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Bloomberg's at it again

rickc1962

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Messages
192
Location
Battle Mountain, NV.
I just posted this in response.

In my opinion... the seller did not apply due dilligence in his continuance of the sale when the straw buyer indicated he 'Prob'ly couldn't pass the background check'. The law requires that the sale be intra-state and the buyer produced an AZ drivers license for proof of that. No private seller has any means to verify any other qualifications other than (forinstance) the buyer produced a valid AZ CWP permit which would indicate that a background check had been completed. An AZ CWP is not required intra-state any longer but is advisable for certain situations/areas that still require the bearer to have them. OK... I can live with that even tho I don't agree with it.

Not just to complain... but I do recognize and will offer a solution to the so-called 'gun show loop-hole' as applicable to AZ. Private sales would be contingent upon proof of state residency AND possession of a valid AZ CWP. That would satisfy the 'background investigation' that the Bloombergers get their panties inna wad about.

Bloomburg is a control freak, attention whore plain and simple. He has no legitimate authority past NYC limits.


For all you 'Zonies... what say you 'bout a potential buyer (that you don't know) presenting an AZ CWP and AZ DL during a private sale/transfer? 'Covers both of your asses w/o any doubts.

I`m sorry Sonora Rebel, but I`ve got to disagree with you on this. I don`t have a CWP and don`t plan on gettin` one anytime soon. Bloomberg broke existing laws, if the seller knew the buyer couldn't pass a background check, then he broke the law, and if he didn`t hear the buyer say this, and sold the weapon in good faith, the buyer should have known he was braking the law. Before you say " he should have known ", I understand the bad guys don`t care if they brake laws, that's what makes them bad guys, so lets try enforcing the laws we already have, and not put more restrictions on the law abiding, we here in Az. are making some real good steps toward absolute 2nd Amendment freedoms, lets` not stop now. Lets put Bloomberg and his gang of vermen where they belong, behind tall walls, where they can spend the next 20 years, having people with guns watch them make big rocks, into little rocks. If that don`t work, then I will jump on your bandwagon.
 

Sonora Rebel

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Therein lies the conundrum... Damned if you do 'n damned if you don't. Ok... the only thing it would impact is private sales, nothing else. The CWP satisfy's the background question. There's no other option for doing that. 18-20 yr olds can't buy from an FFL, yet they can buy from a private dealer. Lowering the age for a CWP would remedy that. Lowering the age to conceal would be another plus if in that age group and choose to do that. Due diligence on the part of the seller would be satisfied (legally) when the buyer presents their AZ drivers license and CWP, just as due dilligence is satisfied by the BATF Form 4473 when purchasing from an FFL.

The anti's keep screaming about the 'gunshow loophole'. If they keep screaming loud 'n long enough... it could result in a national ban ALL private sales/xfers of firearms. That's what they want. Is that what you want to risk? 'Can't have your cake 'n eat it.
 

crisisweasel

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Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
265
Location
Pima County, Arizona, USA
I suspect the endgame will be a federal law which makes selling to a prohibited possessor illegal and punishable by some ridiculous amount of jailtime. There will be no "knowingly" involved in the statute.

They will probably be able to sell this to the public. It will result in a nationwide chill on gun sales overall. Alternately an exception might be made for those who go through NICS (that will probably be the compromise necessary to pass such legislation). Something like:

"Except for sellers who have submitted a backround check request through NICS, any person who sells or transfers a firearm to a prohibited possessor shall be imprisoned for..."

The effect will be that inheritance will be protected (even if the inheritors are prohibited possessors, the person doing the transfer will be dead and not care), and you'll see an overall reduction in private gunshow sales.

I *hope not*, but there's no good option here. My preference would be to end government databases altogether because I don't think government has any legitimate power to limit gun sales in this way, and secondarily from a more utilitarian standpoint, I really don't think NICS has any impact on the number of criminals owning weapons.

But of course, abolishing NICS is probably not politically feasible. I think it gives people the illusion that there are effective checks in place, much like security theater at airports.

Some interesting NICS stats here for anyone who is interested:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Background_Checks_for_Firearm_Transfers,_2005
 

Machoduck

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
566
Location
Covington, WA & Keenesburg, CO
Weasel, that's a perfect avatar! I've always gotten a kick out of your screen name but considering a weasel who would try to benefit from a crisis, you've chosen the poster boy. Schmucky Chumer has been an enemy of The Constitution for as long as I've ever known about him. He's another Progressive, world socialist weasel (again, no disrespect to you or your screen name) who can't be open about his plans or methods. Of course, there's nothing new about people of that stripe being proponents of gun control.

MD
 

rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
Often it is constructive to pause , review, and reflect upon the "commerce clause" the over-worked source of federal mischief.

Article I, section 8 :( under the powers delegated to Congress by THE PEOPLE

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, the several states, the Indian tribes.

This power to regulate commerce was delegated to the U.S. Congress in order that commercial transactions occuring between The United States, foreign nations, the several states, and Indian tribes would be uniformly regulated.

This "commerce clause" does NOT delegate any power to the U.S. Congress to regulate the internal commercial POLICIES OF foreign nations, the several states, or the Indian tribes.

The U.S. Congress may only establish regulations affecting the actual commercial INTERCOURSE occuring BETWEEN the federal government of these United States AND foreign nations, the several states, and the Indian tribes. This power to regulate is tansactional specific, and does not extend into the realm of regulating the respective commercial codes of foreign nations, the several states, or the Indian tribes.

A reasonably fair analogy is the power of Congress to establish post offices. The fact that the mailman goes door to door to your home and mine in order to affect the transaction of delivering our mail to our mailbox - does not permit him to enter our home, take a bath, shave and recline in our recliner. The federal government has no authority to regulate my disposition of my mail - unless I place it inside another stamped envelope and reintroduce it into the USPS system.

My point is that Congress's use of the commerce power has evolved from the "surface-vessle" that it was designed to function as into a "nuclear submarine" that dives deep and has taken up residence in every aspect of our lives.

Congress's power to regulate interstate commerce was exercised when the Glock was originally shipped from the factory in Georgia to the FFL who originally sold it to a customer. The presumptive power to regulate future transactions involving that gun within one of the several states simply does not derive from Article I, Section 8. It derives soley from federal case law holding that once in interstate commerce - forever in interstate commerce.
 
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rickc1962

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Messages
192
Location
Battle Mountain, NV.
Therein lies the conundrum... Damned if you do 'n damned if you don't. Ok... the only thing it would impact is private sales, nothing else. The CWP satisfy's the background question. There's no other option for doing that. 18-20 yr olds can't buy from an FFL, yet they can buy from a private dealer. Lowering the age for a CWP would remedy that. Lowering the age to conceal would be another plus if in that age group and choose to do that. Due diligence on the part of the seller would be satisfied (legally) when the buyer presents their AZ drivers license and CWP, just as due dilligence is satisfied by the BATF Form 4473 when purchasing from an FFL.

The anti's keep screaming about the 'gunshow loophole'. If they keep screaming loud 'n long enough... it could result in a national ban ALL private sales/xfers of firearms. That's what they want. Is that what you want to risk? 'Can't have your cake 'n eat it.

How `bout this... They don`t do any background checks, let anyone who chooses to buy a firearm do so, BUT, BUT, BUT, if a bad guy does a crime with a firearm, where there is no bodily harm, ( robbery, burglary, car theft, ect...ect...) the bad guy upon conviction, does a minimum of 10 years of hard labor, if there is bodily harm, ( rape, murder, child molestation, ect...ect...) then the bad guy has 90 days to be before a jury, if convicted, the bad guy has another 60 days for an appeal, if the bad guy loses that, then within 30 days, they walk the bad guy to the gallows, put a cowboy necktie on the bad guy, and show other bad guys that crime just don't pay!
 

Sonora Rebel

Regular Member
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Aug 6, 2008
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How `bout this... They don`t do any background checks, let anyone who chooses to buy a firearm do so, BUT, BUT, BUT, if a bad guy does a crime with a firearm, where there is no bodily harm, ( robbery, burglary, car theft, ect...ect...) the bad guy upon conviction, does a minimum of 10 years of hard labor, if there is bodily harm, ( rape, murder, child molestation, ect...ect...) then the bad guy has 90 days to be before a jury, if convicted, the bad guy has another 60 days for an appeal, if the bad guy loses that, then within 30 days, they walk the bad guy to the gallows, put a cowboy necktie on the bad guy, and show other bad guys that crime just don't pay!

Gun Control Act of 1968, 18USC CNX that for the most part... 4473 or not. Due diligence lies with the seller. Most of the time added for committing a crime with a firearm are not consecutive years added, but will run run concurrent with whatever time is sentenced for the offense. In essence... 'so what'? This isnt the 19th or early part of the 20th centuries. I dunno 'bout you, but I'd rather prevent some people from legally obtaining firearms before the fact. Short of embedding prohibited persons with a microchip for that purpose, the only positive method of vetting is presentation of a valid AZ CWP and AZ DL.
 

crisisweasel

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Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
265
Location
Pima County, Arizona, USA
Weasel.... OMG... change your avitar... I just blew Chucky chunks. Blaaahhh!

I was going to use a photo of Howard Metzenbaum but I thought it'd lack the visceral effect I was going for.

Besides, let's face it: Charles Schumer is pure sex. You know they say we all fall somewhere on a spectrum of heterosexuality and homosexuality but I didn't buy it. Until one night I saw Charles Schumer on the television.

God, I'd love for him to make sweet, sweet love to me.

If you're out there, Charles Schumer, googling your own name (and I know that you do), all I'm going to say is you, and me. In Paris. In the Spring. Intoxicated by the smell of roses, and the gossamer scent of European gun control.

Hold me, Charles. Hold me close. And tight.
 
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