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News article concerning Kwikrnu

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WCrawford

Regular Member
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Dec 8, 2007
Messages
592
Location
Nashville, Tennessee, United States
I too was sympathetic (a guy walking in the woods with a legal firearm) until I found out it was all planned out to sue and get a paycheck. How about when he said that if he couldn't get his "right" to carry back that he would do what he could so that noone could carry?

So what if he wanted to sue? Do people who have their rights violated only have your approval to sue for damages when they were unprepared for the violation? Or do you contend that a rights violation doesn't occur if a citizen "lays a trap" and the cops willing walk into it? Why would that matter? Are government representatives somehow beyond the ability to be sued when they act in criminal manners (since it is obvious they will never be prosecuted for their criminal activity)?

Let me put it plainly, if I were to lose my "right" to carry a firearm, because of governmental criminality, I would ensure that everyone in the state of Tennessee loses that "right" as well.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
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Fairfax County, Virginia
Even if Leonard didn't even like guns, I would make the following argument:

The only problem with a person who makes a vocation of (legally) baiting the police into rights violations, so as to subsist or otherwise profit from the proceeds of lawsuits resulting therefrom, is the police themselves who enable such profit, by violating rights in the first place.

And that's really all there is to be said about that.
 
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Citizen

Founder's Club Member
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Nov 15, 2006
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18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Even if Leonard didn't even like guns, I would make the following argument:

The only problem with a person who makes a vocation of (legally) baiting the police into rights violations, so as to subsist or otherwise profit from the proceeds of lawsuits resulting therefrom, is the police themselves who enable such profit, by violating rights in the first place.

And that's really all there is to be said about that.

+1

You keep that up and I'm gonna have to pass the torch. :)
 

slowfiveoh

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
1,415
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Richmond, VA
Even if Leonard didn't even like guns, I would make the following argument:

The only problem with a person who makes a vocation of (legally) baiting the police into rights violations, so as to subsist or otherwise profit from the proceeds of lawsuits resulting therefrom, is the police themselves who enable such profit, by violating rights in the first place.

And that's really all there is to be said about that.

This is it. In an absolute nutshell.

You can wriggle a worm on the end of a hook all you like if LEO didn't have the stupidity to bite.
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
I too was sympathetic (a guy walking in the woods with a legal firearm) until I found out it was all planned out to sue and get a paycheck. How about when he said that if he couldn't get his "right" to carry back that he would do what he could so that noone could carry?

Sympathetic to 'him,' not necessarilly his avowed purposes.
 

HvyMtl

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
271
Location
Tennessee
(FYI: Rosa Parks was "picked" to be the lady refusing her place on the bus. It was planned. Wisely, as you had to have a very compassionate "victim" of the law to show its absurdity. - If you do not believe me, go visit the Civil Rights Museum in Birmingham, AL.)

Personally, I do not mind the "baiting" of the cops to do wrong. I hope he planned for the possible beat down.

Personally, I really do not care if he intended to sue.

The issue I have is this: Making a hero out of him, when clearly he does not deserve the tag. He has proven, time and again, here and other places, his pure selfishness, and lack of caring for the negative impacts of his actions.

Not planning to ensure the safety of the innocent general public, when intentionally confronting the police is fool hardy, at best. And could have led to a deadly result. And saying, "but that did not happen," misses the point it bloody well could have.

And stating, if he does not "deserve" a right, then no one else should have it, questions his morals.

I wonder if your viewpoints on Kwikrnu would change, if a negative response to Kwikrnu limits your rights, due to his actions... I bet they would. Some here would claim we have been quite lucky so far this has not occurred...

He is an extremist. Yes. Is he the best thing for gun rights? Probably not. Does he have the right to act in this manner? Yes. Is it the right thing to do? Obvious debate point.

Could any of his achievements been done without going to the extreme, as he has? Yes, some could. (Belle Meade could have been easily handled by going to a public meeting... something he decided not to do...)

Can his actions still lead to a negative impact on your rights? Possibly. Depends on how and what he pushes in court. If done wrong, he can set legal precedent which we all could be saddled with.

Again, I am glad he finally got legal representation, as the representation may limit this concern of bad precedent. I do wonder if the representation is now across the board, as he had few cases going on at the same time...

I DO hope Kwikrnu decides to better explain himself, than he has, so far, in multiple locations on the internet, by having a full on interview with Mr. Haas. As it seems, Mr. Haas may be the most neutral journalist he will find in Mid Tennessee on gun rights...
 
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slowfiveoh

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Richmond, VA
(FYI: Rosa Parks was "picked" to be the lady refusing her place on the bus. It was planned. Wisely, as you had to have a very compassionate "victim" of the law to show its absurdity. - If you do not believe me, go visit the Civil Rights Museum in Birmingham, AL.)

This is an oft quoted misnomer. Gray Peterson and I had a conversation about this, and actually, looking back into Rosa Parks own history, she was merely "affiliated" with the NAACP at the time (Secretary?), but not specifically chosen. There was another woman who may have footed the bill, as the NAACP WAS actively looking to push this issue, specifically in Montgomery. However, that woman was underage, pregnant, and not married.

The idea that Rosa Parks was "chosen", is not true. She merely knew about the situation, and elected to make herself the scapegoat, thinking that the NAACP, an organization her husband touted as "powerless and ineffective", may have her back.

Here is an excerpt from the library of congress:

"Although her arrest was not planned, Park's action was consistent with the NAACP's desire to challenge segregated public transport in the courts. A one-day bus boycott coinciding with Parks's December 5 court date resulted in an overwhelming African-American boycott of the bus system. Since black people constituted seventy percent of the transit system's riders, most busses carried few passengers that day."
Cite - http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/today/dec01.html

"Consistent with", is not the same as "planned".


Personally, I do not mind the "baiting" of the cops to do wrong. I hope he planned for the possible beat down.

Which are we to be more concerned about?

The right to act in a lawful manner, and walk amongst our countrymen freely...

OR

The possibility of being beaten, shot, and falsely detained by the all too common rogue law enforcement officer, and the security of the thin blue line?

Personally, I really do not care if he intended to sue.

Agreed.

It is incumbent upon Law Enforcement to conduct themselves within the scope of the law, and to act honorably in everything they do.

The issue I have is this: Making a hero out of him, when clearly he does not deserve the tag. He has proven, time and again, here and other places, his pure selfishness, and lack of caring for the negative impacts of his actions.

There is a serious misunderstanding here in regards to what people perceive as Leonards wanton disregard for equal rights.

Consider these facts:

#1. We are ALL to be equal, specifically with recognized preexisting, enumerated human rights specified in our sovereign law.

#2. For all of us to be equal, we must support even that which we may deem not to be necessary, but is in line with the term "freedom". Even if it is out of YOUR comfort zone.
In fact, especially so!
(This means those who conceal, should stop giving the OC'ers **** for an activity that is the whole equal of their chosen carry method, the only difference being a piece of fabric.)

#3. When we sacrifice a fellow countryman, on the basis of discomfort, instead of careful, lawfully applied scrutiny, he may become a bit frustrated with those who deem to howl with the wolves, or worse, feed him to them.


Not planning to ensure the safety of the innocent general public, when intentionally confronting the police is fool hardy, at best. And could have led to a deadly result. And saying, "but that did not happen," misses the point it bloody well could have.

Nobody should have to pre-plan the execution of civil rights, even if you are uncomfortable.

If a group of homosexuals wants to have a mini parade in Central Park, that is their right.

If a preacher wants to stand on a public corner preaching death to soldiers with his obviously morally bankrupt fellowship, that is their right. I would fight, and die, for thier right to do this, even as they spit in my face.

Failing to do so only dissolves the bonds that form our great nation, and the unrivaled equality it contains.

It is fairly erroneous to specify that Leonard did something "dangerous", and to refer to the possibility of injury to innocent bystanders on behalf of unlawful conduct by LEO/LEA as a consequence of his lawful actions.

And stating, if he does not "deserve" a right, then no one else should have it, questions his morals.

Kwik and I have been in correspondence every now and then.

Were you aware that the self professed "freedom loving, RTKBA supporting, firearms enthusiasts" who oppose Leonards actions, have written letters to law enforcement, specifying that "what Leonard did was insane, crazy, and they do not support his actions at all, to include the carry of a AK pistol.", and to furthermore, "use their commentary as the basis for all rationality of all gun owners everywhere"?

Were you aware that Leonard has received threats, up to and including death?

I wonder if he is tired of individuals who profess to be his brethren, kicking him in the gut, and feeding him to the wolves.

I wonder if your viewpoints on Kwikrnu would change, if a negative response to Kwikrnu limits your rights, due to his actions... I bet they would.

I think the far more relevant question is:

Why would we lay blame expressly on an individual acting in a legal manner, and substantiate the ideology that it is acceptable to support the egregious acts of law enforcement, in an unlawful manner mind you, towards a law abiding citizen.

Some here would claim we have been quite lucky so far this has not occurred...

While others would point out that he successfully got a Jim Crow law that could have easily been used as a legal loophole for harassing law abiding open carriers within Bell Meade, off the books.

Furthermore, he studied the law concerning it, and instead of yielding to a government structure that has failed us so many times, took action to ensure it would be changed.

Bell Meade now fully complies with state preemption.

Nobody has had the fortitude, and integrity and to thank Kwik for this yet.

He is an extremist. Yes.

Colorful adjectives get us nowhere.

Gun owners are "extremists" according to many naive citizens.
CC'ers are "extremists" according to "hunters", and those, "normal gun owners". (Hey there's no deer downtown!"
OC'ers are "extremists" to CC'ers, because we carry our firearms on the outside.
Kwik is an "extremist" to you and others, because he doesn't fit your definition of "sensible".

In reality, each and every categorical listing above, relates to free men, acting within the scope of liberty, and our constitutional rights.

Is he the best thing for gun rights? Probably not.

Well...he did get a law off the books. While we can dream up a thousand things we don't like about someone else activities, so long as they have not done anything illegal, who cares?

Just saying.

Does he have the right to act in this manner? Yes.

So based on this comment...

Is it the right thing to do? Obvious debate point.

...why is this deemed to be true?

Until we all can get on the same page, this sort of shifty support structure will only go so far.

Could any of his achievements been done without going to the extreme, as he has? Yes, some could. (Belle Meade could have been easily handled by going to a public meeting... something he decided not to do...)

You do realize the state has not a single reason to revoke his carry permit, but they did it anyways?

Do you really believe that the "good ol boy" system will cater to his request to remove the law?

There have been legal fights the better course of 5 years long to get them off the books using the method you described.

Can his actions still lead to a negative impact on your rights? Possibly. Depends on how and what he pushes in court. If done wrong, he can set legal precedent which we all could be saddled with.

This argument has always irritated me. It's as if only those who have Alan Gura as immediate counsel, may pursue their individual rights.

Again, I am glad he finally got legal representation, as the representation may limit this concern of bad precedent. I do wonder if the representation is now across the board, as he had few cases going on at the same time...

I DO hope Kwikrnu decides to better explain himself, than he has, so far, in multiple locations on the internet, by having a full on interview with Mr. Haas. As it seems, Mr. Haas may be the most neutral journalist he will find in Mid Tennessee on gun rights...

I am likewise glad he got representation, but frankly, the guy is patient enough, and studious enough, to pursue matters on his own at the lower levels for sure.

I think he doesn't want to talk to people who have been injurious to him for no other purpose than defending their insecurities.
 

HvyMtl

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
271
Location
Tennessee
Yes, well, "volunteered." AS the previous cases, including the lady pregnant out of wedlock, were not "victims" enough to show the absurdity of the law.

"If a group of homosexuals wants to have a mini parade in Central Park, that is their right."
The darn well better have a permit to parade, or they are going to be arrested, and their parade broken up. Yes, you do have to pre-plan the use of civil rights...

"Were you aware that the self professed "freedom loving, RTKBA supporting, firearms enthusiasts" who oppose Leonards actions, have written letters to law enforcement, specifying that "what Leonard did was insane, crazy, and they do not support his actions at all, to include the carry of a AK pistol.", and to furthermore, "use their commentary as the basis for all rationality of all gun owners everywhere"?"

They have the right, as you state, to say what they want about Kwik, including the use of so called correspondence. You cannot have it both ways, even if you do not like their actions. Even if they spit in Kwik's face... though that is a crime...
As for them, so what? I am not one of them, and cannot respond to you about their actions.

As for the death threats, he has legal recourse on those, and should use his rights to remove the threats...

We are all equal, and not caring of others rights, and acting selfish about said rights, smacks of a person who does not believe we are.

As for crowing about the removal of a "Jim Crow" law that was an old, unenforced, and forgotten on the law books, (like several old, unenforced laws, such as, it is illegal in TN to use a lasso to catch a fish) well, big deal. It was easy to remove the issue by merely bringing it to the attention of the city.
Instead, he acted in a manner to show the absurdity, and placed the general public in danger, as you have pointed out, time and again, by the law enforcement officer, unclear on how a black powder pistol can be disarmed, barrel swept the Belle Meade Country Club. Had that firearm gone off, and injured someone, Kwikrnu would have been liable. Yet again, a fail in planning to protect the general public.

Again, I stand by my statement, the lack of preparedness and planning to prevent injury to the general public, is a failure on his part.

"I wonder if your viewpoints on Kwikrnu would change, if a negative response to Kwikrnu limits your rights, due to his actions... I bet they would." - Was pointed towards his (hopefully former) propensity to sue without looking at the big picture, and his acting without the view of the big picture (hey, if I do this, will there be a push against the 2nd A rights slowly coming back?)
And there will be a lot of people going against Kwikrnu, if this does happen.
Again, he has the right to sue, and I am fine with it. His getting an attorney does smack of the realization of his lack of winning so far, by doing it by himself.

So, lets see what happens with Kwikrnu's lawsuits, and see where else he pops up.
 
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marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
...law enforcement officer, unclear on how a black powder pistol can be disarmed, barrel swept the Belle Meade Country Club. Had that firearm gone off, and injured someone, Kwikrnu would have been liable. Yet again, a fail in planning to protect the general public.

lol, so this is Leonard's fault? Not, you know, the police's fault?
 

slowfiveoh

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
1,415
Location
Richmond, VA
Yes, well, "volunteered." AS the previous cases, including the lady pregnant out of wedlock, were not "victims" enough to show the absurdity of the law.

Her "volunteering" was not something that was preplanned.

After the event transpired, Martin Luther King Jr. sat down with his new fellowship, and discussed what "fell into their lap".

So what it all really comes down to, is that she really WAS just plain old tired of caving in.

Was she sure the NAACP would have her back? No, I don't think, per reading historical interviews with her, that she initially moved with that intent.

The darn well better have a permit to parade, or they are going to be arrested, and their parade broken up. Yes, you do have to pre-plan the use of civil rights...

Mini-Parade bud, mini-parade.

The only purpose to obtaining a permit for a parade, would be if the parade was large enough to affect the normal flow of traffic or day to day activities.

It also helps define the difference between "riot mob", and "paraders".

They have the right, as you state, to say what they want about Kwik, including the use of so called correspondence. You cannot have it both ways, even if you do not like their actions.

I clearly stated that I would defend, to the death if necessary, the right to free speech etc.

My comment was in no way, shape, or form, meant to detract from that right. It is merely to limelight the character of the individuals who purport to support the RTKBA, yet sucker punch fellow exercisers of said rights at the earliest, and most convenient opportunity. Specifically, when said exercising of rights, crosses over their "comfort threshold".

Even if they spit in Kwik's face... though that is a crime...

The term was used proverbially. It was meant to demonstrate the foul nature of some of those who have posted, or replied, in detraction of kwik.

As for them, so what? I am not one of them, and cannot respond to you about their actions.

I did not specify that you were. I merely pointed out the fallacy in the argument. Kwik has been lambasted from day one by supposed 2A supporters, for engaging in 2A activities.

As for the death threats, he has legal recourse on those, and should use his rights to remove the threats...

Indeed he does.

We are all equal, and not caring of others rights, and acting selfish about said rights, smacks of a person who does not believe we are.

I agree completely.

So how about supporting kwiks rights?
How about not slandering and libeling him?
How about not claiming to support 2A, then absolve all law enforcement of wrong doing when violating his rights?

It is hypocritical to the extreme, to sit here and say we should consider "others rights", then **** on them at the earliest available opportunity, merely because one believes everyone should be carrying sub compacts in business suits.

As for crowing about the removal of a "Jim Crow" law that was an old, unenforced, and forgotten on the law books, (like several old, unenforced laws, such as, it is illegal in TN to use a lasso to catch a fish) well, big deal. It was easy to remove the issue by merely bringing it to the attention of the city.

Again, catering to the system should not be necessary, and no absolution can be found for violating his rights, while he fully complied with city ordnance.

I dare say nobody here would castrate a cop for enforcing the no lassoing of a fish law, while on the same token, they would, and have, readily assaulted a citizen who fully complied with a law.

Instead, he acted in a manner to show the absurdity, and placed the general public in danger, as you have pointed out, time and again, by the law enforcement officer, unclear on how a black powder pistol can be disarmed, barrel swept the Belle Meade Country Club.

He acted in a manner consistent with the letter of the law. Period.

He was then stopped, for acting in a wholly lawful manner.


The ignorance of the officer to actually fiddle with an instrument he was not qualified to handle, was done so of his own volition.

It is fabricated stupidity, and wanton ignorance, to claim that a law enforcement officer, who removed the firearm from Leonard, then proceeded to muzzle sweep the Bell Meade country club, is somehow absolved because Leonard followed the law.

I do not know what firearms courses you have taken, nor what application of common sense one is attempting to imply here, but when I take over a firearm from someone else. It becomes my responsibility to handle that firearm with care.

I am not qualified to disarm anti-personnel mines. Therefore, why the F would I pick one up, and start playing with it?

Common sense is not too common.

Had that firearm gone off, and injured someone, Kwikrnu would have been liable. Yet again, a fail in planning to protect the general public.

Incorrect.

Leonard made no promise, nor oath, to protect the public.

The law enforcement officer did. He then proceeded to take an unfamiliar firearm from a law abiding citizen, and upon taking said firearm, proceeded to operate the action, and muzzle swept an occupied area.

One of these individuals is certainly at fault.

My opinion is the one who swore an oath to protect, and not the one who didnt, and was abiding by the letter of the law.

Again, I stand by my statement, the lack of preparedness and planning to prevent injury to the general public, is a failure on his part.

It is incumbent upon LEO to enforce the law, and not emotive opinion. What we have is a bucket of the latter, causing them to behave in such a manner consistent with possible "injury to the general public". None of which were started by Leonard.

Was pointed towards his (hopefully former) propensity to sue without looking at the big picture, and his acting without the view of the big picture (hey, if I do this, will there be a push against the 2nd A rights slowly coming back?)

The wise ones have said, "There is nothing wrong with what he did", even if they surreptitiously appended "fundamentally" to the end of every comment.

The reason is, they knew that what he did was completely right, but as any organization goes, they are worried about protecting their image. The worry stems from the ability to please their political partners, and the ability to draw in the side that is lead by their emotions in all they do (the liberal democrats, to be blunt).


And there will be a lot of people going against Kwikrnu, if this does happen.
Again, he has the right to sue, and I am fine with it. His getting an attorney does smack of the realization of his lack of winning so far, by doing it by himself.

So, lets see what happens with Kwikrnu's lawsuits, and see where else he pops up.

We shall see for sure, one way or the other.
 

tcmech

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I have to disagree with with Kwik on some points. I do not believe that an AK47 really qualifies as a handgun, irregardless of the legalities of it. I do believe that if a person wishes to carry a rifle or shotgun instead of a handgun that there is no reason they should not be able to do so, without a permit.

I feel that the Belle Meade incident was a prime bit of grand standing. He broke no laws and I believe that he did nothing unsafe. I see no reason that we cannot safely handle weapons but I do believe that they are best left holstered till needed. I am sure that is the point that he was trying to convey, but I am also positive that there were many less controversial methods to make that point.

In short, I believe that he is being treated unfairly by not only the state but many on this board as well.
 

HvyMtl

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Aug 11, 2010
Messages
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Location
Tennessee
Interesting, how I am now, somehow, not pushing for my Constitutional rights, because I find Kwikrnu's actions not necessary, and ill planned for safety. That may be your opinion Slow, and as an opinion I know I cannot change, I won't even bother. I do know the reality, better than you, of how I have been acting on my rights... However, in some cases, if someone stated the same about you, Slow, your temper would flare. (I do commend you on holding it of late, as this is the internet, after all, and in real life, of little importance.)

Yes, he would be morally, and perhaps, civilly responsible for the action, of placing others in harms way. That is a correct view. His negligence would be hard to disprove.

But, again, you do not believe that, and I know arguing the point with you, Slow, is like beating one's head against a stone wall. Waste of effort and time, as you are set in your opinion, as hard as I am set in mine.

"Again, catering to the system should not be necessary..." No. Wrong. Bad move. Which system you prefer, the one based on law and based on the Constitution, or something else? "Catering" to the system here, would have been smarter. Why? Simple, give the City the chance to remove the old, unenforced, law. Let the legal process work. Then react to focus on the issue, if the process failed. Had he tried the system first, and THEN acted, his actions would have impacted much harder, possibly exposing a City Government unresponsive and out of touch with its constituents, or even shining a light on possible corruption. However, Kwikrnu chose to go the sensationalist way, instead of bothering to go with the legal right to petition the City, to remove the law. Kwik's actions a waste of time? IMHO, probably, but we will not know, as he chose not to go the lawful, and easily attainable, route of asking the City to remove the old, unenforced, and long disused law. Instead, he grandstanded. And now his allegations of a corrupt, and racist, City Government falls on deaf ears, as the focus is on him and his actions...instead of the Government's actions. And now there are repercussions for Kwik. (Yes, some of which I wonder about, and may not approve of.) I do wonder, had he gone through the petition route, whether or not the spot light would have blocked Belle Meade PD from asking for the permit revocation...

Again, we will see what happens with Kwikrnu, though, I do not hold my breath. I think he will be bitterly disappointed.
 
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RussP

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Sep 2, 2006
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393
Location
Central Virginia
Interesting, how I am now, somehow, not pushing for my Constitutional rights, because I find Kwikrnu's actions not necessary, and ill planned for safety. That may be your opinion Slow, and as an opinion I know I cannot change, I won't even bother. I do know the reality, better than you, of how I have been acting on my rights... However, in some cases, if someone stated the same about you, Slow, your temper would flare. (I do commend you on holding it of late, as this is the internet, after all, and in real life, of little importance.)

Yes, he would be morally, and perhaps, civilly responsible for the action, of placing others in harms way. That is a correct view. His negligence would be hard to disprove.

But, again, you do not believe that, and I know arguing the point with you, Slow, is like beating one's head against a stone wall. Waste of effort and time, as you are set in your opinion, as hard as I am set in mine.

"Again, catering to the system should not be necessary..." No. Wrong. Bad move. Which system you prefer, the one based on law and based on the Constitution, or something else? "Catering" to the system here, would have been smarter. Why? Simple, give the City the chance to remove the old, unenforced, law. Let the legal process work. Then react to focus on the issue, if the process failed. Had he tried the system first, and THEN acted, his actions would have impacted much harder, possibly exposing a City Government unresponsive and out of touch with its constituents, or even shining a light on possible corruption. However, Kwikrnu chose to go the sensationalist way, instead of bothering to go with the legal right to petition the City, to remove the law. Kwik's actions a waste of time? IMHO, probably, but we will not know, as he chose not to go the lawful, and easily attainable, route of asking the City to remove the old, unenforced, and long in disused law. Instead, he grandstanded. And now his allegations of a corrupt, and racist, City Government falls on deaf ears, as the focus is on him and his actions...instead of the Government's actions. And now there are repercussions for Kwik. (Yes, some of which I wonder about, and may not approve of.) I do wonder, had he gone through the petition route, whether or not the spot light would have blocked Belle Meade PD from asking for the permit revocation...

Again, we will see what happens with Kwikrnu, though, I do not hold my breath. I think he will be bitterly disappointed.
Well said...
 

slowfiveoh

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Sep 15, 2009
Messages
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Location
Richmond, VA
Interesting, how I am now, somehow, not pushing for my Constitutional rights, because I find Kwikrnu's actions not necessary, and ill planned for safety. That may be your opinion Slow, and as an opinion I know I cannot change, I won't even bother.

Please point out the specific quote where I stated you were not pushing for your "Constitutional Rights".

I do find the ideology in conflict with the base concept, but I did not iterate as such directly.


I do know the reality, better than you, of how I have been acting on my rights... However, in some cases, if someone stated the same about you, Slow, your temper would flare. (I do commend you on holding it of late, as this is the internet, after all, and in real life, of little importance.)

You are shifting focus, and have failed to answer the responses both Marshaul and I have posted.

Yes, he would be morally, and perhaps, civilly responsible for the action, of placing others in harms way. That is a correct view. His negligence would be hard to disprove.

No, he would not.

There was no citation, and other than the simple stop, verbal harassment, lies, and general tomfoolery on behalf of the officers, he was let go. In other words, nothing but a routine "HCP check" at absolute best. Please observe the end of the video, wherein he walks away after the simple HCP check.

But, again, you do not believe that, and I know arguing the point with you, Slow, is like beating one's head against a stone wall. Waste of effort and time, as you are set in your opinion, as hard as I am set in mine.

The points that have been made, have been repeatedly dodged, over, and over again.

You fail to yield to the simple fact, that the officer took the firearm, and it is incumbent upon the officer to act in a safe manner whilst in the possession of the firearm.

If the dumbass shoots himself in the face with it, you would undoubtedly talk about how stupid he was to point it at his face.

Somehow it's "different" when he points it at other people.

What level of rocket science research must be conducted to understand that the business end of a firearm is not appropriate to point at other people?

I don't think it's that hard to concede this point.

"Again, catering to the system should not be necessary..." No. Wrong. Bad move. Which system you prefer, the one based on law and based on the Constitution, or something else?

Oh based on the Constitution that he was well within the descriptive liberty of, whilst exercising his rights?

Gee, they can't both be right, now can they?

The "System that is based on law and the Constitution" is an enormous misrepresentation of our current judicial system.

The system you infer as being "based on the Constitution" certainly rarely looks its way historically, and specifically with the 2nd Amendment.

Wouldn't it be nice if acting within a Constitutionally recognized right, actually meant the judicial system based on said Constitution, couldn't violate your freedom within said recognized right?

That would be pretty cool, wouldn't it?


"Catering" to the system here, would have been smarter. Why? Simple, give the City the chance to remove the old, unenforced, law.

Give me your perceived timetable on this being rectified. Be realistic.

I think you will see where it would have gone.


Let the legal process work. Then react to focus on the issue, if the process failed. Had he tried the system first, and THEN acted, his actions would have impacted much harder, possibly exposing a City Government unresponsive and out of touch with its constituents, or even shining a light on possible corruption.

OR conveniently let the issue sit with the board until such time a they see fit to address it, or drum up 1000 reasons not to.

However, Kwikrnu chose to go the sensationalist way, instead of bothering to go with the legal right to petition the City, to remove the law. Kwik's actions a waste of time? IMHO, probably, but we will not know, as he chose not to go the lawful, and easily attainable, route of asking the City to remove the old, unenforced, and long in disused law. Instead, he grandstanded. And now his allegations of a corrupt, and racist, City Government falls on deaf ears, as the focus is on him and his actions... And now there are repercussions for Kwik. (Yes, some of which I wonder about, and may not approve of.)

So long as the method taken is in line with local law, is safe, and falls in with the definition of an exercised constitutional freedom, who CARES what route he takes!

Again, we will see what happens with Kwikrnu, though, I do not hold my breath. I think he will be bitterly disappointed.

Time will tell.

Well said...

Oh hey look! It's the guy who professes to support open carry, denigrates it on GlockTalk, and only posts here when he has something detrimental to say about kwikrnu.

HI!
 
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daniel boone

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Feb 13, 2011
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gray tn
Why is it most gun owners are so opposed to those who DO "go to the edge?" Is it because those brave souls show up everyone else for the cowards they truly are? Without those willing to go there, the rest would be nothing more than glorified slaves.
As it is, I cannot OC right here in Washington county without a permission slip.
 
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SIGguy229

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
349
Location
Stafford, VA, , Afghanistan
Why is it most gun owners are so opposed to those who DO "go to the edge?" Is it because those brave souls show up everyone else for the cowards they truly are? Without those willing to go there, the rest would be nothing more than glorified slaves.
As it is, I cannot OC right here in Washington county without a permission slip.

Because we as gun owners are scrutinized every time we are in public; the end state cannot justify the means. Suppose Kwik got what he wanted...our critics would say he did it by using a gun to get what he wanted....alluding that is how criminals do business. To borrow a quote, we have to do things better and cleaner than our opponents.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Why is it most gun owners are so opposed to those who DO "go to the edge?" Is it because those brave souls show up everyone else for the cowards they truly are? Without those willing to go there, the rest would be nothing more than glorified slaves.
As it is, I cannot OC right here in Washington county without a permission slip.

God forbid we do ANYthing which may ruffle the feathers of the Great Unwashed Masses.

I do NOT accept the "everyone else" to be "cowards" is either truthful or reasonable, nor even appropriate rhetoric for this site.

The goal of OCDO is to have the normal, everyday holstered OC accepted as we go about our everyday lives. We will not accomplish that while unnecessarily alienating people. We have frequently "ruffled feathers", but find that other effective means are often preferable.
 
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