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Thread: What Condition do you Carry In?

  1. #1
    Regular Member TrailRunner's Avatar
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    What Condition do you Carry In?

    Okay, assuming that Condition 0 is reckless, and condition 4 is damn near useless, which of the three remaining conditions do you carry in? What are your reasons for doing so?

    I carry in 2, because my Walther is DA/SA. I find it far easier to draw, flash, and squeeze the DA then to draw, safety off, flash, and squeeze. This may change, though, when I have a firearm that doesn't have the backward European slide safety.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailRunner View Post
    Okay, assuming that Condition 0 is reckless, ...
    You sure about that??? There is no "condition zero". The legendary guru of the combat 1911, Jeff Cooper, came up with the "Condition" system to define the state of readiness of the 1911-pattern pistol. The are:

    Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
    Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
    Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.


    My 1911 has three safeties which would all have to fail at exactly the same time in order for it to fire.
    Impossible? No. Might happen in 1000 years? Maybe.

    I have been carrying my 1911 in the "reckless condition" since 1990. Not once has it ever just gone off all by itself. Each time in that last 21 years that it has discharged I have had my finger on the trigger, the slide lock safety off, and the grip safety depressed.


    What are your reasons for doing so?
    Many times when you ask a BG to hold on while you ready your gun, they don't extend the courtesy.


    If you practice, I don't see any real disadvantage in carrying in any of the conditions.
    Condition 3 is taught by the IDF and they are quite proficient with the 1911. But you have to remember they train every day and put thousands of round down range. Us civilians seldom train like they do and thus don't develop the muscle memory to sight/draw/cock/aim instinctively.
    Last edited by Anthony_I_Am; 01-29-2011 at 12:50 PM.

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    These days I carry a Glock + Kahr combination which are both striker fired. So I guess I carry in condition 0 as neither has a manual safety and I always have a round chambered.

    As you are talking about the 1911 platform, I personally would carry in Condition 1. That is of course the way that I have trained, which is to have my thumb on the safety when I draw (ready to take it from "safe" to "off-safe" as part of the draw cycle).

    The only issue with Condition 2 as I see it is that it does leave you open to the possibility of a negligent discharge when prepping the pistol for carry. What I mean by that is that during the process of chambering a round the hammer is locked back. You then have to gently lower the hammer down for you to carry in condition 2. If your finger slips you will have the above mentioned ND. Also, another concern is having the hammer snag on something while the pistol is holstered (of course, it is unlikely this would be an issue if you have a grip safety). That being stated, if you are careful you shouldn't worry about it to much (just make sure to have the weapon pointed in a safe direction as always). I have carried in condition 2 at the range plenty of times and never had a problem.

    I think that there is no right or wrong way to carry your 1911. Everyone has their own personal preference, it just comes down to what you are comfortable with.
    Last edited by Sgt. Kabukiman N.Y.P.D.; 01-29-2011 at 12:49 PM.
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    G19, round chambered, +1, safely tucked into a good holster.

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Round chambered, mag in, my condition is usually sober.

  6. #6
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    I mostly carry one of my 1911's in condition 1, and I occasionally carry an M&P with a round chambered instead.

  7. #7
    mattwestm
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    I carry my DA/SA guns with the hammer down and safety off. Pretty much the same as a Glock, Kel-tec, or revolver, just relying on the long trigger pull as safety.

    1911s are cocked and locked. My XD is loaded mag with a round chambered.

    My favorite type of carry is DA/SA. They feel safer than a glock, but you don't have to worry about fumbling with a safety. The DA trigger pull doesn't bother me.

  8. #8
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Though the conditions listed above from Jeff Cooper are the originals, 'condition 0' is widely understood as loaded with no active safety and 'condition 4' is widely understood as no chambered round, no magazine (or an empty magazine) in the gun. No, they weren't the original conditions as intended for the 1911 platform, but they have come into wide use.

    That being said, I carry an XD45 w/ thumb safety condition 1.
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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Sig P239, full mag + 1 in the chamber, hammer down (DA/SA, no manual safety)
    Same for the Ruger LCP

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    I carry a XD-40.... full mag +1 in the pipe... If I need to draw and fire I dont want a manual safety to get in the way. My finger is safe behind the trigger guard... I just point and squeeze...

  11. #11
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    i have a 1911

    outside my house i'm condition 1
    inside my house condition 3
    GO PIRATES!!!!!

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    Glock 20: It's a Glock lol. It is carried chambered
    Sig Sauer P220: Chambered DA/SA

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    Glock 21, one in the pipe and 13 in the mag. Kel-Tec PF9, one in the pipe and 7 in the mag.

  14. #14
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    only safety i need it between my thumb and middle finger but i do carry a CA/SA gun

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    Regular Member Resto Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy002 View Post
    only safety i need it between my thumb and middle finger but i do carry a CA/SA gun
    Don't forget about the safety between your ears

  17. #17
    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    PK 380... 8 in the mag, 1 in the chamber, hammer down, saftey on

  18. #18
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    i have to agree condition 1 is the way to go.

  19. #19
    Regular Member TrailRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony_I_Am View Post
    I have been carrying my 1911 in the "reckless condition" since 1990. Not once has it ever just gone off all by itself. Each time in that last 21 years that it has discharged I have had my finger on the trigger, the slide lock safety off, and the grip safety depressed.
    You're right in that I'm not using Jeff Cooper's original system, but he *probably* would have wanted the field of firearm self-defense to advance and evolve.. I don't think he'd have a *serious* issue with the public that tries to learn his techniques taking it further. I know he took some umbrage to the USMC's slight changes to his color system, but to my knowledge he never tried to talk them out of it, either. I could be wrong.

    I'm glad you've had zero ND, but Condition 0 is a loaded firearm, with no safety on, with the hammer cocked. That can be a dangerous proposition, especially if your firearm has a soft trigger. Just drawing with poor trigger finger placement in that condition can cause a ND.

    I'm not going to try to talk you out of it, but I think carrying Condition 0 is reckless.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member TrailRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Kabukiman N.Y.P.D. View Post
    The only issue with Condition 2 as I see it is that it does leave you open to the possibility of a negligent discharge when prepping the pistol for carry. What I mean by that is that during the process of chambering a round the hammer is locked back. You then have to gently lower the hammer down for you to carry in condition 2. If your finger slips you will have the above mentioned ND. Also, another concern is having the hammer snag on something while the pistol is holstered (of course, it is unlikely this would be an issue if you have a grip safety). That being stated, if you are careful you shouldn't worry about it to much (just make sure to have the weapon pointed in a safe direction as always). I have carried in condition 2 at the range plenty of times and never had a problem.
    My Walther's only safety mechanism is a slide lever that blocks the firing pin from being hit by the hammer. So, I always make sure the safety is on before I lower the hammer, to avoid a ND. I go outside and point my Walther at the ground to decock it anyway, JIC.

    When I get my next firearm for EDC, which will most likely be an EAA Witness, I'll probably carry in Condition 1 as well, because it's designed to be carried that way.
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  21. #21
    mattwestm
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailRunner View Post
    My Walther's only safety mechanism is a slide lever that blocks the firing pin from being hit by the hammer. So, I always make sure the safety is on before I lower the hammer, to avoid a ND. I go outside and point my Walther at the ground to decock it anyway, JIC.

    When I get my next firearm for EDC, which will most likely be an EAA Witness, I'll probably carry in Condition 1 as well, because it's designed to be carried that way.
    A lot of DA/SA guns incorporate decockers. My Beretta 92 is a safety/decocker. I carry it with the hammer down/safety off. The only guns I own that have a safety, but no decocker are my CZs. I'm just very careful when I lower the hammer by hand.

    My CZ-75 and CZ-82 are just like the Witness. Probably designed to be carried cocked and locked, but I prefer DA with safety off. Unfortunately you can only activate the safety with the hammer cocked.
    Last edited by mattwestm; 01-30-2011 at 11:59 AM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member r1dramma's Avatar
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    FN 5.7 - 1 in the pipe, 20 in the mag, safety on

    CZ 85 40 cal - 1 in the pipe, 10 in the mag
    hammer down-safety off or hammer cocked- safety on (it depends on where im headed)

    Ruger LCP - 1 in the pipe, 6 in the mag

  23. #23
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Condition 1.5

    Round in chamber, full mag, hammer de-cocked, using DA trigger for first round. I prefer my Taurus to look uncocked. Looks less "threatening?" that way just sitting in the holster.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    my sig
    Taurus PT1911 .45 ACP. Carried in condition 1, with a total of 25 rounds.

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  25. #25
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    I'm going to disagree with you OP. I don't think there is anything inherently dangerous or reckless about carrying a handgun w/o a manual safety cocked and locked. My guns have never went off by themselves. A basic part of gun safety is to keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire. It would be irresponsible and reckless IMO to carry a gun with a trigger so light that you have to worry about an AD.

    It took me a little while to convince myself that carry with one in the chamber was the way to go, simply because I was new to carrying and uncomfortable with it, but figured if I think I can responsibly carry a gun there is no reason I shouldn't be able to carry it loaded w/ one in the chamber. I NEVER draw or pick up a weapon and begin finger f***ing the trigger, in fact my trigger finger is always well clear of the trigger until I'm on target. If I ever need to draw my weapon I don't want to have to rack the slide before I can defend myself.

    To answer your question:
    XDm w/ grip safety or M&P w/ thumb safety removed, both loaded chambers ready to rock.

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