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Pensacola News Journal - Open carry bill sponser says guns in capitol OK by him
- Thread starter StogieC
- Start date
77zach
Regular Member
So what's the word, do we think sb234 will make it?
HB 517 is the most correct version.
http://myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=45327
http://myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=45327
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
Presuming some provisions are not mis-used to Abolish the 4th Amendment, or to Abolish Private Trade; all this bill does is remove the 'Concealed' requirement from the License.
Media and gun-haters are talking about it as if no more NICS will exist, no more Licensing will exist, etc. They're just plain lying to stir up fear.
...and even if their claims were true, I still don't see what the problem would be. NICS and Licensing do not prevent crimes. All those two things do are create a new group of victim-less crimes, and easy targets for real criminals....
As it stands in Florida, Guns rarely prevent crime. Why? Out of Sight, Out of Mind. A Licensed Gun Carrier has to wait until violent acts are already in progress to draw and probably then have to kill someone. If we could carry our guns openly, many of these scenarios would be prevented merely by the Bad Guys seeing a gun. No need to pull the gun out, no need to point it at anyone, no need to pull the trigger. Open Carry is a measure to DECREASE shootings, and no rational person can argue that it could have any other effect.
Over 40 other States have already made this move in one form or another. It is ironic that, Florida, the 1st State in the entire Country to institute Concealed Carry Permits, is one of the last to figure out what a bad idea requiring Concealment was/is... I, personally used to have such a permit. Having been in 4 scenarios that required the use of my firearm, it is painfully obvious to me how none of them would have happened if my gun were visible. Not to mention, what a pain it is to draw from cover. Or how hard it is to conceal in July! It's almost useless.
The only Concealed Permit Holders who can praise the notion of concealment, are those who still get a feel-good sensation of having a gun against their skin. I admit, I used to be one of them. When placed in a situation where that gun is needed, it's damn near useless. Until you find yourself in that position, and realize it the hard way.... Why should we have to learn that lesson the hard way, at the mercy of a violent criminal?
Roughly 1 out of 100 people in Florida is already carrying a gun. If the Bad Guys SAW these guns, think how dramatically crime would be decreased.
It's Common-Sense.
We've tried banning guns already. Look at places that do. NYC, Boston, Chicago, LA.... Banning guns has had the OPPOSITE effect from what it's proponents advertise. Disarming good people only makes them easy targets for those who don't obey that law.
Let us apply Logic and Science instead of rhetoric and fear-mongering.
Besides, it helps gun-haters. They hate Gun Owners so much, but they have no idea that every time they walk into a Crowded Shopping Center, SuperStore, Restaurant, etc... Who's carrying? Do you count 300 people in there? That means 3 of them have a gun, most likely. It will give Gun Haters, and Gun Owner Haters, an easy way to know whom they should visit their prejudice upon. They'll actually be able to see us and identify us. By their own logic, this is a good thing. As it stands, they have no idea if the person standing behind them in line at the Super Market has a gun or not. If this law passes, they'll be able to make a spectacle of themselves with their hateful tirades, instead of trying to feign legitimacy by writing it in a newspaper.
Media and gun-haters are talking about it as if no more NICS will exist, no more Licensing will exist, etc. They're just plain lying to stir up fear.
...and even if their claims were true, I still don't see what the problem would be. NICS and Licensing do not prevent crimes. All those two things do are create a new group of victim-less crimes, and easy targets for real criminals....
As it stands in Florida, Guns rarely prevent crime. Why? Out of Sight, Out of Mind. A Licensed Gun Carrier has to wait until violent acts are already in progress to draw and probably then have to kill someone. If we could carry our guns openly, many of these scenarios would be prevented merely by the Bad Guys seeing a gun. No need to pull the gun out, no need to point it at anyone, no need to pull the trigger. Open Carry is a measure to DECREASE shootings, and no rational person can argue that it could have any other effect.
Over 40 other States have already made this move in one form or another. It is ironic that, Florida, the 1st State in the entire Country to institute Concealed Carry Permits, is one of the last to figure out what a bad idea requiring Concealment was/is... I, personally used to have such a permit. Having been in 4 scenarios that required the use of my firearm, it is painfully obvious to me how none of them would have happened if my gun were visible. Not to mention, what a pain it is to draw from cover. Or how hard it is to conceal in July! It's almost useless.
The only Concealed Permit Holders who can praise the notion of concealment, are those who still get a feel-good sensation of having a gun against their skin. I admit, I used to be one of them. When placed in a situation where that gun is needed, it's damn near useless. Until you find yourself in that position, and realize it the hard way.... Why should we have to learn that lesson the hard way, at the mercy of a violent criminal?
Roughly 1 out of 100 people in Florida is already carrying a gun. If the Bad Guys SAW these guns, think how dramatically crime would be decreased.
It's Common-Sense.
We've tried banning guns already. Look at places that do. NYC, Boston, Chicago, LA.... Banning guns has had the OPPOSITE effect from what it's proponents advertise. Disarming good people only makes them easy targets for those who don't obey that law.
Let us apply Logic and Science instead of rhetoric and fear-mongering.
Besides, it helps gun-haters. They hate Gun Owners so much, but they have no idea that every time they walk into a Crowded Shopping Center, SuperStore, Restaurant, etc... Who's carrying? Do you count 300 people in there? That means 3 of them have a gun, most likely. It will give Gun Haters, and Gun Owner Haters, an easy way to know whom they should visit their prejudice upon. They'll actually be able to see us and identify us. By their own logic, this is a good thing. As it stands, they have no idea if the person standing behind them in line at the Super Market has a gun or not. If this law passes, they'll be able to make a spectacle of themselves with their hateful tirades, instead of trying to feign legitimacy by writing it in a newspaper.
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3.7% of all Floridians have a CWFL (Jan DACS, licenses issued to Florida residents. : 2010 U.S. Census, Florida total population). Many don't carry daily so the 1% probably isn't too far off the mark.
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
I suggest that there are too many Felony-level punishments. It is disproportionate. Most of these should not even be Misdemeanors, merely Civil Fines; like a traffic ticket.
Razor Blades and Box Cutters? Really? How is an electrician going to do his job at a school? How will we open packages? It's absurd. Aren't Scissors just 2 box cutters stuck together? Phucking dumb. I carry things like that around simply because I'm a useful human being.
Hell, the prohibitions shouldn't exist at all, I'm being pragmatic... <-- Did you see that? Me?! Being pragmatic?! What next?
Razor Blades and Box Cutters? Really? How is an electrician going to do his job at a school? How will we open packages? It's absurd. Aren't Scissors just 2 box cutters stuck together? Phucking dumb. I carry things like that around simply because I'm a useful human being.
Hell, the prohibitions shouldn't exist at all, I'm being pragmatic... <-- Did you see that? Me?! Being pragmatic?! What next?
brboyer
Regular Member
Actually it's 5.6% of the eligible population (>21)...
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
What does the number become if you exclude Felons and other Prohibited Persons from the tally; since they are not eligible for an expensive chance to beg for permission and be treated like a sex offender?
77zach
Regular Member
Ixtow said:
"As it stands in Florida, Guns rarely prevent crime. Why? Out of Sight, Out of Mind. A Licensed Gun Carrier has to wait until violent acts are already in progress to draw and probably then have to kill someone. If we could carry our guns openly, many of these scenarios would be prevented merely by the Bad Guys seeing a gun. No need to pull the gun out, no need to point it at anyone, no need to pull the trigger. Open Carry is a measure to DECREASE shootings, and no rational person can argue that it could have any other effect."
Could not agree more. I'm always puzzled at these self defense experts who poo poo OC because you're "giving away your element of surprise." I certainly can imagine situations where CC would be best, tactically. More likely is that a BG won't see your firearm in his precrime nervousness, assuming you are not the target. If you are the target, he's going to see that gun and wait until an unarmed person comes along. When you CC, you've conceded that your gun will most likely not be used to diffuse a situation, but only to respond with deadly force AFTER a crime commences.
I've never heard of anyone attacking OCer's except for cops. It probably has happened but I've never read any stories.
"As it stands in Florida, Guns rarely prevent crime. Why? Out of Sight, Out of Mind. A Licensed Gun Carrier has to wait until violent acts are already in progress to draw and probably then have to kill someone. If we could carry our guns openly, many of these scenarios would be prevented merely by the Bad Guys seeing a gun. No need to pull the gun out, no need to point it at anyone, no need to pull the trigger. Open Carry is a measure to DECREASE shootings, and no rational person can argue that it could have any other effect."
Could not agree more. I'm always puzzled at these self defense experts who poo poo OC because you're "giving away your element of surprise." I certainly can imagine situations where CC would be best, tactically. More likely is that a BG won't see your firearm in his precrime nervousness, assuming you are not the target. If you are the target, he's going to see that gun and wait until an unarmed person comes along. When you CC, you've conceded that your gun will most likely not be used to diffuse a situation, but only to respond with deadly force AFTER a crime commences.
I've never heard of anyone attacking OCer's except for cops. It probably has happened but I've never read any stories.
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
"The Element of Surprise" is for Ambushes and Guerilla Warfare. There is nothing defensive about it.
By it's very nature, defense is known. If it is unknown, then the aggressor feels free to proceed. The unknown deters nothing. Waiting until this point is reached is counter-intuitive to the concept of peaceful, civil society.
Then again, there is nothing civil about our society, so this dynamic should not be a surprise.
By it's very nature, defense is known. If it is unknown, then the aggressor feels free to proceed. The unknown deters nothing. Waiting until this point is reached is counter-intuitive to the concept of peaceful, civil society.
Then again, there is nothing civil about our society, so this dynamic should not be a surprise.
Get a response from your House Representative
I contacted my Rep (Will Weatherford, House District 61) and all I got was a "thanks for your email" response. I went on Twitter and followed @willweatherford and am trying to get a response via some Tweets. Maybe I can get an answer that way.
Will talks like a good conservative, but until he makes his intentions known, I won't know where he stands.
Maybe if we all badger our Reps a little bit, we can see some movement on this bill.
I contacted my Rep (Will Weatherford, House District 61) and all I got was a "thanks for your email" response. I went on Twitter and followed @willweatherford and am trying to get a response via some Tweets. Maybe I can get an answer that way.
Will talks like a good conservative, but until he makes his intentions known, I won't know where he stands.
Maybe if we all badger our Reps a little bit, we can see some movement on this bill.
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
If there is one valid, documented story of an OCer being attacked by someone other than a Cop, please bring it forward.
Also, let us cite the numerous occasions in which Cops have attacked not only OCers, but other people who were not doing anything wrong. It's all over this forum and others.
People who know and exercise their rights, regardless of which way they exercise them, are being targeted. It's not just OC. Government and their Police are doing far more harm to citizens than all 'criminal' elements combined.
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
No one is willing to face the wrath of the Media. When someone brings this to the floor, I'll wet myself.