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Thread: Slightly OT But a very good read

  1. #1
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    Slightly OT But a very good read

    As you reade this, think seriously about content, then read it again and put your self in the position of an OC member, then read it again seriously for content.


    As the Supreme Court hears arguments for and against the Chicago, IL, Gun Ban, I offer you another stellar example of a letter (written by a Marine), that places the proper perspective on what a gun means to a civilized society.

    Interesting take and one you don't hear much... Read this eloquent and profound letter and pay close attention to the last paragraph of the letter.....


    "The Gun Is Civilization"
    By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

    In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

    When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

    The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

    There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat - it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

    People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

    Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

    People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

    The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... And that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

    By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)

  2. #2
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    anybody that has not seen and read that assay posted over and over again
    on these forums, must be a noob!
    the authership is also in dispute!

    Entry tags:essay, guns
    Why The Gun is Civilized
    By Marko Kloos, German Federal Defence Force, Retired.
    Originally Published here:
    http://munchkinwrangler.blogspot.com...ilization.html
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    anybody that has not seen and read that assay posted over and over again
    on these forums, must be a noob!
    the authership is also in dispute!

    Entry tags:essay, guns
    Why The Gun is Civilized
    By Marko Kloos, German Federal Defence Force, Retired.
    Originally Published here:
    http://munchkinwrangler.blogspot.com...ilization.html
    Sorry Bob,
    I must be a new boob as I have never seen that here or elsewhere. A good read anyway.

  4. #4
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    It is a good read regardless if some of us have done so there are new members daily and members who have not.

    http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.co...-civilization/
    Last edited by BigDave; 02-02-2011 at 11:31 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  5. #5
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Yep, its come and gone a few times over the years.

    I believe the first time I read it was from a link on one of Oleg Volk's sites.

    Like others have said, still a good read.

    Here is another good one...
    http://www.a-human-right.com/fable.shtml
    Last edited by FMCDH; 02-03-2011 at 12:13 AM. Reason: edited to add link

  6. #6
    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    An interesting read, but I don't agree with everything the author has said. First off, there is another option to getting someone to do what you want them to do. ASK! Yes, you can ask, which by the way is probably the most used method of getting someone to do what you want them to do for you. I am surprised the author missed it. Maybe it says more about his approach to others than anything. Notwithstanding, every interaction that seeks a specific response does not have to viewed as requiring force or reason.

    There are other things stated that I disagree with, but I will not take any more of your time.
    Last edited by CenTex; 02-03-2011 at 12:03 AM.
    The words of a tyrant: “I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.”

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -Patrick Henry

  7. #7
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    An interesting read, but I don't agree with everything the author has said. First off, there is another option to getting someone to do what you want them to do. ASK! Yes, you can ask, which by the way is probably the most used method of getting someone to do what you want them to do for you. I am surprised the author missed it. Maybe it says more about his approach to others than anything. Notwithstanding, every interaction that seeks a specific response does not have to viewed as requiring force or reason.
    <SNIP>
    The author didn't miss it, you simply failed to understand that "asking" falls under the very broad category of reasoning with someone. Sometimes reasoning is easy, sometimes hard. It can take the shape of simply asking for something in the lightest way, or even demanding it in your loudest voice.

    You took the analogy that the author intended a bit too literal.
    Last edited by FMCDH; 02-03-2011 at 12:07 AM.

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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    Speaking of good pieces on gun philosophy...have any of you read The Tao of Gun? That's another, along with the Gun is Civilization, that I always recommend to people wondering why I feel the need to carry a gun. It's great for fence-riders and those against the idea completely.

    http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/tao.asp


    And yah, I'm not sure why someone felt the need to claim a fictitious "Major Caudill" as the author of the Gun Is Civilization. Props to the Munchkin Wrangler!
    Last edited by skiingislife725; 02-03-2011 at 10:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiingislife725 View Post
    ...And yah, I'm not sure why someone felt the need to claim a fictitious "Major Caudill" as the author of the Gun Is Civilization. Props to the Munchkin Wrangler!
    That usually happens when someone believes (erroneously) that the original author doesn't have enough letters after their name, or the correct letters. My mother forwards stuff to me all the time that has been "artistically" changed by one person or another on the internet (gosh, thanks mom!)... For some reason, a lot of people think that coming from a retired USMC officer makes it "better" or more valid some how - I've seen a lot of -uh- stuff that Marine officers are credited with writing.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    I could care less about its authorship.

    The essay is rock solid.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    I am sure the person who sweated over writing it, tweaking each word to get it right, cares about who wrote it.

    It is important that the right person get credit for the effort.

    That being said, this essay is attributed incorrectly so often that it would be unreasonable to hold it against the poster for getting the attribution wrong. However, when the correct authorship is pointed out, I hope that we all care.

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I am sure the person who sweated over writing it, tweaking each word to get it right, cares about who wrote it.

    It is important that the right person get credit for the effort.

    That being said, this essay is attributed incorrectly so often that it would be unreasonable to hold it against the poster for getting the attribution wrong. However, when the correct authorship is pointed out, I hope that we all care.
    I think what he was pointing out that regardless of who wrote it he appreciates the material.

    But yes it is good to properly attribute authorship.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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