• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Detained & Disarmed By Clark County Sheriff

bwboley

Activist Member
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
252
Location
Portland/Vancouver, ,
Happend Sat night Sun morning around 3:30 or 4Am we were leaving a friends house and we were pulled over and turns out my friends lic was suspended so he asked any guns or knifes i said i have a firearm right hip so he kinda gets lil loud had me put hands on the dash and told me not to move or i could be shot if it look like i was going for it so i complyed. Then he said slowy get out hands up on roof of the truck and dont move he pulls my firearm out pulls the mag and round in chamber and my spare mag then handcuffs me. Then ask weres my wallet so i told him he pulls out my ID and Concealed permint then goes run them and it took like 10 to 15 mins before he lets me go and puts my fiearm in the bed of the truck says wait till we leave to re holster it.
 

Deleted_User

Guest
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
807
Happend Sat night Sun morning around 3:30 or 4Am we were leaving a friends house and we were pulled over and turns out my friends lic was suspended so he asked any guns or knifes i said i have a firearm right hip so he kinda gets lil loud had me put hands on the dash and told me not to move or i could be shot if it look like i was going for it so i complyed. Then he said slowy get out hands up on roof of the truck and dont move he pulls my firearm out pulls the mag and round in chamber and my spare mag then handcuffs me. Then ask weres my wallet so i told him he pulls out my ID and Concealed permint then goes run them and it took like 10 to 15 mins before he lets me go and puts my fiearm in the bed of the truck says wait till we leave to re holster it.

First off, at least you're SAFE! At least everyone is safe. I will hold any an ALL comments about LEO actions. This is a County, though, that won't let you enter the courthouse OC without a CPL and ID! But, this isn't about that. Just glad to hear you came home safe!
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Deputy's name? Cruiser number? Will your friends corroborate your story? Any audio? Write your encounter up, get your friends to do the same and get witnesses to certify the statements. Talk to a lawyer. Give nothing to the police, no statements, just file the complaint and see what happens. If you give them your or your friend's statements they will use them to counter your complaint. Possibly intimidate you or your friends.

Play it close to your vest.
 
Last edited:

tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,326
Location
Roy, WA
When asked if there are any guns in the car, in the future say "I don't consent to searches". You were the passenger and he had no RAS to talk to you. If he were to proceed and found your gun, it would be illegal search and seizure.
 

deanf

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
1,789
Location
N47º 12’ x W122º 10’
Legal.

All passengers in a car stop are detained. As such, the officer has the authority to direct their conduct to ensure his safety.

As much as people here may not like it, officers do have the legal authority to disarm, pat down search, and cuff during a detention. Morally, it is another question . . .

Read this: http://www.tdcorg.com/download/Passenger_in_a_Carstop_is_detained-10-01-07.pdf
 

FMCDH

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
2,037
Location
St. Louis, MO
Legal.

All passengers in a car stop are detained. As such, the officer has the authority to direct their conduct to ensure his safety.

As much as people here may not like it, officers do have the legal authority to disarm, pat down search, and cuff during a detention. Morally, it is another question . . .

Read this: http://www.tdcorg.com/download/Passenger_in_a_Carstop_is_detained-10-01-07.pdf

Good read, thx for that Dean.

So, any passengers are basically presumed suspect by association it sounds like, and makes them fair game for reasonable scrutiny.

From the way the OP writes, the officer spent more time on the fact he had a pistol with a CPL then he spent on the driver, but that could just be because it's his primary focus of the incident.

To the OP, why were you guys pulled over in the first place? What was the outcome for the driver?
 

jbone

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,230
Location
WA
More input number five

Just playing the devilS advocate here.
bUT, Bwboley still hasn’t established why they were pulled over. Was it expired license plate tab, or an expired drivers license? What caused the traffic stop was it speeding, driving crazy, broken tail light, ran a red light, what? And maybe the violation (the reason they were pulled over) and the fact that a driver had an expired driver license (if that what bwboley was referring too), and a person with a firearm in the vehicle, the officer felt a bit suspicious at 3:30 or 4 am.
Possible and reasonable for an officer to detain. But the story lacks a lot of info!
 

Dave Workman

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
1,874
Location
, ,
Legal.

All passengers in a car stop are detained. As such, the officer has the authority to direct their conduct to ensure his safety.

As much as people here may not like it, officers do have the legal authority to disarm, pat down search, and cuff during a detention. Morally, it is another question . . .

Read this: http://www.tdcorg.com/download/Passenger_in_a_Carstop_is_detained-10-01-07.pdf

Exactly.
My advice: Don't ride with pals who are suspended. Of course, you probably had no way of knowing, but you DO know your pal, right?

We may not like this sort of thing, but the deputy did not do anything out of the ordinary, as Dean notes.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Legal.

All passengers in a car stop are detained. As such, the officer has the authority to direct their conduct to ensure his safety.

As much as people here may not like it, officers do have the legal authority to disarm, pat down search, and cuff during a detention. Morally, it is another question . . .

Read this: http://www.tdcorg.com/download/Passenger_in_a_Carstop_is_detained-10-01-07.pdf

Detained, but are passengers required to answer questions or give ID in Washington? If so can you cite the law that requires it? They don't in Michigan. Just the driver has to produce a DL.

But in Michigan you have to declare you are carrying a concealed weapon (If in fact you are) immediately when you are detained, even if a passenger.
 
Last edited:

FMCDH

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
2,037
Location
St. Louis, MO
Detained, but are passengers required to answer questions or give ID in Washington? If so can you cite the law that requires it? They don't in Michigan. Just the driver has to produce a DL.

But in Michigan you have to declare you are carrying a concealed weapon (If in fact you are) immediately when you are detained, even if a passenger.

Well, let's look at the facts as we know them.

1. The officer has the right to control the scene for his and others safety, OP is officially being detained and is part of an un-specified traffic stop.

2. Officer asks a typical and court accepted question along the lines of officer safety, and the OP voluntarily answers, admitting to possessing a possible loaded firearm in a vehicle, an action that requires a CPL.

Note: In Washington, it's not required to tell an officer you are carrying a firearm when conversing, but you also cannot lie if asked without taking the chance of being considered "obstructing" if you are being detained and questioned.

3. Officer has every right to request to see the CPL to verify legality of carry, and secures firearm and carrier of firearm in the process, which again, is an action upheld by the courts "for officer safety".

4. Officer does check of CPL which is found valid and returns the firearm, CPL and license back to OP, though perhaps not in the way the OP would have preferred.

5. Details are fuzzy after that, but as long as the officer didn’t run the SN from the firearm, he's done everything in a manner consistent with current law, though perhaps a bit roughly. Running the SN from the firearm would have required further RAS that the gun was possessed illegally as far as I understand it.

So, to answer your direct question, as soon as the OP admitted he had the pistol in the vehicle, yes, he had to show ID if the officer asked for it, at least, he had to show the CPL...as for the drivers license, I don’t believe so, but I could be wrong.

Personally, I think the officer went a bit overboard with the handcuffing and digging through the OPs wallet.
 

ShooterMcGavin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
208
Location
Location, Location
Well, let's look at the facts as we know them.

1. The officer has the right to control the scene for his and others safety, OP is officially being detained and is part of an un-specified traffic stop.

2. Officer asks a typical and court accepted question along the lines of officer safety, and the OP voluntarily answers, admitting to possessing a possible loaded firearm in a vehicle, an action that requires a CPL.

Note: In Washington, it's not required to tell an officer you are carrying a firearm when conversing, but you also cannot lie if asked without taking the chance of being considered "obstructing" if you are being detained and questioned.

3. Officer has every right to request to see the CPL to verify legality of carry, and secures firearm and carrier of firearm in the process, which again, is an action upheld by the courts "for officer safety".

4. Officer does check of CPL which is found valid and returns the firearm, CPL and license back to OP, though perhaps not in the way the OP would have preferred.

5. Details are fuzzy after that, but as long as the officer didn’t run the SN from the firearm, he's done everything in a manner consistent with current law, though perhaps a bit roughly. Running the SN from the firearm would have required further RAS that the gun was possessed illegally as far as I understand it.

So, to answer your direct question, as soon as the OP admitted he had the pistol in the vehicle, yes, he had to show ID if the officer asked for it, at least, he had to show the CPL...as for the drivers license, I don’t believe so, but I could be wrong.

Personally, I think the officer went a bit overboard with the handcuffing and digging through the OPs wallet.
Great post. Thanks!

In reference to the above bolded text (if my bolding works), what if the passenger simply replied "I have nothing to say". Would the officer then have justification to remove the passenger from the car for a pat-down and further inspection? He probably would, I'd assume, since we have concluded that the passenger is being detained in this situation.
 
Last edited:

jbone

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,230
Location
WA
It's not about the OP I say

I think we are focusing too hard on the passenger, there is a reason the driver was pulled over, although still not cleared-up. It would appear we have an officer at 3:30 am, perhaps some short of moving violation, or vehicle description matching instance, a driver with an expired drivers license, and a person that when asked of freely admits to possessing a firearm. Seriously, I thing the officer had ample RAS to detain and sort things out.

The OP should’nt have made this story about him, or her. I say he, she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, with an unlicensed driver who was pulled over for some undisclosed reason.

I hope the OP can return to clear this mystery up!
 

FMCDH

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
2,037
Location
St. Louis, MO
I think we are focusing too hard on the passenger, there is a reason the driver was pulled over, although still not cleared-up. It would appear we have an officer at 3:30 am, perhaps some short of moving violation, or vehicle description matching instance, a driver with an expired drivers license, and a person that when asked of freely admits to possessing a firearm. Seriously, I thing the officer had ample RAS to detain and sort things out.

The OP should’nt have made this story about him, or her. I say he, she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, with an unlicensed driver who was pulled over for some undisclosed reason.

I hope the OP can return to clear this mystery up!

O, I don't disagree at all.

At this point, I am more interested in know if the officer pulled them over for a valid reason, or if he was equally discriminating against all vehicles that passed him on that street at 0330 hours.
 

SpyderTattoo

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
1,015
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
If asked for CPL he must produce it, in this circumstance. But, he was not in control of the vehicle and therefore doesn't have to hand over the driver's license. No requirement to carry your identification papers with you. ( Again, not in control of the vehicle. This is along the same lines why I open-carry "sterile".
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Well, let's look at the facts as we know them.

1. The officer has the right to control the scene for his and others safety, OP is officially being detained and is part of an un-specified traffic stop.

2. Officer asks a typical and court accepted question along the lines of officer safety, and the OP voluntarily answers, admitting to possessing a possible loaded firearm in a vehicle, an action that requires a CPL.

Note: In Washington, it's not required to tell an officer you are carrying a firearm when conversing, but you also cannot lie if asked without taking the chance of being considered "obstructing" if you are being detained and questioned.

3. Officer has every right to request to see the CPL to verify legality of carry, and secures firearm and carrier of firearm in the process, which again, is an action upheld by the courts "for officer safety".

4. Officer does check of CPL which is found valid and returns the firearm, CPL and license back to OP, though perhaps not in the way the OP would have preferred.

5. Details are fuzzy after that, but as long as the officer didn’t run the SN from the firearm, he's done everything in a manner consistent with current law, though perhaps a bit roughly. Running the SN from the firearm would have required further RAS that the gun was possessed illegally as far as I understand it.

So, to answer your direct question, as soon as the OP admitted he had the pistol in the vehicle, yes, he had to show ID if the officer asked for it, at least, he had to show the CPL...as for the drivers license, I don’t believe so, but I could be wrong.

Personally, I think the officer went a bit overboard with the handcuffing and digging through the OPs wallet.
My question was does a passenger have to give ID or answer questions? I understand if he sees the gun he can demand a CPL to confirm if the concealing of the firearm is lawful
 

bwboley

Activist Member
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
252
Location
Portland/Vancouver, ,
Sorry For not answering soon im not sure why we were pulled over havnt talk to my friend but he has H.I.D headlights thats are to bright so could have been that but i not 100% sure. And as for cops name and car number i spced it i was worried about the shiny thing on my wrist and why they were on. It was my first time being detained and was really nervous andi tryed to record but he he had me put my phone down before i could get it going
 
Top