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Thread: No permitting for me

  1. #1
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    Red face No permitting for me

    The oath our state representatives took, every one of them.

    "I, (official's name), having been elected or appointed to the office of (title) swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States and the constitution of the State of Wisconsin, and will faithfully and impartially discharge the duties of said office to the best of my ability. So help me God."

    Hopefully, our state reps will have choice to make. They can honor their oath and clear the path of idiotic statutory hurdles that suppress the exercise of the right, or, they can add to the hurdles by instituting a privilege disguised as a right. They can second guess our founding fathers and second guess the voters of Wisconsin who gave themselves the right to bear arms and require permitting, fees, mandatory training, background checks.

    Our state constitution does not specify the method of carry and neither should our legislature.

    I, for one, will not participate in any permitting scheme. I will not accept the concept that the state can "grant me the privilege" of exercising a right.

    Rant concluded. I feel better now.
    Last edited by Max; 01-29-2011 at 06:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Archangel's Avatar
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    Yes you will....



    (runs and hides under a chair)

  3. #3
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    Max runs up to the chair and shouts, "WILL NOT, WILL NOT.

  4. #4
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    Yes you will....



    (runs and hides under a chair)
    No need to run and hide.

    It is not my fault (or the fault of Max) that you, in your home state did get a "privilege disguised as a right", it must have been what you wanted I guess. That is fine by me, but I do not understand why you would have taken this path.
    At this time, we in Wisconsin are doing our best to make sure this same "thing" does not happen to us. You have no right, we want ours. It's that simple.
    All this said, the truth is we might not get what we want. I for one will not even try for any less. My target, and the target of Max is to see our rights restored in Wisconsin. We do not want what you have settled for. We are willing to fight for it. Will we win? I don't know, but why in the world would we "ask" for any less? Why did you?

  5. #5
    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronS View Post
    No need to run and hide.

    It is not my fault (or the fault of Max) that you, in your home state did get a "privilege disguised as a right", it must have been what you wanted I guess. That is fine by me, but I do not understand why you would have taken this path.
    At this time, we in Wisconsin are doing our best to make sure this same "thing" does not happen to us. You have no right, we want ours. It's that simple.
    All this said, the truth is we might not get what we want. I for one will not even try for any less. My target, and the target of Max is to see our rights restored in Wisconsin. We do not want what you have settled for. We are willing to fight for it. Will we win? I don't know, but why in the world would we "ask" for any less? Why did you?
    +1000 Thanks AaronS!

  6. #6
    Regular Member Archangel's Avatar
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    We didn't.

    GeorgiaCarry, the largest grass-roots gun-rights organization in Georgia has been working to rectify years of abuses heaped on law abiding citizens in regards to gun rights, and has an excellent track record of reversing the trend of state and local government restrictions on our rights. Check the record of bills that GeorgiaCarry has been instrumental in getting passed in the last few years since they came onto the scene.

    As a former Wisconsin resident (39 years), I'm aware of how things work up there. Wisconsin was one of the last states to legalize pepper spray. I don't see them jumping feet first into constitutional carry. I wish you the best of luck, and will be happy to be surprised if it happens, but I don't really believe it will.

    I see the first tentative steps into the world of concealed carry laws as being fairly draconian in Wisconsin. Training requirement, many and varied venues where guns may not be carried, etc. I certainly do not agree with any of those restrictions, but with the stranglehold the anti-gunners have on the media up there, and the general attitude of the populous (mainly Milwaukee and Madison), that would be my guess as to how it will shake out.

    I truly, truly, wish pro-gun folks in Wisconsin the best of luck on the issue, but if you look at how the political process has operated in Wisconsin in the past, coupled with the newly elected politicians already backpedaling on the issue.... Well, my hopes are irrelevant...

    Again, I hope I am wrong, I really do. At the very least I was hoping for reciprocity with Georgia. Alas, many of the states that require training do not allow reciprocity for states that do not.

    Again I hope for the best, but with Wisconsin government, I have reservations.

  7. #7
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronS View Post
    No need to run and hide.

    We do not want what you have settled for. We are willing to fight for it. Will we win? I don't know, but why in the world would we "ask" for any less? Why did you?
    +1. Quote of the day. Some people just don't get it, and never will.
    Last edited by oak1971; 01-31-2011 at 01:01 AM.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    I see the first tentative steps into the world of concealed carry laws as being fairly draconian in Wisconsin. Training requirement, many and varied venues where guns may not be carried, etc. I certainly do not agree with any of those restrictions, but with the stranglehold the anti-gunners have on the media up there, and the general attitude of the populous (mainly Milwaukee and Madison), that would be my guess as to how it will shake out.
    I have serious doubts about this being the case. Remember that almost all previous attempts to pass the bill had to chase after a 2/3'rds majority.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    The oath our state representatives took, every one of them.
    More important, for the GOP representatives, they also agreed to support and uphold the WisGOP platform.

    Please hold their feet to the fire on this!

    The Wisconsin GOP platform says:

    Preamble:
    "We oppose efforts to restrict the ownership, manufacture, carry, or sale of firearms by law-abiding citizens."

    Resolutions:
    "CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS

    "The Republican Party of Wisconsin is a vigilant supporter of the right of individuals to keep and bear arms embodied in both the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States and Article I, Section 25, of the Wisconsin Constitution.

    "We therefore oppose all efforts to restrict the ownership, manufacture, transfer, carry, or sale of firearms by law-abiding citizens. We further oppose all efforts to require registration of firearms in the possession of law abiding citizens, as well as efforts to bankrupt firearms manufacturers through frivolous, unethical lawsuits.

    "Instead, we call for proper enforcement of the many existing laws against those who commit crimes. For safety’s sake, we encourage voluntary training in the use of firearms. We cannot ignore the clear lessons of history regarding the tyranny and suffering which can fall upon a disarmed and vulnerable people."
    Last edited by KBCraig; 01-31-2011 at 04:17 AM.

  10. #10
    McX
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    we can all hope our elected's keep their word, but take comfort in the fact; if they ram a permit system down our throats, Wisconsin Carry will make sure we get our permits, we just have to dance and pay for them- revenuing!

  11. #11
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    The only reason I got a permit is so I could carry while visiting relatives & not worry them. (We're all happy, only they don't know how happy they are.)

    IF our legislators forget their promises & bow to the "we want permits" group run by instructors (who stand to profit from a permit system), I want WI to recognize ALL permits from ALL states, for WI residents & non-residents. Totally free market. PA's permit is $25 & is basically a background check.
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  12. #12
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    MKEgal said, "The only reason I got a permit is so I could carry while visiting relatives & not worry them. (We're all happy, only they don't know how happy they are.)"

    I am not attacking anyone that wants to get a permit, that is a personal choice. I am just stating my personal view on it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    IF our legislators forget their promises & bow to the "we want permits" group run by instructors (who stand to profit from a permit system), I want WI to recognize ALL permits from ALL states, for WI residents & non-residents. Totally free market. PA's permit is $25 & is basically a background check.
    I'd like to see that too. But I doubt they will do that either.

    IF (note I said IF) Wisconsin ends up requiring training. Most states that have that requirement stipulate that any reciprocity requires equivalent training.

    Stay on em guys (and gals)! Like I said I wish my brethren in the north the best of luck on this one.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Krusty's Avatar
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    A sample "permit"

    After thinking of the EXPENSE involved in issuing permits I came up with this expense free system. It may not be perfect, but it will cover 98.8% of individuals.

    A check box on the Wisconsin drivers license stating:

    "I choose to carry a firearm, concealed or open." Per Article 1, Section 25 Wisconsin State Constitution

    "I do not choose to carry a firearm."

    No additional fees need to be assessed.

    (The 98.8% figure was just a number I dreamed up.) I think that's how the anti's do it!
    IF YOU WANT TO BURN OUR AMERICAN FLAG, PLEASE WRAP YOURSELF UP IN IT FIRST...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    After thinking of the EXPENSE involved in issuing permits I came up with this expense free system. It may not be perfect, but it will cover 98.8% of individuals.

    A check box on the Wisconsin drivers license stating:

    "I choose to carry a firearm, concealed or open." Per Article 1, Section 25 Wisconsin State Constitution

    "I do not choose to carry a firearm."

    No additional fees need to be assessed.

    (The 98.8% figure was just a number I dreamed up.) I think that's how the anti's do it!
    Would you really want that handled by the Wisconsin DMV?

    I still have nightmares about waiting in endless lines or sitting in a chair with a number for 2 hours....

  16. #16
    McX
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    one thing is certain; new Repub. GOV in office, it's Feb. and the crickets still chirpin.

    added on edit; and i still havent found an appreciable answer as to how to conceal a .45 in shorts and a t-shirt.
    Last edited by McX; 02-11-2011 at 09:33 AM.

  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    one thing is certain; new Repub. GOV in office, it's Feb. and the crickets still chirpin.

    added on edit; and i still havent found an appreciable answer as to how to conceal a .45 in shorts and a t-shirt.
    It can be done, but not to my comfort level.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  18. #18
    Regular Member Big Dipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    I still havent found an appreciable answer as to how to conceal a .45 in shorts and a t-shirt.
    You might want to consider fanny/hip pack, shoulder bag or "murse". Probably all a bit slower than a holster (and maybe not macho enough), but all very well concealed.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    After thinking of the EXPENSE involved in issuing permits I came up with this expense free system. It may not be perfect, but it will cover 98.8% of individuals.

    A check box on the Wisconsin drivers license stating:

    "I choose to carry a firearm, concealed or open." Per Article 1, Section 25 Wisconsin State Constitution

    "I do not choose to carry a firearm."

    No additional fees need to be assessed.

    (The 98.8% figure was just a number I dreamed up.) I think that's how the anti's do it!
    I think that is a great idea. The state already has all the information on the license so a simple check box works.
    I think the 98.8% figure is a tad high though. I think 98.4% is more on the money. Hey I can make up numbers too.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    After thinking of the EXPENSE involved in issuing permits I came up with this expense free system. It may not be perfect, but it will cover 98.8% of individuals.

    A check box on the Wisconsin drivers license stating:

    "I choose to carry a firearm, concealed or open." Per Article 1, Section 25 Wisconsin State Constitution

    "I do not choose to carry a firearm."

    No additional fees need to be assessed.

    (The 98.8% figure was just a number I dreamed up.) I think that's how the anti's do it!
    Extemely simple solution, no additional card to carry, DMV could do a instant check, if felon or other prohibited person could have 3rd item "Firearm Prohibited"

    Lets give this to our legislators as a solution. It especially addresses the issue of officer safety when making a traffic stop.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

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  21. #21
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Thumbs up It really, really works....

    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    ....
    and i still havent found an appreciable answer as to how to conceal a .45 in shorts and a t-shirt.
    http://www.smartcarry.com/
    Dave
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  22. #22
    Regular Member Archangel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    http://www.smartcarry.com/
    I've always had an issue with carrying a loaded gun pointed at my junk. Especially a cocked and locked 1911.

    Maybe it's just me....

  23. #23
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Cool No problemo....

    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    I've always had an issue with carrying a loaded gun pointed at my junk. Especially a cocked and locked 1911.

    Maybe it's just me....
    I have faith in John Moses Browning and a properly maintained Springfield Armory 1911. Anyway, if you'd ever worn a Smartcarry you'd see that unless you're constantly walking around with a bent porn star-type woody, you're not at risk.... I'm sure in no danger....
    Last edited by davegran; 02-11-2011 at 12:12 PM.
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    I have faith in John Moses Browning and a properly maintained Springfield Armory 1911. Anyway, if you'd ever worn a Smartcarry you'd see that unless you're constantly walking around with a bent porn star-type woody, you're not at risk.... I'm sure in no danger....
    What about sitting?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  25. #25
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Cool No problemo....

    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    What about sitting?
    Same answer.
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

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