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Thread: OCing on a motorcycle?

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    OCing on a motorcycle?

    I know you need a CPL when carrying in your car, but what about on a motorcycle?

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    I do recall this being debated before. I would see it as you are in (on in this case) a motor vehicle, so you would need a CPL in order to be loaded and legal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnsmith1521 View Post
    I know you need a CPL when carrying in your car, but what about on a motorcycle?
    This topic has been beaten with a stick numerous times. The law states you must have a CPL when carrying in a vehicle. Some people say no because you are on a motorcycle. I believe the intent of the law covers motorcycles as well.
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    The RCW prohibiting loaded long gun carry specifically mentions both in and on a vehicle. The RCW requiring a CPL for carrying a loaded handgun only mentions in a vehicle. The different wording on two very similar RCWs is one of the reasons that I believe that "unlicensed" loaded OC on a motorcycle is legal.

    Whenever this is brought up, people seem to get caught up on the vehicular aspect. I look at it from a concealment standpoint. Your pistol is very concealed inside your vehicle even if you are OC. Your pistol is just as visible on a motorcycle as it is performing any other legal activity (walking, shopping, etc..). It just makes sense that the point of requiring a CONCEALED pistol license in a vehicle is because your pistol is now CONCEALED. It doesn't have anything to do with the vehicle itself unless it conceals your pistol.

    IANAL - the above is just my opinion and not legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Cowin View Post
    The RCW prohibiting loaded long gun carry specifically mentions both in and on a vehicle. The RCW requiring a CPL for carrying a loaded handgun only mentions in a vehicle. The different wording on two very similar RCWs is one of the reasons that I believe that "unlicensed" loaded OC on a motorcycle is legal.

    Whenever this is brought up, people seem to get caught up on the vehicular aspect. I look at it from a concealment standpoint. Your pistol is very concealed inside your vehicle even if you are OC. Your pistol is just as visible on a motorcycle as it is performing any other legal activity (walking, shopping, etc..). It just makes sense that the point of requiring a CONCEALED pistol license in a vehicle is because your pistol is now CONCEALED. It doesn't have anything to do with the vehicle itself unless it conceals your pistol.

    IANAL - the above is just my opinion and not legal advice.
    That seems quite logical. I wonder if there will ever be a case to clear that up. Or maybe someone could ask the AG.
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    There is the exemption for lawful outdoor activity. This could easily be claimed in the case of a dual sport type motorcycle.

    Edit to add: I am not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Of course I woke up in the bath tub full of ice and a missing kidney...............
    Last edited by Sparky508; 01-31-2011 at 09:34 PM.

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    But I sometimes ride a motorcycle to go fishing or hiking. 9.41.060 (8)

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    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
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    Roger that trigger, I wasn't trying to limit the exceptions.

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    I haven't been rousted for OC on a M/C (tho have for numerous other reasons)
    I have been given both the stink-eye and thumbs up by LE for it in the past.
    My approach has always been that loaded carry (who would carry unloaded, after all) comes under vehicular transport and requires a CPL. But, IANAL either, so I s'pose someone could be the guinea pig for this. Because weather is often uncertain, I more often carry concealed, so the CPL becomes necessary on that point. 'Sides, I have the CPL, why further concern myself? I take enough heat for the M/C alone.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky508 View Post
    This could easily be claimed in the case of a dual sport type motorcycle.
    I own that very type of motorcycle, a Kawasaki KLR 650. I've OC'd on it countless times, with nary a problem, from Seattle to Olympia to Whidbey Island to Kitsap County, all around the Puget Sound. Even passed a convoy of Stryker vehicles on their way to Ft Lewis on I-5 while I was OC'ing with a thigh holster. Those soldiers stared and stared and stared. I waved and passed them. I do have a CPL, and IANAL.
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    Oft discussed, but basically no one wants to be the test case. Can't say I blame them either.

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    I think I'll try it this summer and see what happens... I have a CPL so either way I'll be ok... I have a feeling a Leo will still treat it like any other stop... Just depends on the Leo.. But I have to say, with all the run-ins I've had with leo's only fedeal way made a big deal out of it...

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    In one of the long debates on this I believe it was pointed out the you required to have one even on a Bicycle.

    Edit to change need to required to have one, since I don't believe "need" to be appropriate.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 02-01-2011 at 11:23 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
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    Has anyone ever asked the AG about his opinion on this? It has come up enough times, in the past, but never with a firm answer, or opinion that would stay one side or the other.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky508 View Post
    Has anyone ever asked the AG about his opinion on this? It has come up enough times, in the past, but never with a firm answer, or opinion that would stay one side or the other.
    Asking for an Ag opinion is limited to very few people, we can't but Lammo can!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Asking for an Ag opinion is limited to very few people, we can't but Lammo can!
    I don't think I can personally but the office can. Since the boss man rides I may be able to get him to make the request. I will try and let you all know what comes of it.
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    Stare

    Quote Originally Posted by aktion View Post
    I. Even passed a convoy of Stryker vehicles on their way to Ft Lewis on I-5 while I was OC'ing with a thigh holster. Those soldiers stared and stared and stared. I waved and passed them. I do have a CPL, and IANAL.
    They stared because they are jelous. The only place we can OC is in Iraq or Afganistan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lammo View Post
    I don't think I can personally but the office can. Since the boss man rides I may be able to get him to make the request. I will try and let you all know what comes of it.
    Awesome wish we had more prosecutors like you in this state. Thanks Lammo! No expectations but the fact you are willing to ask says a lot.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Awesome wish we had more prosecutors like you in this state. Thanks Lammo! No expectations but the fact you are willing to ask says a lot.
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnsmith1521 View Post
    I know you need a CPL when carrying in your car, but what about on a motorcycle?
    Just get a CPL and you don't need to worry. It's a good idea to have a CPL anyway for those times you need it. When I ride my Harley, I'm covered.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

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    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Awesome wish we had more prosecutors like you in this state. Thanks Lammo! No expectations but the fact you are willing to ask says a lot.
    You're making me blush. :-) Talked to the boss and he understands the issue and is willing to submit the request to the AG. Now all I have to do is find a template to follow and get it to him and then we'll see if the AG responds. I seem to recall a thread from a while back about AGOs, possibly regarding the Seattle park ban. I'll do a search of the forum and see what I can find.
    IAALBIAAFTDPASNIPHCBCALA
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  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lammo View Post
    You're making me blush. :-) Talked to the boss and he understands the issue and is willing to submit the request to the AG. Now all I have to do is find a template to follow and get it to him and then we'll see if the AG responds. I seem to recall a thread from a while back about AGOs, possibly regarding the Seattle park ban. I'll do a search of the forum and see what I can find.
    +1
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lammo View Post
    You're making me blush. :-) Talked to the boss and he understands the issue and is willing to submit the request to the AG. Now all I have to do is find a template to follow and get it to him and then we'll see if the AG responds. I seem to recall a thread from a while back about AGOs, possibly regarding the Seattle park ban. I'll do a search of the forum and see what I can find.
    Ever notice how bosses are like that? Ask them for something like this and they find a way for you to do the work but it will be over their name and signature. Doesn't matter who the boss is, they all seem to have read the same "manual".
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Ever notice how bosses are like that? Ask them for something like this and they find a way for you to do the work but it will be over their name and signature. Doesn't matter who the boss is, they all seem to have read the same "manual".
    That's why they're the boss!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by geojohn View Post
    That's why they're the boss!
    I never ask my employees to never do anything I haven't or won't do myself. Just comes to a point where, it's easier to pay someone else to do it.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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