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Thread: SB-59 (Move CPL issuance to SOS)

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Exclamation SB-59 (Move CPL issuance to SOS)

    The problem with this bill is the same problem I had getting my CPL.The CPL board tried to use MCL 28.425b,7n (Issuing a license to the applicant to carry a concealed pistol in this state is not detrimental to the safety of the applicant or to any other individual).Thats as vague as a 99' law that states (a person who has had 2 drinking and driving convictions in a 10 year period must drive with an interlock device for 365 days).You would think that means "in the last 10 years",yet when I appealed at SOS for my license in 05' they went back to 92' & 94' to get 2 in 10.Thats 13 years.The CPL board tried to use this also,even though I was beyond the 3 & 8 year list in the law by using the vague attachments to the MCL above.
    It's important that we make sure any law is written without any vagueness that the government(judges,DA's,police) can use against the citizens,who then need money to hire lawyers etc. etc.!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    So we'd get one big poorly run and very corrupt government agency to deal with instead of a bunch of small poorly run and often corrupt agencies.

    Arizona had it better than us when they still required permits. Take a picture, and within several minutes you had the license in your hand. Same as they still do with drivers licenses. Anything short of that I'll likely not get excited over.
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    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    Will our new Masters have lighter chains?
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarineSgt View Post
    Will our new Masters have lighter chains?
    YES a titanium alloy, lighter but STRONG than the old ones.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  5. #5
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Question

    I had to show 14 years of sobriety on paper for my CPL yet the SOS has only given me driving "privileges" from 6am to 7pm,with 1 appeal per year.I'll have to pay several hundred bucks to jump through the hoops again this spring.I'm safe to carry a gun for defense but not to drive at night!DUH!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    I had to show 14 years of sobriety on paper for my CPL yet the SOS has only given me driving "privileges" from 6am to 7pm,with 1 appeal per year.I'll have to pay several hundred bucks to jump through the hoops again this spring.I'm safe to carry a gun for defense but not to drive at night!DUH!
    well, when you get 2 drunk driving convictions you lose some privileges. you're lucky you didn't kill someone while drunk driving, you could be appealing your prison sentence instead of your driving privileges. .

  7. #7
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    well, when you get 2 drunk driving convictions you lose some privileges. you're lucky you didn't kill someone while drunk driving, you could be appealing your prison sentence instead of your driving privileges. .
    If you've ever had 3 beers in a one hour period and drove,you would be guilty too!Luck has nothing to do with it. I would put my last 14 years up against anyone,0 alcoholic drinks,and 38 years of shooting,0 killed.Judge not unless you be judged!This is a point on written law,not shoulda coulda woulda!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

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    I'm going to have to agree with detroit_fan. If I ever become a repeat offender when it comes to drunk driving, I would hope the SoS would make me jump through hoops to get behind the wheel again. The convenience of drunks to get their license isn't something I'm excited to support. However, with that said, I think there's plenty room for forgiveness for those that do change, especially after 14 years. Hope everything works out hamaneggs.

    I like the idea of moving CPL issuance to the SoS. All we need is some government entity to run a background check, make sure the info on the form is accurate, and then hand out a card. It's one step closer to no CPL at all, I guess.

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    I'm going to have to agree with detroit_fan. If I ever become a repeat offender when it comes to drunk driving, I would hope the SoS would make me jump through hoops to get behind the wheel again. The convenience of drunks to get their license isn't something I'm excited to support. However, with that said, I think there's plenty room for forgiveness for those that do change, especially after 14 years. Hope everything works out hamaneggs.

    I like the idea of moving CPL issuance to the SoS. All we need is some government entity to run a background check, make sure the info on the form is accurate, and then hand out a card. It's one step closer to no CPL at all, I guess.
    Vague laws are my point.In 02' I went to a MADD panel,heard a young man speak.In 97' he had gone to a casino,left around 3am,at 3:30am he rammed a man in a Fiero at a red light with his truck,killing him. He said he spent 1 year in jail and finally got his license back.Thats 5 years.The 99' law that I'm under is the same one he was under.Vague laws allow feelings to rule,not facts.When the government rules by feelings,thats trouble to freedom!

    My point is do we allow this so called "shall issue" law,as it is written now,go under SOS control with 28.425b,7n as it is.
    Doing away with CPL and instituting constitutional carry is certainly the goal.It's getting caught up in the system(government control) that is the problem until then.
    Last edited by hamaneggs; 01-29-2011 at 05:03 PM.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    for the people who are beyond reproach, this is going to be a good thing. we will probably get a CPL that a clever 13 year old could not reproduce. also... no gun board. the gun board is a waste of taxpayer dollars. that money should go to making sure the mentally ill do not get CPLs.

  11. #11
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Please, let's not let this thread digress off topic about DUI's and personal attacks -- nor self-loathing.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    SOS is better than gun boards, IMO.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    SOS is better than gun boards, IMO.
    Even if you get a speeding ticket and they use MCL 28.425,7n and determine you are "detrimental to the safety of the applicant or to any other individual",as they do have the power to interpret the law?
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    Vague laws are my point.In 02' I went to a MADD panel,heard a young man speak.In 97' he had gone to a casino,left around 3am,at 3:30am he rammed a man in a Fiero at a red light with his truck,killing him. He said he spent 1 year in jail and finally got his license back.Thats 5 years.The 99' law that I'm under is the same one he was under.Vague laws allow feelings to rule,not facts.When the government rules by feelings,thats trouble to freedom!

    My point is do we allow this so called "shall issue" law,as it is written now,go under SOS control with 28.425b,7n as it is.
    Doing away with CPL and instituting constitutional carry is certainly the goal.It's getting caught up in the system(government control) that is the problem until then.
    Some of us leave MI on a regular basis, so to be honest constitutional carry is very low on MY priority list. I and anybody else that leaves MI for work or whatever reason would still need a CPL so, again I see people pushing against each other and everybody will lose.

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    Some of us leave MI on a regular basis, so to be honest constitutional carry is very low on MY priority list. I and anybody else that leaves MI for work or whatever reason would still need a CPL so, again I see people pushing against each other and everybody will lose.
    Idealy we would get it like Alaska and Arizona, and you could still get a CPL from the state, for travel and alike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    Idealy we would get it like Alaska and Arizona, and you could still get a CPL from the state, for travel and alike.
    I can carry in MI with my CPL in more places then a person in AZ with constitutional carry. Becareful what you wish for.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    Even if you get a speeding ticket and they use MCL 28.425,7n and determine you are "detrimental to the safety of the applicant or to any other individual",as they do have the power to interpret the law?
    Thats a bit of a stretch? And 2 DUI"S isn't the same as a speeding ticket. And where in the MCL's would a speeding ticket get your CPL revoked removed or denied?


    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    Some of us leave MI on a regular basis, so to be honest constitutional carry is very low on MY priority list. I and anybody else that leaves MI for work or whatever reason would still need a CPL so, again I see people pushing against each other and everybody will lose.
    Agreed!

    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    Idealy we would get it like Alaska and Arizona, and you could still get a CPL from the state, for travel and alike.
    But do you really want to risk that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    I can carry in MI with my CPL in more places then a person in AZ with constitutional carry. Becareful what you wish for.
    Or this? We have it pretty good, a few small changes and it would be just about perfect.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    And Ham I am not trying to be insulting. Just stating the facts as I know them, about your particular history. And I agree they gave you a bad deal, and used the MCL in a maybe incorrect way.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    And Ham I am not trying to be insulting. Just stating the facts as I know them, about your particular history. And I agree they gave you a bad deal, and used the MCL in a maybe incorrect way.
    I see no insult,just coversation.The ticket stretch is only in regards to vague laws being construed to mean what those in the gov(SOS,CPL board) say they mean.It went well beyond the 3&8 year list,and they used 28.425b 7n.I payed for a lawyer and still had to present evidence to pass their judgement,which in 2 0f 3 members words up to that point were "we don't feel safe allowing you to carry in public"!Has any government employee said that to your face in front of your lawyer?
    Same thing with SOS and a vague law.Full driving priviledges put off for another year plus several hundred bucks to appeal for the fourth time.Killer 5 years full license.Sober alcoholic 14 years,still waiting.Vague laws depend on who is in power.Are we in power?NOT!But we have the power to fight for the freedoms we know that are due us if we make sure the laws printed say what WE mean them to say! I say return our gun laws back to 1900 and keep the amendments as is!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    I see no insult,just coversation.The ticket stretch is only in regards to vague laws being construed to mean what those in the gov(SOS,CPL board) say they mean.It went well beyond the 3&8 year list,and they used 28.425b 7n.I payed for a lawyer and still had to present evidence to pass their judgement,which in 2 0f 3 members words up to that point were "we don't feel safe allowing you to carry in public"!Has any government employee said that to your face in front of your lawyer?
    Same thing with SOS and a vague law.Full driving priviledges put off for another year plus several hundred bucks to appeal for the fourth time.Killer 5 years full license.Sober alcoholic 14 years,still waiting.Vague laws depend on who is in power.Are we in power?NOT!But we have the power to fight for the freedoms we know that are due us if we make sure the laws printed say what WE mean them to say! I say return our gun laws back to 1900 and keep the amendments as is!
    Which one was on your side? Not that it matters a whole lot but my curiosity has gotten the better of me.

    And IMO SOS is all about the money, they will drag it out for as long as they can. Or until you decide to screw the system and get caught driving after curfew. Then more money and a vague way to go about getting your "full" license back. Or you hire a lawyer and force them to give it back. But its all about the money.

    Why can't you bring this before a Judge? If your past is the way you say it is then I don't see a judge not letting you drive. Hell they let you carry a gun! IMO that is saying "yup we trust this guy with a gun,,,,,IN PUBLIC!!" Use there own argument against them!
    Last edited by NHCGRPR45; 02-01-2011 at 04:27 AM. Reason: angry fingers
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    I'd rather not have to have the government permission slip to carry thank you very much.

  22. #22
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    Which one was on your side? Not that it matters a whole lot but my curiosity has gotten the better of me.

    And IMO SOS is all about the money, they will drag it out for as long as they can. Or until you decide to screw the system and get caught driving after curfew. Then more money and a vague way to go about getting your "full" license back. Or you hire a lawyer and force them to give it back. But its all about the money.

    Why csn't yoi bring this before a Judge? If your past is the way you say it is then I don't see a judge not letting you drive. Hell they let you carry a gun! IMO that is saying "yup we trust this guy with a gun,,,,,IN PUBLIC!!" Use there own argument against them!
    MSP was on my side.
    SOS( the system) is about the money.A lawyer can't force them,they have the power to decide written into the law.
    On the other hand a Curcuit Court Judge($1000+) can give you a license(been there done that before my second appeal).If I can afford it after my next appeal(if no full restoration by SOS) I might have to go that way again.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raspberrysurprise View Post
    i'd rather not have to have the government permission slip to carry thank you very much.
    ditto!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Well use some of the cash warren gives you to finance you SOS fight. You might get the money from them around the time your next hearing with them pops up. Just a thought.
    Last edited by NHCGRPR45; 02-01-2011 at 04:52 AM.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaspberrySurprise View Post
    I'd rather not have to have the government permission slip to carry thank you very much.
    You already have that in place Article 1 section 6. The only permission needed to to carry concealed and a whole multitude of places were the above does not apply. It sucks but its being worked on as we speak. And as long as NICS and registration is in effect For that matter FFL's the 68 Gun legislation and host of other garbage on the books permission is what you have.
    Last edited by NHCGRPR45; 02-01-2011 at 04:41 AM.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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