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Thread: Detroit Police Station shooting CCTV Video

  1. #1
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Detroit Police Station shooting CCTV Video

    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member usamarshal's Avatar
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    Looks like the suspect was shot point blank....then collapsed about 6-10 seconds later...wonder what caliber round the officer used that hit the suspect?

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    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    A very disturbing video and traumatic event for those officers to deal with. Thankfully no officer lost his life that day. Hopefully all of us will take the lesson that you can never let your situational awareness drop for even a second.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Damn.......

    Does anyone know how many were hit? I counted at least 3. 2 at the beginning, and then the one who shot the shooter.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    By departmental Policy they use those garbage Federal hollow points with the rubber inserts. Many man many failures have been reported and the city refuses to change policy. They have reported shootings where the perp was hit multiple times with no effect. As this perp took many round to the torso all would have been one shot stops if they had used corbons or a similar round. The officers all had .40 Glocks or now Smith and Wesson M&P's if they have been retrained for the M&P.

    Note the Perp walked past 3 Female black officers and only shot the white officers till he was engaged by others, and forced to return fire.

    This human waste was raided the night before on Rape, imprisonment, and kidnapping of a 13 year old he kept hostage and raped repeatedly for several days.

    Thank GOD no officers died and I wish and pray for a speedy recovery.



    Quote Originally Posted by usamarshal View Post
    Looks like the suspect was shot point blank....then collapsed about 6-10 seconds later...wonder what caliber round the officer used that hit the suspect?
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    4 officers (wounded), and one dead idiot (perp)


    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    Damn.......

    Does anyone know how many were hit? I counted at least 3. 2 at the beginning, and then the one who shot the shooter.
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 01-29-2011 at 12:12 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    It is a lesson in common sense. 1. No one questioned or stopped this perp walking in with a shotgun and he walked past several officers. No situational awareness there.
    Anyone trained can see a man has a long gun under a jacket, note it wasn't a full coat only a jacket! Real bad situational awareness.

    2. Those Federal rubber filled hollow points are trash! I have talked to Federal myself years ago on this and the Detroit complaints, Federal kept defending it's "position" and ignored my data on the shootings where perps were hit in the chest and the bullet literally bounced off! Yes it bounced off of an M-5 military surplus field issue jacket. Many shootings where these rubber bullets bounced off car windows. Bet my Corbons won't! And none of my personally loaded rounds either.

    The reason for the rubber filled hollow points are PURELY political. This is cowardice on the part of every Mayor and city council since Coleman A. Youngs pronouncement of no hollow points way back in history. No mayor since then has the intestinal fortitude and spine to say enough is enough and have the courage to break ranks with the Black Panther mentality and choose rounds that actually work. None of the city council members or mayors are intelligent enough to grasp the concept that a one shot stopper hollow point is ACTUALLY more survivable that being hit 15 times with these useless rubber filled bullets. They are not smart enough to realize it is easier to stop bleeding in one or two holes and repair the person that stop the bleeding in 6 to 15 holes, and have enough time to surgically repair them.

    So literally the City council and Mayors are giving a death sentence to most perps shot by the Police in their city, because that GOLDEN HOUR is lost by the many wounds suffered.

    Lets call it what it is, there is tons of shooting data kept by the NIJ (National Institute of Justice) on the multiple impact shootings and almost 90% are not survivable. Lets call out the City Councils and Mayors as responsible for bad policy that leads to MORE deaths of perps and officers.





    Quote Originally Posted by sprinklerguy28 View Post
    A very disturbing video and traumatic event for those officers to deal with. Thankfully no officer lost his life that day. Hopefully all of us will take the lesson that you can never let your situational awareness drop for even a second.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Suggestions for Detroit:

    1. Consider installing a bullet resistant partition at the desk.
    2. Reassess the effectiveness of the ammo currently being used.
    3. Don't violate Michigan law in the process.

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    Regular Member usamarshal's Avatar
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    Yea, I used to work at a county sheriff's office back in the day that went from the standard hollow points to the the frangible type. There was no way I was going to put that crap in my firearm because the sheriff was worried about over penitration. I had a superior get pissed off at me because of it and said that I could killed someone if I used the standard hollow points...I was said, Isn't that the point sir? Yea, I didn't stay there long after that...haha

    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    By departmental Policy they use those garbage Federal hollow points with the rubber inserts. Many man many failures have been reported and the city refuses to change policy. They have reported shootings where the perp was hit multiple times with no effect. As this perp took many round to the torso all would have been one shot stops if they had used corbons or a similar round. The officers all had .40 Glocks or now Smith and Wesson M&P's if they have been retrained for the M&P.

    Note the Perp walked past 3 Female black officers and only shot the white officers till he was engaged by others, and forced to return fire.

    This human waste was raided the night before on Rape, imprisonment, and kidnapping of a 13 year old he kept hostage and raped repeatedly for several days.

    Thank GOD no officers died and I wish and pray for a speedy recovery.

  10. #10
    Regular Member RenegadeMarine's Avatar
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    My instructor for my class today is a DPD officer, and we talked at length about this situation. He said that the perp was shot 5 times; twice in the hand, twice in the arm/shoulder, and once under the armpit, which was the kill shot.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    wow, this video sickened me. you can see the utter panic set in for the officers caught completely off guard. i can't even imagine.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    By departmental Policy they use those garbage Federal hollow points with the rubber inserts. Many man many failures have been reported and the city refuses to change policy. They have reported shootings where the perp was hit multiple times with no effect. As this perp took many round to the torso all would have been one shot stops if they had used corbons or a similar round. The officers all had .40 Glocks or now Smith and Wesson M&P's if they have been retrained for the M&P.

    Note the Perp walked past 3 Female black officers and only shot the white officers till he was engaged by others, and forced to return fire.

    This human waste was raided the night before on Rape, imprisonment, and kidnapping of a 13 year old he kept hostage and raped repeatedly for several days.

    Thank GOD no officers died and I wish and pray for a speedy recovery.
    Bailenforcer, thank you so much for clearing that part up about DPD's ammo. I watched the video for the first time on the news last night and was in utter horror because Moore wouldn’t go down with one shot and I couldn’t understand why. I mean he kept the fighting intensity up until he just slumped over and collapsed. And viewing the footage, I couldn’t point to the single definitive shot that put him down, he seemed unphased by any of the five shots.

    I was afraid my ammo would be just as ineffective in a self defense shooting.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

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  13. #13
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Federal Hallow points with Rubber Inserts.

    I use Hornady Critical Defense in conjunction with SPEER Gold Dots. Does Hornady also have problems I'm not aware of?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usamarshal View Post
    Looks like the suspect was shot point blank....then collapsed about 6-10 seconds later...wonder what caliber round the officer used that hit the suspect?
    .40s&w
    Most if not all officers carry the new M&P's, I don't know of any officers that don't, maybe some desk jockeys still have the Glocks. Also some "beat" cops I know use either Gold Dots or HSTs in the magazine/barrel in their firearm, and keep the DPD crap in their spare mags for checks. Most get away with it.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
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    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  15. #15
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    This story and video are OBVIOUSLY made-up and completely fictional...

    1) It is against Michigan law to carry a long gun concealed,

    2) it is against State and City codes to discharge a firearm in a reckless manner,

    3) murder, and attempted murder are illegal under Michigan law,

    4) it is against the law to transport a loaded firearm in Michigan unless the person has a CPL.

    So with all these laws that are designed to prevent this sort of thing, any rational person can see that there is simply NO WAY that this event occurred as reported. Because everyone knows that laws don't punish or restrict law-abiding citizens--they ONLY punish and restrict criminals, and EVERYONE knows that criminals actually obey these laws and restrictions...

    [sarcarsm OFF]
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    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    wow, this video sickened me. you can see the utter panic set in for the officers caught completely off guard. i can't even imagine.
    I don't know that I'd call it panic, more like fight or flight adrenalin. In my experience with defending myself against deadly sized dogs, in those circumstances where I got completely caught off guard, there was no time for panic or fear, only time for action. If you don't see the attack coming, time perception slows down and you act fast, and focus hard on the very next thing you need to do, pretty much disregarding what's already happened until it's all over. After that, all the other emotions come in. I've never heard anyone who got attacked by complete surprise say anything any different, at least not among those who know how to defend themselves, and did so. It's very much like when you have to slam on the brakes to try to avoid hitting another vehicle. It doesn't churn your stomach until after it happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by cmdr_iceman71 View Post
    I was afraid my ammo would be just as ineffective in a self defense shooting.
    Could be, even though you have better ammo. Handguns are weak, short of heavy hitting big game oriented wheel guns. Anyone who hunts has probably seen animals shot lethally with hard hitting rifles and shotguns, and still manage to run like hell, not knowing they're nearly gone. Most notably for me, I saw a deer get hit by 5 HP 12 gauge slugs, then run about 70 yards, then promptly die.

    You're choice of sidearm is certainly among the best. But you still want to keep shooting until the guy goes down and stops moving. A friend of a guy on another forum who I believe is a cop actually emptied a 1911 full of good ammo at a killer, then had to grab his AR to stop him, because even though mortally wounded, the killer kept coming. As I quote often, "don't stop shooting until you see brains" and "when in doubt, empty the magazine".
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    One last note, a word of caution for anyone who believes in practicing sight picture shooting, or even point shooting from a stationary position, such as a common lane at a gun range. THIS IS WHAT A GUN FIGHT LOOKS LIKE! Quick convulsively gripped one handed shots from cover, absolutely no consideration for the sights, moving all around cover. These guys did exactly what they needed to do, and it's the reason they are alive. Practicing to the contrary could easily get you killed.

    If you can't find a range that will allow you to practice in a manner which is consistent with the way shootings actually happen, shoot outdoors, use state land if you have to. Evil Creamsicle and I for example like a spot of land just down the road from the Pit. Bring objects to use as pretend cover, run all around, and never spend more than half your time doing defensive target practice while using the sights. Also, if possible also do airsoft and/or simunitions practice. THIS is what can make the difference, not bulls----ing yourself that you should "focus on the front sight"
    Last edited by Michigander; 01-29-2011 at 08:09 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    yea a number I know do the same thing, they carry real ammo in the gun, and that issue crap in a spare mag.

    It is very sad that Politics wins over the lives of the officers every time. Frankly the people need to make their opinions known.



    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    .40s&w
    Most if not all officers carry the new M&P's, I don't know of any officers that don't, maybe some desk jockeys still have the Glocks. Also some "beat" cops I know use either Gold Dots or HSTs in the magazine/barrel in their firearm, and keep the DPD crap in their spare mags for checks. Most get away with it.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    An officer should be able to use a round that is as effective as possible, that he is able to handle correctly and qualify with. For me a 10MM and a 357 snub. is my minimum if I am back working the streets. Today I still like my Browning Hi-Power practical with the 5 inch barrel and 115 grain corbons at 1426 FPS chrono'd, backed up with nothing less than a S&W Model 19 2.5 inch loaded with some hot 125 grain JHP's
    I can shoot both with precision and till the cows come if if the need arises. I refuse to be a victim.


    Quote Originally Posted by usamarshal View Post
    Yea, I used to work at a county sheriff's office back in the day that went from the standard hollow points to the the frangible type. There was no way I was going to put that crap in my firearm because the sheriff was worried about over penitration. I had a superior get pissed off at me because of it and said that I could killed someone if I used the standard hollow points...I was said, Isn't that the point sir? Yea, I didn't stay there long after that...haha
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 01-29-2011 at 11:37 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  20. #20
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    They should dump those rubber tipped bullets and stick with what works. Personally, I would've liked to have seen the officers carrying full house 10mm's or .45's.
    Last edited by AFPVet; 01-30-2011 at 01:50 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I use Hornady Critical Defense in conjunction with SPEER Gold Dots. Does Hornady also have problems I'm not aware of?
    I've seen a pretty even split of good performance and less than ideal performance from the online tests I've read.

    Here's just one example from Golden Loki.com.

    This is the 9x19 out of a 3.1 barrel Kel-Tec P11 through two layers of denim into calibrated gel. http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9mm/gel9.htm

    The CD had good penetration at 14.5" but pretty lackluster expansion at just .477 (the 9mm and .380 start at .355).

    Now, compare that to the .380 results and you see the CD only expanded to .443 and penetrated 11.2". That's from a Kel-Tec P3AT using the same test protocal as above.

    Using the same test criteria you can see that the Corbon DPX in .380 penetrated 10.9" (only .3 less than the CD) but expanded to a whopping .645. Those results are similar to the majority of tests I've seen of the Barnes X Bullet design that is found in the Corbon DPX and also some other manufacturers like Black Hills.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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