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Thread: LEO issues

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    LEO issues

    hello, iv'e been reading the forums for a while and came to the conclusion that many of the users have some sort of problem with LEO's. Almost as if there is a resentment towards them. Is this true, if so why?

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
    hello, iv'e been reading the forums for a while and came to the conclusion that many of the users have some sort of problem with LEO's. Almost as if there is a resentment towards them. Is this true, if so why?
    No. A year and a half carrying in the open with no issues with LEO (thanks to gray, deros, spydertattoo, mainsail, triggerdr, et al)

    No. No resentment, no animosity, nothing...

    I have a healthy regard for LEO....

    I also have a healthy regard for myself, the truth and my way of life...

    Therefore, I am cautious around LEO, naturally suspicious of there behavior and motive.
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    I am probably speaking out of turn here but here it goes anyway.

    Most of us don't have a problem with the LEOs per se, it is a problem with having the people who swore to uphold and defend our rights, then knowingly violate them with regards to the legal open carry of firearms among other things. There it is in a nutshell.

    I completely 'second' GoGo's post.
    Last edited by Vandal; 01-27-2011 at 07:59 PM.

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    oh, ok. gotcha. It just seemed like since a few cops messed up terribly, people think all cops are bad. but...it makes sense the way you put it

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    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    I dont' think the "problem" is with LEOs in particular. The problem is with anyone in a position of "authority" who acts based on an understanding that OC is not allowed under the law when we know they are wrong. This includes store clerks and managers, bus drivers, city councils, county commissioners, park boards, library boards, private security guards and, yes, LEOs. It is more aggravating when we know that they know better, or at least that they should. LEOs fall into that category.
    Last edited by Lammo; 01-27-2011 at 08:10 PM. Reason: Original reply confusing
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    Big Red, Welcome to the forum. It is always nice to get more people to OC. Don't be shy in attending some of the get-togethers. We're all just average 'Joes'......except me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lammo View Post
    I dont' think the "problem" is with LEOs in particular. The problem is with anyone in a position of "authority" who acts based on an understanding that OC is not allowed under the law when we know they are wrong. This includes store clerks and managers, bus drivers, city councils, county commissioners, park boards, library boards, private security guards and, yes, LEOs. It is more aggravating when we know that they know better, or at least that they should. LEOs fall into that category.
    But it's only cops who occasionally point guns at and/or arrest OCers.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    What Lammo & Gogo said.

    Also keep in mind, only the bad news gets reported. Even the "OC reports" have been pretty slow of late, no one really wants to read pages of "walked around with my gun all day, no one cared." The infuriating LEO accounts you see on here are the exception, rather than the rule, so that's what gets mentioned. And some folks on here have had repeated negative encounters, understandably that does something to one's mindset.

    Myself, I've never had an encounter with a LEO ('cept maybe when my wife & I got pulled over, & he either didn't notice or didn't care). Only had one really negative non-LEO encounter. Heck, today my ride got more comments than my firearm
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    I have no problem with LEOs. I have a problem with abuse of power.
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    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    I have issues with anyone who thinks they can force their opinions on others so that they "feel safer"
    I have issues with anyone who thinks they can force their opinions on others so that they "feel more comfortable"
    I have issues with anyone who thinks their safety is more important than mine.
    I have issues with anyone who thinks their opinions trump mine.
    I have issues with anyone who believes their beliefs are superior to mine.
    I have issues with anyone who believes they don't need "Insert any topic" so nobody else does either.
    I have issues with anyone who ignores and violates the Law, the constitution, and training or department policies
    I have issues with anyone who can legally rob at gunpoint, assault, detain, and file charges on innocent people costing thousands to defend, all while not facing a single ramification for their actions.
    If an LEO fits in that list, then I have an issue with them. If an individual fits into that list, then I have an issue with them. I don't discriminate based on a job title.
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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    I only have issues with LEOs who act, or allow fellow officers to act, outside the scope of their authority.

    As far as my experiences go, that's a very tiny minority, but hey...who talks or reports about a non-event? I see, walk by, speak to, or interact with LEOs almost every day, so for all intent and purposes, everyone who reads this should take every day that I personally don't report a bad encounter with an LEO as a day that I had one or more good or "not bad" encounters with an LEO.

    Nuff said I think.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Leo

    I'm 20+ years military and have no problems with LEO's. There are bad apples in LEO, military, ems, ect. So I don't blame a profession, I only blame the individuals that do wrong while representing their particular profession. Unfortunately we only hear about the bad ones (Cue Dirty Laundry song).
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    I'm 20+ years military and have no problems with LEO's. There are bad apples in LEO, military, ems, ect. So I don't blame a profession, I only blame the individuals that do wrong while representing their particular profession. Unfortunately we only hear about the bad ones (Cue Dirty Laundry song).
    Excellent post

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
    oh, ok. gotcha. It just seemed like since a few cops messed up terribly, people think all cops are bad. but...it makes sense the way you put it
    I'll admit my bias, HOWEVER, I treat every officer with respect until proven otherwise.

    I've been threatened with death, held at gunpoint twice, had made up charges filed against me, threatened with (false) arrest multiple times, and otherwise shat upon... all by 'officers' upholding the law... All while minding my own business, committing no crimes (one time I was taking a picture of an unmarked car in an empty parking lot, officer threatened me with arrest for disorderly conduct if I didn't delete the picture)

    Now, out of the 20 or so LEO contacts I've had out here, I've only had one that really irked me the wrong way (PCSO detained me for OC, officer said he'd take my gun if he saw me again and I didn't 'register' it..).. All the other interactions were very polite.

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    I'm glad Big Red asked this question. While I don't detect any anti-law enforcement sentiment on this thread, I have seen threads in the past with that very sentiment - years ago this was.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    I'll admit my bias, HOWEVER, I treat every officer with respect until proven otherwise.

    I've been threatened with death, held at gunpoint twice, had made up charges filed against me, threatened with (false) arrest multiple times, and otherwise shat upon... all by 'officers' upholding the law... All while minding my own business, committing no crimes (one time I was taking a picture of an unmarked car in an empty parking lot, officer threatened me with arrest for disorderly conduct if I didn't delete the picture)

    Now, out of the 20 or so LEO contacts I've had out here, I've only had one that really irked me the wrong way (PCSO detained me for OC, officer said he'd take my gun if he saw me again and I didn't 'register' it..).. All the other interactions were very polite.
    Wait... don't you sell lights & radios & such to (I would assume) LEAs?
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
    hello, iv'e been reading the forums for a while and came to the conclusion that many of the users have some sort of problem with LEO's. Almost as if there is a resentment towards them. Is this true, if so why?
    Its pretty simple in my opinion.

    Maybe for the same reason that some have a problem with liberals. LEOs are a group that has members within it that are out obstructing others from freely exercising their constitutional rights sometimes in very rude and unlawful ways. In my cases, organized LE is an active threat to the 2nd Amendment. Though as with liberals, there are still many individuals within LE that do support the rights of gun owners and carriers, but as with liberals, they tend to be catagorized with broad generalizations.

    There is a reason that LEOs turn up in the discussions on gun issues and freedoms more so than bakers, pastors or newspaper delivery boys. There are reasons as to why some people aren't happy with their stance, opinions and actions in regards to the carry and ownership of firearms just like they aren't happy with the Brady Campaign, WAVE and many liberal politicians who actively work against their rights under the 2nd amendment. Its because LE are out there in the community acting against those who are legally carrying as well as lobbying politicians to restrict access, rights to carry, and ownership of firearms to a certain degree.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    I'll admit my bias, HOWEVER, I treat every officer with respect until proven otherwise.

    I've been threatened with death, held at gunpoint twice, had made up charges filed against me, threatened with (false) arrest multiple times, and otherwise shat upon... all by 'officers' upholding the law... All while minding my own business, committing no crimes (one time I was taking a picture of an unmarked car in an empty parking lot, officer threatened me with arrest for disorderly conduct if I didn't delete the picture)

    Now, out of the 20 or so LEO contacts I've had out here, I've only had one that really irked me the wrong way (PCSO detained me for OC, officer said he'd take my gun if he saw me again and I didn't 'register' it..).. All the other interactions were very polite.
    Your First and Second Paragraph do not add up.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
    hello, iv'e been reading the forums for a while and came to the conclusion that many of the users have some sort of problem with LEO's. Almost as if there is a resentment towards them. Is this true, if so why?
    There are a hand full of people on here, not the majority that paint a very poor picture on law enforcement, do not let it sway you into taking an encounter upon its own merits.
    You may also notice the ones who have a negative outlook seem to have an abundant amount of contacts with law enforcement and it does make one wonder why.
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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Wait... don't you sell lights & radios & such to (I would assume) LEAs?
    Personal interactions are different from professional interactions. I've seen both sides. I don't pull rank, if an officer is gonna be a dumbass, I'll let him.. I'll call my contacts later.

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Your First and Second Paragraph do not add up.
    Most of the interactions (being threatened with death, false arrest, etc) were before I moved out here.... Most of the issues happened back there...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    No. A year and a half carrying in the open with no issues with LEO (thanks to gray, deros, spydertattoo, mainsail, triggerdr, et al)

    No. No resentment, no animosity, nothing...

    I have a healthy regard for LEO....

    I also have a healthy regard for myself, the truth and my way of life...

    Therefore, I am cautious around LEO, naturally suspicious of there behavior and motive.
    Thanks for the kind word GoGo.Put m1gunr,triggrdoc,squeak...well maybe not squeak and many others in addition to yourself.
    I have had no major issues with LE at all either in the I think 3 years I've been involved in this.I to am cautious like GoGo .But it still harks back to an individuals demeanor as well.BElieve me we are visible and they do know who we are.This past weekend at the gunshow as I previously mentioned ,the chaplin for the Des Moinse police said because of Toms Starbucks encounter and ensueing publicity they leave us alone.He knew who I was because I'm so visible in this area and also asked if we ever had any problems with their officers.I had to tell him no because they have been great.I know there are some LE out there that really do support our right and I'm sure there are those that would really mess you up if they thought they could get away with it.

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    Im a LEO in NYS, which, you all know, has the dumbest gun laws going. Everyone needs to remember that LEO's only enforce the laws. Its the politicians that the voters elect, that make the laws. I don't agree with every law in the state, but I have a job to do, and I want to do it well, so i follow orders. I think that is all it really comes down to with most LEO's. We just want to do a good job at work, we take pride in the job that we do, just like everyone else.........
    Last edited by ronmanci; 01-28-2011 at 02:04 AM.

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Personall I think it is LE's obligation to tell these politicians you will not enforce unconstitutional laws.You are sworn to unhold the Constitution not the wims of anti gun liberal politicians.As you must know we here can carry most everywhere.I talked with a guy from NY the other day that was amazed because he said we be thrown to the ground and arrested in NY for that.We openly carry in banks,downtown ,resturants and many others and we need LE to stop kissing up to these anti gun ,liberal anti constitution politicians.Its not there right or the voters or anyone else's right to tell me I can't carry.I have as many here one to war,paid my taxes been a law abiding citizen all my life and no tells me I can't exersise a God give Constitutional right to protect myself.We have even had 2 major supreme court decisions reafirming an individuals right to bear arms.
    So I think we need law LE to go after real criminals instead of pushing around law abiding citizens because its easier. for something they have a right to do.Inspite of what some elected politician says.As for registration etc,it's no ones damn business who owns firearms or how many.Most of us own more than one.

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