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LEO issues

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DEROS72

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No. A year and a half carrying in the open with no issues with LEO (thanks to gray, deros, spydertattoo, mainsail, triggerdr, et al)

No. No resentment, no animosity, nothing...

I have a healthy regard for LEO....

I also have a healthy regard for myself, the truth and my way of life...

Therefore, I am cautious around LEO, naturally suspicious of there behavior and motive.

Thanks for the kind word GoGo.Put m1gunr,triggrdoc,squeak...well maybe not squeak :p and many others in addition to yourself.
I have had no major issues with LE at all either in the I think 3 years I've been involved in this.I to am cautious like GoGo .But it still harks back to an individuals demeanor as well.BElieve me we are visible and they do know who we are.This past weekend at the gunshow as I previously mentioned ,the chaplin for the Des Moinse police said because of Toms Starbucks encounter and ensueing publicity they leave us alone.He knew who I was because I'm so visible in this area and also asked if we ever had any problems with their officers.I had to tell him no because they have been great.I know there are some LE out there that really do support our right and I'm sure there are those that would really mess you up if they thought they could get away with it.
 

Dave_pro2a

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Never talk to the police. It's a stacked deck, or as the kids say these days "It's a TRAP!"

its_a_trap.jpg
 

ronmanci

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Im a LEO in NYS, which, you all know, has the dumbest gun laws going. Everyone needs to remember that LEO's only enforce the laws. Its the politicians that the voters elect, that make the laws. I don't agree with every law in the state, but I have a job to do, and I want to do it well, so i follow orders. I think that is all it really comes down to with most LEO's. We just want to do a good job at work, we take pride in the job that we do, just like everyone else.........
 
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DEROS72

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Personall I think it is LE's obligation to tell these politicians you will not enforce unconstitutional laws.You are sworn to unhold the Constitution not the wims of anti gun liberal politicians.As you must know we here can carry most everywhere.I talked with a guy from NY the other day that was amazed because he said we be thrown to the ground and arrested in NY for that.We openly carry in banks,downtown ,resturants and many others and we need LE to stop kissing up to these anti gun ,liberal anti constitution politicians.Its not there right or the voters or anyone else's right to tell me I can't carry.I have as many here one to war,paid my taxes been a law abiding citizen all my life and no tells me I can't exersise a God give Constitutional right to protect myself.We have even had 2 major supreme court decisions reafirming an individuals right to bear arms.
So I think we need law LE to go after real criminals instead of pushing around law abiding citizens because its easier. for something they have a right to do.Inspite of what some elected politician says.As for registration etc,it's no ones damn business who owns firearms or how many.Most of us own more than one.

Here again ..in case you haven't seen it.
 

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ronmanci

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I have a family to feed just like everyone else. I can't quit my job and start over as a security guard and still expect to be able to send my three kids to college. Its just a job, and enforcing the laws that the politicians make is just my job description. That is the extent of the LEO's role. Your anger is misplaced. Like I stated before, the folks making all these dumb laws are being elected. You should blame the politicians or maybe even the voters. Im just doing my job. A lot of folks have jobs they don't love, but they have obligations, and they have pride, so they do what they have to.
 
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DEROS72

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That's a familiar sounding phrase.

Thats one of those spineless copout mentalities .I suppose if some politician told you to kick down doors because of a BS emergency and confiscate peoples guns like NEw Orleans you would just follow orders.You are supposed to serve the public not the politicians.
 
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The Patriot

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Personall I think it is a LE's obligation to tell these politicians you will not enforce unconstitutional laws.You are sworn to unhold the Constitution not the wims of anti gun liberal politicians.

AMEN!!!

The Constitution is the fabric that we should be living by...but over the past 50+ years that has been changing. There are new regulatory committees that are able to make changes to how we live and breath and they do these things outside the Constitution.

This is power that needs to be taken away from the President.

The way this happens is for the House of Representatives to de-fund the way that these beaurocrats get paid. That will end it. The President, present and future will not be able to give jobs away ie; czars, because he has no money to pay them.

This is un-constitutional and those are the laws that LE and our FBI on federal level needs to enforce. Start arresting the people who make laws and fund said laws. We own the country, the Citizens of The United States of America. Lets keep firing the ones who will not listen to what we want!

Sorry....Soap box is done. Forgive me.

Patriot
 

DEROS72

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Thats one of those spineless copout mentalities .I suppose if some politician told you to kick down doors because of a BS emergency and confiscate peoples guns like NEw Orleans you would just follow orders.You are supposed to serve the public not the politicians.

Over a hundred million guns owned by citizens.....Good luck with that.
 
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ronmanci

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Jan 23, 2011
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NY
Thats one of those spineless copout mentalities .I suppose if some politician told you to kick down doors because of a BS emergency and confiscate peoples guns like NEw Orleans you would just follow orders.You are supposed to serve the public not the politicians.

Whatever....
I don't need to cop out. I just need to show my boys that no matter what you do in life you always give it your best. Just like my father taught me.

I wonder if you would think I'm such a cop out if I was to pull your mother, wife, or kids out of a burning car. Like I've done for folks before. I could save your family, or I could choose not to. Your suggesting I should be the kind of person that would choose not to. Thats not me. Those are the bad LEO's. The guys who do what they want instead of what they are supposed to. I don't try to interpret the law, my job is to enforce it. It's really that simple. Like I said, blame the voters that put these lawmakeing idiots in office. Not the last guy in the line.
 
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BigDave

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Whatever....
I don't need to cop out. I just need to show my boys that no matter what you do in life you always give it your best. Just like my father taught me.

I wonder if you would think I'm such a cop out if I was to pull your mother, wife, or kids out of a burning car. Like I've done for folks before. I could save your family, or I could choose not to. Your suggesting I should be the kind of person that would choose not to. Thats not me. Those are the bad LEO's. The guys who do what they want instead of what they are supposed to. I don't try to interpret the law, my job is to enforce it. It's really that simple.

I see this headed in a direction with a possibility of some misunderstanding or maybe not.
We are on two different coast and if I am not mistaken the point of view partially has to do with those officers that do not know the law and impose locker room talk or best guess to enforcement to those who know the law and enforce it.

Good Example of an Officer not knowing the law but imposing his own personal views into the situation.

PCSO detention - audio
link to thread

listen to the audio
 
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Kryteon

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Aug 18, 2009
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Gig Harbor, Washington, USA
I have a family to feed just like everyone else. I can't quit my job and start over as a security guard and still expect to be able to send my three kids to college. Its just a job, and enforcing the laws that the politicians make is just my job description. That is the extent of the LEO's role. Your anger is misplaced. Like I stated before, the folks making all these dumb laws are being elected. You should blame the politicians or maybe even the voters. Im just doing my job. A lot of folks have jobs they don't love, but they have obligations, and they have pride, so they do what they have to.

I have no problem with cops doing their job. The problem I have is when cops DON'T FOLLOW THE LAW. You'll find most reported encounters here are about cops who violate 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendment rights. Most of the larger metropolitan areas have recieved training bulletins on the legality of Open Carry, what is RAS, and when ID can be demanded. I have to assume cops have some training in the law.

If you are just "following orders" when you break the law, then I'd suggest your superiors are putting you at risk. You may want to get documentation so you can CYA in court.

I sometimes wonder why someone going into law enforcement. Is it a calling, a desire to improve a community, a paycheck, or something else?

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Kryteon
 

.45ACPaddy

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Oct 15, 2009
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Lakewood, WA
If I were to go into law enforcement, I'd study the laws during all my spare time, especially regarding RAS. I wouldn't want to screw up and force someone into providing ID or getting them on something and have it turn around on me to show that I had no RAS.

The majority of police are good. The majority of them know their stuff and follow. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the barrel. Unfortunately, there have been several encounters involving the one bad apple.

I understand having a job to do, and I understand following current law. Ideally, one would only follow an order if it's constitutional. This is where it, unfortunately, gets hairy. Even if an order is unconstitutional, one may be punished for not following an order or instruction. Thus is the status quo in many places in this country. We just gotta keep up on voting and push through legislation that will restore the law back to being in line with the constitution.
 

Badger Johnson

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Jan 12, 2011
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LEOs enforce the laws

Im a LEO in NYS, which, you all know, has the dumbest gun laws going. Everyone needs to remember that LEO's only enforce the laws. Its the politicians that the voters elect, that make the laws. I don't agree with every law in the state, but I have a job to do, and I want to do it well, so i follow orders. I think that is all it really comes down to with most LEO's. We just want to do a good job at work, we take pride in the job that we do, just like everyone else.........

LEOs are permitted to lie, are they not? They make up laws, sometimes plant evidence, and generally act like the perps and predators that they encounter - which is somewhat understandable - but the problem is they act like predators to civilians. They no longer 'Protect and Serve', and as we've found out lately, there is no duty to protect the individual, just the 'public good', whatever that is.
 

TechnoWeenie

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LEOs are permitted to lie, are they not? They make up laws, sometimes plant evidence, and generally act like the perps and predators that they encounter - which is somewhat understandable - but the problem is they act like predators to civilians. They no longer 'Protect and Serve', and as we've found out lately, there is no duty to protect the individual, just the 'public good', whatever that is.

greater_good_hot_fuzz.jpg
 

ronmanci

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Jan 23, 2011
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152
Location
NY
LEOs are permitted to lie, are they not? They make up laws, sometimes plant evidence, and generally act like the perps and predators that they encounter - which is somewhat understandable - but the problem is they act like predators to civilians. They no longer 'Protect and Serve', and as we've found out lately, there is no duty to protect the individual, just the 'public good', whatever that is.

Sounds like you have had a bad experience with someone and now you labeling all LEO's to be the same. To me its just a job. Put the law enforcement aside, I get up everyday and go to work just like everyone else. I'll bet there are parts of your job that you do not like to perform. But we do it, because it is what we get paid to do. Blaming a LEO for the laws is like blaming a teacher for making her students use pencils because it is a school rule. That teacher and the students might prefer pens, but the teacher does what she is told by her employer and mandates that the students use pencils. Against her better opinion. Is is the teachers fault or the school? Is it the officers fault, or the lawmakers. As a LEO you cannot go against the law or ignore a statute. If I was to do that I would be fired, would be labeled as a trouble maker and depending on the extent of what I ignored to act upon, I could be personally liable. Once your fired from any department, It's extreamely hard to get re-hired anywhere. I've been a part of the same department for 22 years. I learned to respect my boss in the Marines, where you always do what your told. Once those values are established, they aren't going away. Sometimes as an MP, I would have to arrest a buddy, but you get it done the best you can, and you always show the respect that you would expect in return. Most LEO's are not the person that you describe. Sure there are a couple on every force, but that doesn't make every cop bad. Just like doctors, there are good ones and bad ones.
 
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