Carry at home? You should.

tcmech said:

I know how most people feel about their dogs but you go after someone who is running around terrorizing your neighborhood with a gun in your hand you risk ending up like this guy.

http://www.10news.com/news/3948807/detail.html

No matter how justified he may have been, he still spent 9 years in prison.

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Agreed, but in that case out of all the documented reports of that dirt bag nearly killing too many people. The so called justice system failed that man, and i feel zero pity for that dirt bag."Neighbors documented more than 150 incidents affecting 42 victims."John Harper had driven at me in his car. He used his car to assault my son. He threw rocks at my daughter," neighbor Barbara Bunderson said." Yet the police did nothing, how that man was found guilty of protecting his family when the so called justice system did nothing is just plain wrong. If this happened to my family and I got the same response for help from law enforcement I cant say I wouldn't do the same. What that man did is justice. Expecting justice from our laws or the laws of any nation on earth is a fool's errand. "It isn’t going to happen." The only justice that happens is when laws are not involved. You can obtain justice on a small village level, maybe, but nowhere else in the world is it likely. Under most systems of laws it is not even an objective.

Locale: Open Range (uber-rural) within about 30 miles from the Mexican border. I carry 'something' at all times at home as much as is practical or have something handy-by 24/7. I open carry off-site at all other times.

Freedom First said:

I was having a discussion with a CCer on another forum about home carry and he thought it was nuts. Especially with kids in the house. It never occurred to him that a bad guy might visit him at home...

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Did he say how the perp would "shoot you first since you're the one with a gun."? Does he CC only when no kids are around??

"I understand you affection towards your dog. As much as you may love your dog it is not justifiable/excusable to kill someone because they shot your dog."

Not to re-ignite another dispute,but.. this one call's for a comment or two.

No,you dont even begin to understand unless/until it happens to you. For some of you out there,a dog is just a dog or whatever. An attitude I've encountered with folks in enfuriating numbers since my incident.
My dog, as is the case for many dog owners, was as much a member of my family as any kid I might have. As far as I'm concerned, the dog was pretty much my kid,and her murder is just as serious a matter to me as if they had come down and killed a kid of mine. If that sounds "nuts" to you, then do your kids and/or pets a favor, and put them up for adoption, they do not deserve you,nor the harm you will likely bring upon them someday.

Futher, an attack on my home and upon anyone residing at or visiting my home, is still an attack on my home. Any further such attacks will indeed be met with lethal force ,if needed. I no longer can, nor will I, assume that any such attempt would be limited to "just" my dogs.

Local LE have been made 100% aware of this fact -and my intentions,local law supports this fact, the prime suspect in my case has most certainly been made fully aware of this fact-both by myself and local LE. There's been no room made for any doubts on this matter, I can assure you.

Further, the particulars of this case bring in some points not often considered or discussed- that yes, while the dog was shot ON my property, the shooter was not himself On the property. He fired a shotgun from approx: 30-40 meters from off-property to on property.
Does this make the situation any less of an attack? There can very well be a situation in which one may have to take action to defend themselves from an armed, lethal threat at a greater than usual distance, or off-property. One cannot always rely on the law,so to speak, to wait for the target to come on-property or whatever..

Factor in also, that in the same area, LEO response times to shots-fired calls have averaged 45-50 minutes, at least. There are no "time-outs" in combat. There is no "chivalry" or "sporting behavior" when one is taking incomming. And 9 times out of 10, when one comes under attack, there is little to no oppty to retreat to safety or cover,and that attack rarely/if ever, will take place when/where YOU choose to have it happen. You have to deal with/return fire from wherever you happen to be, and return it TO wherever the target happens to be.

j4l said:

No,you dont even begin to understand unless/until it happens to you.

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It wouldn't matter if your dog was your entire extended family's best friend for life, had picked the winning $200 Million Powerball lottery numbers for you, and saved all the kids from drowning. If you shoot another human being only because they shot your dog, it remains murder in the eyes of the law.

On the other hand, if someone shoots my dog and keeps their firearm out, they've demonstrated harmful intent and remain a clear and present danger. Being in immediate fear of life or life, I'd be fully justified under Colorado State Law to defend myself against this immediate threat.

The circumstances between murder and justified self-defence occasionally boil down to a mere nuance. As has been previously suggested, know your local, county, and state regs cold.

We just had an officer involved shooting here in Colorado Springs, after which the news covered the ongoing training undertaken by local LEOs, as well as the decision-making process wherein a shooting might be justified. From what I understand, the perp was firing at other houses, began firing at officers when they showed, and refused to stop when challenged. I don't think things get much clearer than that.

Returning fire after some jerk shot my dog? By comparison, that's about as muddy as it can get.

The point made was stay out of jail! If you think it's right to avenge the death of your best furry friend and are prepared to pull a decade or three in prison, I'm with skidmark in that I don't know what to think of you decision-making skills or thought processes except that they sound foreign to my law-abiding tendancies.

If that were my intent-after the fact- he'd be long-since deceased.
His shooting my dog was undertaken during the course of approaching the home-we understand with the intent of break-in/home-invasion -as he is currently suspected of to at least 6 other homes in the area. He opened fire from off-property/before arriving at property,because the dog spotted him down-range and began barking to alert me.
For whatever reason,most likely the reaction to the shot fired, he/they then turned and fled back to their home.

Had I not stepped back inside at the moment that I did, I would have been standing there with the dog, and likely shot along with it as well. At the least,I would have taken some hits from the pellet pattern from the shotgun blast. So, above and beyond "just" the dog,there was/is the potential of myself and/or family to bit hit in such an attack.

And that's exactly what it is, an attack. Be it from 5 feet or 50 feet or 500 feet.
Now, thus warned to such a threat, I take measures to counter it, should it arise again.
The suspects in this matter are still free, still armed to the teeth,and still residing only 4 doors down the road from me.
The threat, as far as Im concerned still exists- until such time as it moves elsewhere,is in custody/jail, or deceased.

Im not talking about indescriminate return fires here, Im talking about if such an attack occurs again,I can ,and will ,return fire on those shooting at me, at my pets/family/home/visitors or neighbors.

I've thought long and hard about this subject. Yes this is a totally different situation from what's being discussed here but...I love my pets and have thought that I would use deadly force if one of them was under attack or killed by a neighbor. Then the unthinkable happened. A neighbor killed my cat thinking it was a stray. When I posted the missing cat sign at the subdivision entrance the wife called me asking a lot of questions about the cat. Bottom line is that they killed it thinking it was a stray. They didn't catch it and take it to animal control like I always do, they simply killed it. She didn't actually come out and admit it, but I could easily surmise that my cat was gone forever from their actions. I was pretty upset, but I tempered my anger and now I just hate my neighbor...which is a sin in and of itself I guess.

...Oh, as to the OP, I always carry a gun in my house unless I'm in bed, then it is in the drawer beside the bed & my Rem 870 is in the corner loaded with 00 buckshot and ready to blast any SOB that comes through the door or window (if my wife can wake me up that is).

ET. said:

I've thought long and hard about this subject. Yes this is a totally different situation from what's being discussed here but...I love my pets and have thought that I would use deadly force if one of them was under attack or killed by a neighbor. Then the unthinkable happened. A neighbor killed my cat thinking it was a stray. When I posted the missing cat sign at the subdivision entrance the wife called me asking a lot of questions about the cat. Bottom line is that they killed it thinking it was a stray. They didn't catch it and take it to animal control like I always do, they simply killed it. She didn't actually come out and admit it, but I could easily surmise that my cat was gone forever from their actions. I was pretty upset, but I tempered my anger and now I just hate my neighbor...which is a sin in and of itself I guess.



...Oh, as to the OP, I always carry a gun in my house unless I'm in bed, then it is in the drawer beside the bed & my Rem 870 is in the corner loaded with 00 buckshot and ready to blast any SOB that comes through the door or window (if my wife can wake me up that is).

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Not diminishing your situation, but there's a significant difference here.
My dog wasnt killed by accident, my dog wasnt hit by a car, my dog wasnt terminated for attacking anyone or being a stray.
It was killed to eliminate it en route to an attack on my home, so that it would'nt alert me to said attack.
Motives, intentions,reasons for it's killing were entirely different, and entirely of malice.

j4l said:

Not diminishing your situation, but there's a significant difference here.
My dog wasnt killed by accident, my dog wasnt hit by a car, my dog wasnt terminated for attacking anyone or being a stray.
It was killed to eliminate it en route to an attack on my home, so that it would'nt alert me to said attack.
Motives, intentions,reasons for it's killing were entirely different, and entirely of malice.

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I understood that, which is why I prefaced my comments with "Yes this is a totally different situation from what's being discussed here but..." I know that a dog or cat is a part of the family & it feels like a family member has been shot. It makes it worse when it has been done knowingly and to gain access to your home.

I was commenting on the fact that even though someone kills my/your animal purposely we don't have the lawful right to go hunting for that individual to exact revenge. We are supposed to let the authorities handle it. Now if you catch them breaking into your home, threatening you on your property or some other act that would indicate self defense then by all means have at them, but if anyone here is proporting that they are merely going after the alleged perp because "they know they shot my dog" then the authorities are going to have a major problem with those actions. We can't hunt down suspected murders and take them out either. If it isn't a self defense situation we have to let the judicial system handle it. Vigilantes are dealt with the same way as the criminals that the vigilante disposes of. We are allowed to defend ourselves & others in imminent danger and our property. We can't legally be "The Enforcer".

Like it has already been stated here, when I first started carrying, (to gain a comfort level), I carried all the time, in the house, around the yard, 24 / 7. When I went to bed my pistol was on the night stand within easy reach. It got to a point where I actually felt uncomfortable withouot my firearm on my hip. It is still like that.. I am carrying when ever and where ever it is legal (Wisconsin). Even when it is not legal to carry, the pistol is unloaded and cased per WI law, but I still have my gun belt W/ empty holster on ready to load and carry where it is legal....

Outdoorsman1

i carry at home 24-7. my gun sleeps in holster under my pillow, goes on my belt when i wake up, even goes into a 1 gallon ziplock bag and INTO the actual shower with me, * now i have a use for that basket thingey my gf got*. back onto my belt after and everywhere i go in between. to get the mail, to the car, from the car, take out trash. i live in a crappy town with alot of "gangsters' so i dont take any chances. :-D

carry for myself said:

even goes into a 1 gallon ziplock bag and INTO the actual shower with me, * now i have a use for that basket thingey my gf got*.

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Thank you for making me feel completely rational by sometimes having it under my pillow. :lol:

marionmedic said:

I don't "carry" at home. Kinda hard when I wear t-shirt and boxers 99.999% of the time i am in house.

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I wear a thin t-shirt and cotton PJs in the house. My CrossbreedSupertuck IWB wears nicely inside the PJs with the drawstring tied tight. No belt needed.

Before I got a dog, answering the door while OCing did not deter the Mormons. They just used the 2A as an ice breaker.

I carry most the time. Seldom carry inside the house, I've got weapons within arms reach all over the house. I have yet to carry out in my yard much, I have a pretty good size spread, but I've been considering it more often. There's been a rash of rural home robberies recently. Reckon it'll take someone like me sending one of these idiots to his maker to cut it back down. It's been more and more that I think about when I walk out the door unarmed of saying "baaaahhh" That treatise about "On sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs" sticks in my head. I had one of my dogs shot, but not killed, he developed what I'm certain was lead poisoning, probably No. 8 shot showed up on the x-rays. He was my English pointer. Pissed me off highly. But one of the farmers around here probably thought he was molesting his cattle. In reference to the attack on the other fellas dog and such, I'm not going to respond on how I'd react. But if the fella had shot in my general direction let's just say he'd have a firefight on his hands. And having served 25 years US Army, I doubt he'd hold up to incoming fire as well as I know I can. Would it be a case of me shooting him for killing my dog? That's not how I'd articulate it. I was reacting to incoming fire. I was scared for my family's welfare. Just me sayin' it.

KansasMustang said:

I carry most the time. Seldom carry inside the house, I've got weapons within arms reach all over the house. I have yet to carry out in my yard much, I have a pretty good size spread, but I've been considering it more often. There's been a rash of rural home robberies recently. Reckon it'll take someone like me sending one of these idiots to his maker to cut it back down. It's been more and more that I think about when I walk out the door unarmed of saying "baaaahhh" That treatise about "On sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs" sticks in my head. I had one of my dogs shot, but not killed, he developed what I'm certain was lead poisoning, probably No. 8 shot showed up on the x-rays. He was my English pointer. Pissed me off highly. But one of the farmers around here probably thought he was molesting his cattle. In reference to the attack on the other fellas dog and such, I'm not going to respond on how I'd react. But if the fella had shot in my general direction let's just say he'd have a firefight on his hands. And having served 25 years US Army, I doubt he'd hold up to incoming fire as well as I know I can. Would it be a case of me shooting him for killing my dog? That's not how I'd articulate it. I was reacting to incoming fire. I was scared for my family's welfare. Just me sayin' it.

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And well said.
Sorry,as you can well imagine about the dog.
Had I been armed at the time, there would indeed have been a firefight.
Hence-my advice-biased though it certainly is now- is start packing around the home.
Im certainly more than proof that even in remote/rural/semi-rural areas such attacks can happen. And from the least expected folks.

Prior to the night of my incident, I had heard talk of such robberies going on.But, I had more or less written em off as very unlikely in our area. It's too quiet, that stuff doesnt happen around here,etc.. Over the course of the preceding 4 or 5 nights, my dogs would begin barking and growling at something outside at odd times-midnite,etc. At the time, I had written even those warnings off to racoon or possum they wanted to go after.
I ignored both types of warnings, and my instincts, in favor of convincing myself that I no longer live in he cities, and out here it's safe.

Pack. 24/7 inside/outside always.

We are striving to make carrying a HG be like a tool you use all the time. Just as a chef always has his knife, a painter his brush, a vinyl siding guy his tin snips on their belts.

I want it to be as transparent as possible - not complicated, systems worked out so there will be a carry option, putting it on like you wear your wallet, or your glasses. A HG that's too large or too heavy where you haven't solved the holster question will just eventually stop being carried at times. This is not good. Find a HG you will carry all the time and learn to deploy and shoot it well. A HG in a drawer across the room might as well be locked in a safe if you have an emergency. I think it's important to be able to carry at home and use that time to learn how to do it well, work with snap caps, get your options and deployment down.

$.02

"A HG in a drawer across the room might as well be locked in a safe if you have an emergency. I think it's important to be able to carry at home and use that time to learn how to do it well, work with snap caps, get your options and deployment down."

100% correct. MY .02

Could you perhaps help me convince the wife of this? LOL. She' constantly saying "must you wear that everywhere?"
I've used exactly that argument- that if X happens at time Y, and my heater is the closet, or a drawer in the opposite end of the house, what good is it? I OC my full-size .45 w/ 25 rounds @ all times. When asleep, it's clipped to the side-rail of my bed,and the 870 is slung over the headboard. Both within immediate reach,should the alarms begin to sound. And yes,my perimeter is now fully wired up and alarmed.

The snap-caps are also an excellent training device.Have been working with them daily.
One issue with them though-since they do not simulate cycling the action of a semi, it makes simulating a double-tap or a mozambique drill less than realistic.I can do so DA,but SA no.
My previous training had always been to do a double-tap,at the least,so...

I carry around the house and outside doing yard work all the time. My mother in laws neighborhood has had a rash of break ins. When I go to visit I open carry and make sure Im seen. I was there last week and a guy walked up to ask for money, he saw Sally on my hip and did an about face and hauled ass.

I had forgotten this thread was here, so when something happened last week I started one in my state...

Basically, I had one door open w/ the storm door locked, heard the door rattling, went to check it out, & a guy with very big eyes went down the driveway at a high rate of speed.
Given the 3 steps to get into the house & up to where I was standing, the holster was about at his eye level. Quite effective.

Could have been an innocent mistake, wrong address, wrong street, but I don't think so.
If I get to a friend's house & expect to be able to walk in & can't, I knock or ring the bell or call out.