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    626 Question

    In PC 626. . .

    2) "Safe school zone" means an area that encompasses any of the
    following places during regular school hours or within 60 minutes
    before or after the schoolday or 60 minutes before or after a
    school-sponsored activity at the schoolsite:
    (A) Within 100 feet of a bus stop, whether or not a public transit
    bus stop, that has been publicly designated by the school district
    as a schoolbus stop. This definition applies only if the school
    district has chosen to mark the bus stop as a schoolbus stop.
    (B) Within 1,500 feet of a school, as designated by the school
    district.


    linked from : http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...ile=626-626.11

    My understand was that a GFSZ applied 24/7. . . according to this, does that mean that 60 minutes after school releases session you can carry in a public area within the GFSZ, though still not advisable?

    I have been avoiding a particular shopping center like the plague for months now, even during the dark hours. Was I wrong to be doing that this whole time?

    Any input helps!

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD5 View Post
    In PC 626. . .

    2) "Safe school zone" means an area that encompasses any of the
    following places during regular school hours or within 60 minutes
    before or after the schoolday or 60 minutes before or after a
    school-sponsored activity at the schoolsite:
    (A) Within 100 feet of a bus stop, whether or not a public transit
    bus stop, that has been publicly designated by the school district
    as a schoolbus stop. This definition applies only if the school
    district has chosen to mark the bus stop as a schoolbus stop.
    (B) Within 1,500 feet of a school, as designated by the school
    district.


    linked from : http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...ile=626-626.11

    My understand was that a GFSZ applied 24/7. . . according to this, does that mean that 60 minutes after school releases session you can carry in a public area within the GFSZ, though still not advisable?

    I have been avoiding a particular shopping center like the plague for months now, even during the dark hours. Was I wrong to be doing that this whole time?

    Any input helps!
    A school safe zone as you quoted is from the first section of the code and is a definiton of what a "School safe zone" is, not a "gun free school zone".

    it refers particually to bus stops and a 100 foot zone around them and a 1500 foot zone around "school site" which must be designated by the school district. And stipulates 60 minutes before and after sponsored school events.

    Although there is nothing stating how it is designated or how the public finds this information out. It states the bus stop must be marked and it may or may not be a public bus stop.

    So to me it sounds like a very flimsy way to inflate all School zones to 1500' during school hours and then it reverts to 1000' an hour after and before classes or on the wekends (as long as their is no school sponsored weekend event).

    But how can one reasonably know whats been designated if their is no means of sigange or public knowledge when these School safe zones are declared.

    The example that pops in my head is Meeting for lunch with friends UOC'ing at a coffee shop patio that just happens to be across the street from Hillary Clinton Elementary schools field trip to the Kalifornia communist library. Oops!! didnt you guys get the memo this is a designated School safe zone today, guess thats 2-5 years in jail for you foolish Americans.
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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    This is a very important distinction in the laws. Thanks to you guys for reviewing it on this board.

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    Thanks for the help with that clarification!

    I was not totally sure on the difference when it came to SSZ and GFSZ's.

    This makes sense to now. After doing some more research on on 626.9's wording I'm a little more comfortable with UOCing on private/business property now than I was before as well. I made a few calls to make sure the local market I was avoiding was safe, and their managers said they identified themselves as either private or a place of business.

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD5 View Post
    Thanks for the help with that clarification!

    I was not totally sure on the difference when it came to SSZ and GFSZ's.

    This makes sense to now. After doing some more research on on 626.9's wording I'm a little more comfortable with UOCing on private/business property now than I was before as well. I made a few calls to make sure the local market I was avoiding was safe, and their managers said they identified themselves as either private or a place of business.
    If it was me, having followed Theseus story and seen how a corrupt DA and Judge can be, I would not put myself in any situation where im within 1000' even on private/business property. We still live in the Republic of Kalifornia, and many people in powerful places are still drinking the kool aid and hunting UOC'rs with torches and pitch forks. Im sure there are many places to carry in your neck of the woods, and malls have been known to be not helpful to our cause.

    Im just saying pick you battlefields, take the high ground and dont give anyone, any opportunity, to take you to court over the insanely stupid penal codes.
    Unless you have an extra $50k and like the inside of a courtroom.
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    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    If it was me, having followed Theseus story and seen how a corrupt DA and Judge can be, I would not put myself in any situation where im within 1000' even on private/business property. We still live in the Republic of Kalifornia, and many people in powerful places are still drinking the kool aid and hunting UOC'rs with torches and pitch forks. Im sure there are many places to carry in your neck of the woods, and malls have been known to be not helpful to our cause.

    Im just saying pick you battlefields, take the high ground and dont give anyone, any opportunity, to take you to court over the insanely stupid penal codes.
    Unless you have an extra $50k and like the inside of a courtroom.
    Well said. I wouldn't risk it either. The Thesis (mockery of a) case shows that the whole "private" property open to the public issue is a damocles sword that i personally don't want to stand under.

    As a side note.
    Am i the only one that found Thesis's handle food for thought?

    the·sis   /ˈθisɪs/
    [thee-sis]
    –noun, plural -ses  /-siz/
    [-seez]
    .
    1. a proposition stated or put forward for consideration, especially one to be discussed and proved or to be maintained against objections: He vigorously defended his thesis on the causes of war.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    As a side note.
    Am i the only one that found Thesis's handle food for thought?
    It's "Theseus".

    Theseus was the mythical founder-king of Athens, son of Aethra, and fathered by Aegeus and Poseidon

    His Mom was a party girl

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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army View Post
    It's "Theseus".

    Theseus was the mythical founder-king of Athens, son of Aethra, and fathered by Aegeus and Poseidon

    His Mom was a party girl
    Hah..whoops.
    I read up on him.
    Even better. Theseus was a bada$$.
    Just don't copy him too much.
    ..and brandished his sword which he had kept hidden from the guards inside his tunic.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    The definition put in place for "Safe School Zone" is not related to lawful carry such as UOC. It is to be used as an enhancement for crimes commited within that zone. UOC is still legal beyond 1000'. The "Safe School Zone" 1500' zone allows for harsher sentencing of those who engage in dope dealing, gang activity etc within it.

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hunt View Post
    The definition put in place for "Safe School Zone" is not related to lawful carry such as UOC. It is to be used as an enhancement for crimes commited within that zone. UOC is still legal beyond 1000'. The "Safe School Zone" 1500' zone allows for harsher sentencing of those who engage in dope dealing, gang activity etc within it.
    Awesome thanks for the clarification
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    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    If it was me, having followed Theseus story and seen how a corrupt DA and Judge can be, I would not put myself in any situation where im within 1000' even on private/business property. We still live in the Republic of Kalifornia, and many people in powerful places are still drinking the kool aid and hunting UOC'rs with torches and pitch forks. Im sure there are many places to carry in your neck of the woods, and malls have been known to be not helpful to our cause.

    Im just saying pick you battlefields, take the high ground and dont give anyone, any opportunity, to take you to court over the insanely stupid penal codes.
    Unless you have an extra $50k and like the inside of a courtroom.
    What if it is your business property or private property? Cant you loaded conceal carry on thsoe regardless of where they are to a school, let alone UOC? And what showed the DA and judge as being corrupt?
    Last edited by yawn; 02-14-2011 at 04:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yawn View Post
    What if it is your business property or private property? Cant you loaded conceal carry on thsoe regardless of where they are to a school, let alone UOC? And what showed the DA and judge as being corrupt?

    The problem is that if you are on your private property but it is "easily accessible to the public" (read not fenced in with concertina wire, claymores and anti tank mines) it is therefore consider public property in regards to the issue of firearms.

    Now if it is fenced in but someone can easily see through it that would probably be considered public property as well the way this "nation of Kali" works.

    The easiest thing to do would be to go here: http://www.hesco.com/US_CIVIL/aboutus.html And order a couple hundred of those and fence your property in with that. Backhoes are easily rented from various supply companies around the state and one can get fill dirt for free on craigslist....

    Then you can LCC all day on your private property....
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

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    Quote Originally Posted by yawn View Post
    What if it is your business property or private property? Cant you loaded conceal carry on thsoe regardless of where they are to a school, let alone UOC? And what showed the DA and judge as being corrupt?
    Edited for clarity.

    My case is not case law, yet.

    As for 626.9, it doesn't matter if you "lawfully possess" the property or not, all possession within 1000 feet of the grounds of a school is prohibited. However, you are protected or exempted from the enforcement of 626.9 within a residence, within a business or on private property if possession is otherwise lawful.
    Last edited by Theseus; 02-15-2011 at 12:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    The problem is that if you are on your private property but it is "easily accessible to the public" (read not fenced in with concertina wire, claymores and anti tank mines) it is therefore consider public property in regards to the issue of firearms.

    Now if it is fenced in but someone can easily see through it that would probably be considered public property as well the way this "nation of Kali" works.

    The easiest thing to do would be to go here: http://www.hesco.com/US_CIVIL/aboutus.html And order a couple hundred of those and fence your property in with that. Backhoes are easily rented from various supply companies around the state and one can get fill dirt for free on craigslist....

    Then you can LCC all day on your private property....
    Wait... why would it matter if they can see in if I am conceal carrying in my house... it is concealed and they couldn't see the gun cause it is concealed. I appreciate the humor, but it is not answering my question much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theseus View Post
    My case is not case law, yet. As for 626.9, it doesn't matter if you "lawfully possess" the property or not, all possession within 1000 feet of the grounds of a school is prohibited, within a residence, within a business and private property are exempt if possession is otherwise lawful.
    What is your case? Also, your above statement in confusing the way it is written... it is written like a befor and after clue from Wheel of Fortune. Possession of any kind on private property that you own with-in a 1000 feet is unlawful? but then you are exempt if the possession is otherwise lawful? I really am trying here guys but these posts are ubber confusing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by yawn View Post
    What is your case? Also, your above statement in confusing the way it is written... it is written like a befor and after clue from Wheel of Fortune. Possession of any kind on private property that you own with-in a 1000 feet is unlawful? but then you are exempt if the possession is otherwise lawful? I really am trying here guys but these posts are ubber confusing!
    Yeah, sorry. I clarified it, I hope.

    But for further clarification, even if you are "within a residence" technically, according to how 626.9 is written, your exemption to 626.9 is contingent on the possession being otherwise legal.

    An example is, say, brandishing. If you are within a residence brandishing a firearm at a person on the street, it could be considered as otherwise illegal and you could be charged with 626.9. That was the point (legislative intent) of 626.9, to prohibit unlawful possession, not make possession in and of itself prohibited.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yawn View Post
    Wait... why would it matter if they can see in if I am conceal carrying in my house... it is concealed and they couldn't see the gun cause it is concealed. I appreciate the humor, but it is not answering my question much.
    That was only partially humerous. There was a case of someone (sorry don't remember the name off hand) that was charged with a violation of the gfsz because he was on his property and there was not a fence around it. The courts deemed it "accessible to the public" and thus not private property which means it was a violation of the gfsz.

    Think it may have been theseus but not sure....
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    That was only partially humerous. There was a case of someone (sorry don't remember the name off hand) that was charged with a violation of the gfsz because he was on his property and there was not a fence around it. The courts deemed it "accessible to the public" and thus not private property which means it was a violation of the gfsz.

    Think it may have been theseus but not sure....
    My case did involve 626.9. To summarize, I was doing laundry at a strip-mall that was within 1000 feet of the south end of a school parking lot. The DA asked, and the judge rules that "private property open to the public is not private property for the purposes of 626.9".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theseus View Post
    My case did involve 626.9. To summarize, I was doing laundry at a strip-mall that was within 1000 feet of the south end of a school parking lot. The DA asked, and the judge rules that "private property open to the public is not private property for the purposes of 626.9".
    I was mistaken then I apologize.

    The same still holds true for not fenced in yards though from what I ubderstand about the ruling
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    I was mistaken then I apologize.

    The same still holds true for not fenced in yards though from what I ubderstand about the ruling
    The not fenced yards creates a public place for purposes of 12031, but that has nothing to do with my case. IIRC, it was Strider?
    Last edited by Theseus; 02-16-2011 at 01:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theseus View Post
    The not fenced yards creates a public place for purposes of 12031, but that has nothing to do with my case. IIRC, it was Strider?
    I couldn't tell you for sure. I read too much crap nowadays to remeber most of it anymore.

    What I do remember is there was someone who possessed a firearm on private property that was not fenced in within the free victims halo around a school and they got charged for it.

    Don't know who it was, thought it might have been you but apparently I was wrong, it happens.

    Again I apologize for the confusion hope that clarifies a little better.
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    I couldn't tell you for sure. ... someone who possessed a firearm on private property that was not fenced in...
    This isn't really directed directly at you Devil; but I've seen allot of general penal code confusion on the CA forum lately...


    Here's where people very easily get confused...they forget that each specific penal code is separate and independant.

    Concealing a firearm (12025)
    Loaded firearms (12031)
    GFSZs (626.9)

    So, posession of a firearm in your unfenced front yard in a city is perfectly legal due to exemptions for 12025 with regard to lawfully posessed private property.

    HOWEVER in that exact same scenario, the firearm cannot (generally) be loaded. This is because 12031 makes it illegal in a 'public place' Case law has established that your front yard is a 'public place' if access isn't controlled.

    GFSZs make it illegal to have an unsecured handgun within the zone. It specifically provides an exception for private property which does not belong to the school. Therefore in the above scenario,
    posession of an exposed, unloaded firearm in your unfenced front yard in a city is perfectly legal due to exemptions in 626.9.

    Each section of the penal code spells out specific criterea which must be met...there are also specific exemption...don't blend the code sections together.

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    Case law for fenced yards:


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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBofRAdvocate View Post
    Case law for fenced yards:
    http://www.sdsheriff.net/legalupdates/docs/1209.pdf

    AKA, People v. Strider
    Case law for PC 12031 & fenced yards

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjones View Post
    Case law for PC 12031 & fenced yards
    I apologize for not being crystal-clear on my last post!

    markm

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