New Law Enforcement Member.

Citizen · Jan 30, 2011

ronmanci said:
Your the ring leader! A real rebel rouser.

Heh, heh, heh. Rebel rouser? Oooo. What a revealing choice of words. Only a dyed-in-wool statist would call rebels the freedom-oriented commenters who've been hammering you on other threads.

As for being a ring-leader, hardly. I didn't even pay attention to that other thread until about page 9 or 10. No, you stepped into that with your abrasive style and statist comments yourself.

However, I am one of the original cop-bashers on this forum. Although I never really stooped to verbal filth and such, I used to get quite heated before John and Mike clamped down hard on cop-bashing. Heh, heh, heh. Too bad for you statist cops. The clamp-down was actually a benefit to me. It forced me to become much more refined and to learn facts, of which it turned out there were plenty. In short, my cop-bashing turned into effective cop criticism. I can back statist cops into a corner with the best of them. I've had four years to learn your ilk's dodges, evasions, and tactics.

I've been pretty tame with you up to now. If you want to tangle, I'm willing to dance. You just have to ask yourself if you're willing to chance being shown a statist troglodyte, and whether it will be worth it. Ask yourself how many of your ideas and attitudes are really freedom-oriented. Ask yourself whether they are so important to you that you can or can't stand for the anti-freedom ones to be exposed. Can you stand to have your fixed ideas yanked out from under you? Are you big enough? Those are the sorts of things you'll want to consider.

Or, maybe you could just try to get along as a new guy until you learn the ropes, and eschew both your abrasive style and getting drawn into arguments, taking criticism personally.

Those are veteran forum debaters you're up against in that other thread, and freedom-minded ones at that. They know their Locke, their Jefferson, their Spooner--not just the quotes, but the principles and concepts underlying. You have to decide whether your statist "distortions" will stand up to the light of freedom. Those boys have almost 800 years of freedom principles at their command, especially Deanimator and Dreamer.

AFPVet · Jan 30, 2011

Criticism can be constructive... as long as it is not out of line. If something offends me, I will say so. Until then, hot beans... I don't like my beans cold

ronmanci · Jan 30, 2011

this was the latest post on the other thread by a member named DEANIMATOR. No cop bashing here.....

"Kill the pigs!" they can just dismiss. Names, dates, places and body counts are something they can't dismiss... at least without looking like liars and fools.

I did just read my private messages, and i must say I'm overwhelmed with the support shown privately. Thank you. I now see some of my problems have a history of popping up before. But guys, please post that stuff publicly. It can only help.

ronmanci · Jan 30, 2011

One of my private messages....thanks again. Eye opening from a 7 year member.

They love to bait you in, slap you down, then the pack feels empowered and they all want a piece. If there were ever a place where "don't drink the kool aid" applied, it's here. If these are the public representatives of open carry, the movement is doomed (not that it breaks my heart) as I feel cc is a smarter option. The majority of folks here have no power, money, influence, or status in society, and desperately want to feel empowered. An exposed gun on their hip is the only thing that makes them feel like they are someone of importance. Unfortunately the majority of the general public views them as wackos, attention whores, or potential psycho killers ready to snap any second.

Whatever you do don't ever mention Officer Safety, as it is like garlic to a vampire, and just mere words (to them) intended to allow harrassment of the poor OC'er. Most have no clue what a Cop actually does or why he does it, and they DON'T want to learn. I grew tired of beating my head against their wall, and so will you.

Here is another:

I want to extend a sincere welcome to you. There are a few on the Wa forum that I think are there just to stir the pot. They have had bad experience with LEO and cannot just get over it. I have to think that for the most part the incidents they had, were inadvertantly started by themselves. Davepro2a is a pot stirer. Sigfan you have already figured out.

HandyHamlet · Jan 30, 2011

Welcome to you both to the forum.

For what it is worth I'm not a cop and I was raked over the coals as a new member too.
Members convinced me to stay and it has been a very positive experience since then.

There is an "ignore list" in Settings that is quite handy.

robp · Jan 30, 2011

well i have to say i carry concealed for my own prefrence. but open carrying is so important to edjuate people there is a theiry that only police and bad guys carry guns that is why there is so much issue when people open carry. so it is important to edjucate people other wise

DeputySheriff · Jan 31, 2011

ronmanci said:
Just so you know, I agree with 95% of the views and opinions on this forum, but I am still attacked 100% of the time, for being a Police Officer. And that reason only. I've been told many times, just today, "I hate the police". I can tell someone that I agree with them and they respond, yea but your opinion is no good because your a cop. It's a shame because we could be a big help. I am starting to think this is a cop bashing forum, instead of a pro-gun forum. I was really hoping to join a forum where I can share my experiences and also learn a little something. Instead I'm dodgeing bullets every time I tell someone I'm a LEO. Too bad, so sad

There are people who have had bad experiences with LEO's, myself included years ago. I work with mostly new-hires and some of them REALLY let that star go to their head and do some very stupid things. One of the reasons I joined the Sheriffs Dept. is I wanted to be more of a peace officer instead of a law enforcement officer, and in my job description, I am a peace officer sworn to uphold the Ms State Constitution.

I read where some officers say they have to follow orders from their superiors, no matter if the order is right or wrong.

I'm pretty sure I've read case law somewhere (maybe on here or in my training) that if a superior officer orders you to do something that is wrong, illegal, unconstitutional, etc., and you know it is wrong and do it anyway then you are just as liable as your superior officer.

On that same note, if a superior officer were to order me to do something that is legal & constitutional but I do not agree with and I do not follow that order, then my a** will be in a sling with the sheriff. I've seen my sheriff chew a** and I hope I am never on the receiving end of one of those type of meetings.

For instance, if a superior officer were to order me to charge a peaceful permit-less open-carrier with 97-37-1, I would refuse and my argument would be this:

The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons.

DCKilla · Jan 31, 2011

DeputySheriff said:
For instance, if a superior officer were to order me to charge a peaceful permit-less open-carrier with 97-37-1, I would refuse and my argument would be this:

The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons.

Thank you, maybe we can be friends. Welcome to the forum, I like like-minded liberty loving people.

4angrybadgers · Jan 31, 2011

Welcome to the forum, DeputySheriff. Please do look past the occasional bickering - there is wheat hidden amongst the chaff.

aadvark · Jan 31, 2011

Mississippi Deputy Sheriff:

[OMIT]

[OMIT]

The things that need to Change in Mississippi are: 1. Repeal '... in Whole or in Part...' from Mississippi Code 97-37-1, 2. Repeal Mississippi Code 45-9-53(c) through Mississippi Code 45-9-53(g), AND Repeal Mississippi Code 45-9-101(13) for those who are Licensed by The State of Mississippi to Carry Concealed Pistol or Revolver.

aadvark

Q-Tip · Jan 31, 2011

aadvark said:
Mississippi Deputy Sheriff:

In Georgia, unlike Mississippi, there is NO Requirement that a Licensed Person take ANY Training Classes as to Concealed Carry, or Open Carry.

Mississippi could Change this, as I have NEVER met ANY Southerner who was Unable to Carry or Shoot a Firearm.

The things that need to Change in Mississippi are: 1. Repeal '... in Whole or in Part...' from Mississippi Code 97-37-1, 2. Repeal Mississippi Code 45-9-53(c) through Mississippi Code 45-9-53(g), AND Repeal Mississippi Code 45-9-101(13) for those who are Licensed by The State of Mississippi to Carry Concealed Pistol or Revolver.

aadvark

No training is required in MS to obtain a CHL, only the fee, background check, prints, etc. See 45-9-101 (4-5)

Badger Johnson · Jan 31, 2011

ronmanci said:
Just so you know, I agree with 95% of the views and opinions on this forum, but I am still attacked 100% of the time,

YOU are attacked? Oh really. Please post a quote where YOU are attacked. Opinions, other officer actions criticized, sure, but nobody attacked YOU.

Please don't play the crybaby. Thanks.

CharleyMarbles · Feb 1, 2011

Badger Johnson said:
YOU are attacked? Oh really. Please post a quote where YOU are attacked. Opinions, other officer actions criticized, sure, but nobody attacked YOU.

Please don't play the crybaby. Thanks.

Sorry Badger but he WAS attacked for the fact that he enforces laws he dosn't agree are right. Just saying

not that I disagree with it but it has happened. With that said as a Veteran myself I spent blood defending everyone's right to their oppinion

turbodog · Feb 1, 2011

ronmanci said:
Just so you know, I agree with 95% of the views and opinions on this forum, but I am still attacked 100% of the time, for being a Police Officer.(

Well...I haven't attacked you yet so it can't be 100%

That was a joke brother. Glad to see guys like yourself and DeputySheriff on these forums. Stick around.

wrightme · Feb 1, 2011

Did you report it to the site mods? That is the route to take.

ronmanci said:
this was the latest post on the other thread by a member named DEANIMATOR. No cop bashing here.....

"Kill the pigs!" they can just dismiss. Names, dates, places and body counts are something they can't dismiss... at least without looking like liars and fools.

I did just read my private messages, and i must say I'm overwhelmed with the support shown privately. Thank you. I now see some of my problems have a history of popping up before. But guys, please post that stuff publicly. It can only help.

Just to be clear, the thread of which you spoke earlier was showing posts from members who respect LE, yet understand that this respect ends when LE abuse their power and violate the Rights of citizens. Then:

ronmanci said:
Im a LEO in NYS, which, you all know, has the dumbest gun laws going. Everyone needs to remember that LEO's only enforce the laws. Its the politicians that the voters elect, that make the laws. I don't agree with every law in the state, but I have a job to do, and I want to do it well, so i follow orders. I think that is all it really comes down to with most LEO's. We just want to do a good job at work, we take pride in the job that we do, just like everyone else.........

Good LEO's only enforce the laws. The ones that give a bad impression are those who violate rights through either misunderstanding the very laws they have sworn to uphold, or through a desire to legislate with their badge.

You should note that I have not in any way "attacked you only because you are LE." In fact, I have not attacked you at all. But, you posted a statement that simply isn't supportable in fact.

And here was the first response to your post:

BigDave said:
I see this headed in a direction with a possibility of some misunderstanding or maybe not.
We are on two different coast and if I am not mistaken the point of view partially has to do with those officers that do not know the law and impose locker room talk or best guess to enforcement to those who know the law and enforce it.
Good Example of an Officer not knowing the law but imposing his own personal views into the situation.

PCSO detention - audio
link to thread

listen to the audio

A very clear representation of the reality.

Badger Johnson · Feb 1, 2011

CharleyMarbles said:
Sorry Badger but he WAS attacked for the fact that he enforces laws he dosn't agree are right. Just saying not that I disagree with it but it has happened. With that said as a Veteran myself I spent blood defending everyone's right to their oppinion

Thanks Charley, but IMO, being attacked is a personal attack, not a disagreement or pointing out someone is being hypocritical. I read that thread and I do not think he was attacked, just his comments or his actions were at issue.

Nobody called him name or said he was a jerk or anything that I recall. I really do not think that person is actually a LEO, btw.

wrightme · Feb 1, 2011

DeputySheriff said:
Hi everyone,

I am a Deputy in Mississippi and I am pro carry, Here are some of my opinions.

I feel everyone who can legally own a handgun should carry, either concealed or openly, as it is not my nor my departments responsibility to be your bodyguard. I also feel the constitution (which I am sworn to uphold) gives every citizen the right to openly carry a holstered handgun without a permit. This "partially concealed because of holster" is pure BS in my opinion.

I recommend to everyone who can get a permit to do so, but I definitely understand why some do not (time, money, privacy etc) and I respect that decision.
It just gives you more options like for some reason you want to cover your weapon, then you could legally do so without breaking the law.

I also believe that ignorance of the law is no excuse for officers or citizens.

Not all deputies share my opinions and I am not in a position to change anything, at-least not yet, all I can do is try to educate my fellow deputies as much as I can.

One thing I'd love to see is a FREE & OPTIONAL handgun training course - Probably a pipe dream, but I have seen some people do some very dangerous things with handguns, mainly in regards to muzzle discipline.

I do not like these so-called "Concealed-Carry" badges. They are not illegal, I just don't like them because they can easily be mistaken for a LEA badge, from what I've read, most on here feel the same way.

I will not reveal which agency I am involved with and kindly request that people respect this decision. If OCDO administration feels it is necessary, I will provide proof to them and them only but with restrictions that the information to be kept private.

Carry-on!

Welcome to the forum DS. As you can already tell, you will encounter a wide range of views, and of personalities here. Rational discussion is always welcomed.

aadvark · Feb 1, 2011

Q-Tip:

Thank You for The Correction.

I will Edit my Previous Post Accordingly.

aadvark

Gunslinger · Feb 1, 2011

ronmanci said:
Your the ring leader! A real rebel rouser.

That's "rabble" rouser--and 'you're,' to be accurate... I don't see the folks who jump in on Citizen's posts as "rabble," albeit he is something of a rebel-- particularly when it comes to accepting fawning sycophancy for cops. And his point is directly on target: with few exceptions, no one bashes an individual member who just happens to be a cop. Cops posted about are bashed when they act like thugs, not peace officers, and violate the oath they swore to uphold and defend the constitution. I don't recall any member being attacked for this, although some attitudes have drawn pointed comment. No one despises dirty cops or cowards with compensatory problems throwing their weight around more than I do. And no one is more outspoken against them--although some come pretty close. But that does not apply to a decent cop doing the best he can, or cops as a "species." If you fit in this category, you will be welcomed here, learn a lot and maybe teach us something from time to time. No one is out to get you. On the contrary, most would like your perspective on various topics.

Claytron · Feb 1, 2011

ronmanci said:
Just so you know, I agree with 95% of the views and opinions on this forum, but I am still attacked 100% of the time, for being a Police Officer. And that reason only. I've been told many times, just today, "I hate the police". I can tell someone that I agree with them and they respond, yea but your opinion is no good because your a cop. It's a shame because we could be a big help. I am starting to think this is a cop bashing forum, instead of a pro-gun forum. I was really hoping to join a forum where I can share my experiences and also learn a little something. Instead I'm dodgeing bullets every time I tell someone I'm a LEO. Too bad, so sad

Actually i think it was your "Im a cop and i could save your life or not if i wanted to." comment in a previous thread that threw people off...

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