _____________________
    Dear William & Mary Community,

    I’m writing to inform you that one of our students was the victim of an armed robbery early this morning. The incident occurred at approximately 1 a.m. not far from the campus in the 700 block of Richmond Road near the corner of Dillard Street. According to Williamsburg City Police, the student was walking south on Richmond Road when he was approached from behind by two individuals on bicycles. One of the suspects pushed the student into a bush, displayed a handgun and removed cash from the student’s wallet. Both suspects then left the scene and the student returned home and immediately called police. Thankfully, the student was not physically injured in the incident. Staff members in the Dean of Students Office are reaching out to the student involved to provide him with additional support and resources.

    According to police, the suspects were both wearing dark clothing and hooded sweatshirts pulled down over their eyes. They were both described as tall, approximately 6’0” to 6’2” in height. The suspect with the handgun was described as weighing approximately 220 to 250 pounds with a deep voice and southern accent. The race of the suspects is not known. Local law enforcement officials have asked for any help we can give in apprehending the suspect(s). Should you have information that may assist them, please call the Crime Line at 1-888-Lock-U-Up.

    We think of the Williamsburg community as a safe place. And relatively speaking, it is. What happened early this morning, however, is an unfortunate reminder that even in a community as special as ours, crimes can and do occur. There may be nothing we can do to fully insulate ourselves from the reality of crime in our world. At the same time, this is a good time to remember that there are measures we can and should take to increase our level of personal safety. First, please be aware of your surroundings, both on and off campus. When venturing out after dark, it is helpful to travel with friends or call ESCORT (221-3293) for a safe walk/ride. And, as the student in this case did, call the police immediately if something happens to you or if you see suspicious activity -- on campus or off, use 911.

    I know you share my sense of gratitude that our student is unharmed. Let us all continue to watch out for one another.

    Ginger Ambler

    Virginia Miller Ambler, Ph.D.
    Vice President for Student Affairs
    College of William and Mary
    Williamsburg, VA 23187-8795
    (757) 221-1236

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    If you don't have a big gun in Williamsburg, have one made!
    Big guns save W&M lives at W&M!

    Last edited by peter nap; 01-27-2011 at 11:55 AM.

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    While the student may have been able to shoot from the ground, and get one of the BGs, there is a stronger possiblilty that there would have been a "gunfight". Obvious the student was not doing a basic tenent of life after dark. HAVE SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. Even when, actually especially when you have a handgun, you need to pay attention to what is going on around you. For us old squids, it's called head on a swivel.
    Please, before all lash out and shoot me in the face for my foot in my mouth...I am all for what we do, and our liberties, but there is no replacement for taking care of yourself.
    Also, just being mugged in itself is not justifiable for a discharge. Getting a butt whooping in a bar brawl isn't either. (In general). Any time that weapon comes from it's holster, you will be justifying it. The people I have read on here that really don't listen to, or get what the Grapeshots, and skidmarks are saying about, "Well I'll just kill them" for any infraction against them, are going to be in a world of hurt after a questionable shoot. Remember, anything you say can and will be used against you. The rapper that was shot out in LA is an example. They used his thug/gansta lyrics against him.

    I'm just saying. Please, respect each other's rights, and keep fighting for all we can.
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    He's lucky he was only robbed instead of robbed and then murdered. Or robbed, defiled, tortured and murdered.

    You never know. The only equalizer? Being armed.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
    While the student may have been able to shoot from the ground, and get one of the BGs, there is a stronger possiblilty that there would have been a "gunfight". Obvious the student was not doing a basic tenent of life after dark. HAVE SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. Even when, actually especially when you have a handgun, you need to pay attention to what is going on around you. For us old squids, it's called head on a swivel.
    Please, before all lash out and shoot me in the face for my foot in my mouth...I am all for what we do, and our liberties, but there is no replacement for taking care of yourself.
    Also, just being mugged in itself is not justifiable for a discharge. Getting a butt whooping in a bar brawl isn't either. (In general). Any time that weapon comes from it's holster, you will be justifying it. The people I have read on here that really don't listen to, or get what the Grapeshots, and skidmarks are saying about, "Well I'll just kill them" for any infraction against them, are going to be in a world of hurt after a questionable shoot. Remember, anything you say can and will be used against.
    All joking aside, I agree completely...but, if you go back and read about the Cho shooting, you'll see that not everyone does.

    The concept is an old one:

    Draw me not without reason
    Sheath me not without honor.

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    I do wish sometimes we could get the WHOLE story on these. Was it a "lil girl", or was it a drunk dude walking back? As I said before, SA goes a long way toward a resolution that is in favor of me. Two knuckleheads on a bike? Stand aside, and pretend to let them go by, until they become more of a threat. Good chance I can shoulder check 'em and then who has the upper hand while they are getting off their butts tangled together? I'll be ready, will they?
    I'm all for weapons to "the kids on campus", but if they are gonna do it, I hope they do it right.
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

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    Red Dawg, I didn't share this story with the intention of saying that this situation would have turned out differently had this individual been armed; rather it highlights the fact that university officials create a class of people who are effectively unable to arm themselves. Criminals are reasonably sure that a young person around Williamsburg is a student, and therefore very likely to be unarmed.

    I pass by that exact spot late at night 3-4 times a week, but school rules keep me from carrying because the campus police enforce school policy on streets adjacent to campus in addition to the campus itself. Since I rely on a bike I cannot skirt around campus because my only other routes would put me miles out of the way and onto a section of a state highway where bicycles are prohibited (route 199). Though the school rules only apply on campus, they have effectively disarmed me most of the time that I spend in the City of Williamsburg.

    Last semester a group of students was robbed at gunpoint near their apartment. Two of those students happened to be good friends of mine. William and Mary is one of the "safer" college campuses in Virginia, but these incidents show show that Norfolk and Richmond are not the only places where these things happen.

  8. #8
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
    I do wish sometimes we could get the WHOLE story on these. Was it a "lil girl", or was it a drunk dude walking back?
    Does their mental state preclude their right to self defense?

    I say "No".
    Quote Originally Posted by mpd8488 View Post
    it highlights the fact that university officials create a class of people who are effectively unable to arm themselves. Criminals are reasonably sure that a young person around Williamsburg is a student, and therefore very likely to be unarmed.
    And similar rules apply at almost EVERY university in the Commonwealth.

    I reference the numerous reports on the ODUALERT of which I receive about one a week regarding some student (or other citizen) being attacked, mugged, robbed or assaulted on or near the campus.

    I would prefer to accept the consequences of being dismissed (or expelled, were I a student) than the potential alternative should I go about unarmed and be that one unlucky person that one particular evening.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpd8488 View Post
    Red Dawg, I didn't share this story with the intention of saying that this situation would have turned out differently had this individual been armed; rather it highlights the fact that university officials create a class of people who are effectively unable to arm themselves. Criminals are reasonably sure that a young person around Williamsburg is a student, and therefore very likely to be unarmed.

    I pass by that exact spot late at night 3-4 times a week, but school rules keep me from carrying because the campus police enforce school policy on streets adjacent to campus in addition to the campus itself. Since I rely on a bike I cannot skirt around campus because my only other routes would put me miles out of the way and onto a section of a state highway where bicycles are prohibited (route 199). Though the school rules only apply on campus, they have effectively disarmed me most of the time that I spend in the City of Williamsburg.

    Last semester a group of students was robbed at gunpoint near their apartment. Two of those students happened to be good friends of mine. William and Mary is one of the "safer" college campuses in Virginia, but these incidents show show that Norfolk and Richmond are not the only places where these things happen.
    The school does put you at a disadvantage. Your only real option would be to carry CC in violation of school policy. That is an awesome burden to weigh against being ejected from school (which is probably the biggest stepping stone you will have in your life)

    As opposed to not carrying in a relatively safe environment.
    If I recall, there was a shooting in the Outlet mall last summer, so not completely safe.

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    Sorry mpd....

    mpd: Please, accept my applogies if you think I don't agree, and fully understand what you say. I do agree you have the RIGHT to be armed. Period. 2A is all of OUR friend. My only point, and I was kind of being devils advocate for a sec, was I hope that every student that uses their right is of the caliber that I think we are. We are here learning from each other. I caution to say of the regulars that are posting on here, 1000s of rounds go through the pipe in training and preparation. Years of training for the most part. Yes, we all had to start somewhere. But all I am saying is once you get the full rights afforded, please take it serious. Actually not you in particular, but I think you get me on this one.
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post

    Draw me not without reason
    Sheath me not without honor.
    'No me saques sin razon; no me enbaines sin honor.'

    Tradition of so inscribing swords started by the Spanish in the 1800s has endured today with many of our military officer's swords.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Tradition of so inscribing swords started by the Spanish in the 1800s has endured today with many of our military officer's swords.
    I wish I had a good shot of my father's Cadet saber from VT, but I think he gave it to my brother when he joined the Guard and got his commission.

    It was absolutely beautiful.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    My great grandfather's cavalry saber, a Kentucky rifle and one each Army and Navy pistols "disappeared" the day my grandfather passed away. So much for wills.

    Back OT - I would really like to hear valid attempts made at why students and faculty are disarmed. Not why some "think" or "feel" as they do, but logical facts, numerically supported reasons. Without the "feel good" platitudes, they are left holding an empty basket of excuses.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Back OT - I would really like to hear valid attempts made at why students and faculty are disarmed. Not why some "think" or "feel" as they do, but logical facts, numerically supported reasons. Without the "feel good" platitudes, they are left holding an empty basket of excuses.
    Never gonna happen, chief.

    There are no numbers. There is no logic. There is only fear. Fear of "scary" guns.

    Guns on the whole remind those predisposed to fear that there are things to be afraid of. They are much more comfortable with their heads in the sand than acknowledging that there is evil in the world and it does not care about law or policy or your personal opinion on self-defense.

    If you do not defend yourself, the likelihood of someone else defending you is very slim. If you do not defend yourself and no one else is available to defend you, when you become a victim of a crime the ONLY tool left in your toolbox is prayer.

    I wonder how many agnostics have had a change of heart while staring down the barrel of a .44?

    But one thing which can be almost guaranteed. If you you do not defend yourself and no one else is around to defend you, the police will eventually be informed of your incident and will investigate your assault/robbery/rape/murder. Perhaps they will catch the criminal and your family will get to experience what is commonly referred to as "closure".

    Or maybe they won't.

    The surest way to find out is to go about unarmed.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
    mpd: Please, accept my applogies if you think I don't agree, and fully understand what you say. I do agree you have the RIGHT to be armed. Period. 2A is all of OUR friend. My only point, and I was kind of being devils advocate for a sec, was I hope that every student that uses their right is of the caliber that I think we are. We are here learning from each other. I caution to say of the regulars that are posting on here, 1000s of rounds go through the pipe in training and preparation. Years of training for the most part. Yes, we all had to start somewhere. But all I am saying is once you get the full rights afforded, please take it serious. Actually not you in particular, but I think you get me on this one.
    There is never anything wrong with advocating training and situational awareness. Please just consider that the antis frequently use the excuse that college students are young and frequently binge drink as arguments for why there should be blanket weapons bans on campus. Let's just be careful not give their arguments any traction within the gun rights community.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpd8488 View Post
    Please just consider that the antis frequently use the excuse that college students are young
    Though they have no trouble arming them and sending them halfway around the world in exercises of nation-building under fire.

    Pretty twisted double standard if you ask me.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpd8488 View Post
    There is never anything wrong with advocating training and situational awareness. Please just consider that the antis frequently use the excuse that college students are young and frequently binge drink as arguments for why there should be blanket weapons bans on campus. Let's just be careful not give their arguments any traction within the gun rights community.
    Geeze, I spent 20 minutes arguing almost the same thing with Lori Haas last evening. She's convinced that every gun owner is a potential drunk and every potential drunk is a potential raging maniac.

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    Guys/gals, trust me. My son is 19 and in the Army. I know what he would be like on Campus instead of on the battlefield. He would be like, I presume, Wylde, and mpd. Yes, I know Wylde is instructing, but their rights are no different, as USCITS.
    He would be on the wall protecting those that need to be protected. (USMC Jack Nicolson, Few Good Men)
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    Every Car owner is a potential drunk driver. That crap don't fly.
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

  20. #20
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
    Every Car owner is a potential drunk driver. That crap don't fly.
    And every woman a potential prostitute.

    Just because one is equipped for the crime does not automatically invoke criminal proclivities or predilections.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpd8488 View Post
    There is never anything wrong with advocating training and situational awareness. Please just consider that the antis frequently use the excuse that college students are young and frequently binge drink as arguments for why there should be blanket weapons bans on campus. Let's just be careful not give their arguments any traction within the gun rights community.
    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Though they have no trouble arming them and sending them halfway around the world in exercises of nation-building under fire.

    Pretty twisted double standard if you ask me.
    18 or less for military, 18 to OC, 21 for a permit - thank you for your service, but not in my neighborhood, you are too immature and irresponsible.

    A legal gun owner/carrier must act responsibly and by stepping one foot (literally) onto campus they become irresponsible drunks whose maturity is ratcheted back a couple of notches - right?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  22. #22
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    18 or less for military
    I believe 17 if you have a special exemption and parental "permission".

    I believe the exemption is "high school diploma" though I am not certain. I was never recruited very aggressively. Go figure.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    I was never recruited very aggressively. Go figure.
    By whom?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    By whom?
    By, well... anybody.

    Hmm. Seems to have worked out OK for me... so far.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  25. #25
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    So, if as a 38-year old veteran, I decide to go back to college, I have to be lumped in with adults who just left home for the first time and must be treated like children? So I must be disarmed because of someone elses poor behavior and another's unhealthy fear of guns?

    This is why this arbitrary rule needs to go away.

    This isn't a new revelation for me, just stating the obvious for those who believe that college student = ages 18-21.

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