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Thread: Can I get a confirmation of OC law related questions please...

  1. #1
    Regular Member DTOMSD's Avatar
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    Question Can I get a confirmation of OC law related questions please...

    Can I get a confirmation of OC law related questions please...

    True/False

    1. While an officer (in CA) may "ask" for an individual who is engaged in the "open carry" of a firearm to present their ID, compliance is NOT required assuming the "open carry" of the firearm is being conducted in a legal fashion.

    2. While an officer (in CA) may "see" the serial number of a firearm while conducting a 12031(e) inspection to verify that the firearm is unloaded, they may not "search" the weapon for the serial number.

    3. The "covering" (in CA) of the firearm serial number (ie: electrical tape) is NOT illegal, and is not considered destruction of the firearm serial number.

    4. Should a firearm be discovered (in CA) to have a "covered" serial number during a 12031(e) inspection this does NOT create probable cause or reasonable suspicion to detain an individual for any longer than is necessary to conduct the 12031(e) inspection.

    5. Audio & video recording of any personal interaction with LEO's (in CA) is completely legal with NO requirement for the individual to inform LEO's that audio & video recording is being conducted.

    6. There are no laws, regulations, ordinances, etc. within the, City of El Cajon, County of San Diego, or City of San Diego, that restrict the "Open Carry" of a firearm further than what is currently restricted via California state law.
    Last edited by DTOMSD; 02-03-2011 at 01:19 AM.

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    Regular Member A ECNALG's Avatar
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    .

    Quote Originally Posted by DTOMSD View Post
    Can I get a confirmation of OC law related questions please...

    True/False

    1. While an officer (in CA) may "ask" for an individual who is engaged in the "open carry" of a firearm to present their ID, compliance is NOT required assuming the "open carry" of the firearm is being conducted in a legal fashion. California has no "stop and identify" statute. Unless you are operating a motor vehicle or are under arrest, you are not required to give your name or show ID.

    2. While an officer (in CA) may "see" the serial number of a firearm while conducting a 12031(e) inspection to verify that the firearm is unloaded, they may not "search" the weapon for the serial number. Theoretically. Once it is outside the holster, however, LEOs will argue that the serial number (if visible on the exterior of the firearm) has now come into "plain view"

    3. The "covering" (in CA) of the firearm serial number (ie: electrical tape) is NOT illegal, and is not considered destruction of the firearm serial number. 537e. (a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes
    of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property
    from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number,
    electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or
    identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or
    destroyed, is guilty of a public offense


    4. Should a firearm be discovered (in CA) to have a "covered" serial number during a 12031(e) inspection this does NOT create probable cause or reasonable suspicion to detain an individual for any longer than is necessary to conduct the 12031(e) inspection. See 3.

    5. Audio & video recording of any personal interaction with LEO's (in CA) is completely legal with NO requirement for the individual to inform LEO's that audio & video recording is being conducted. Only conversations where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy by one party are subject to the prohibition, as I understand this.

    6. There are no laws, regulations, ordinances, etc. within the, City of El Cajon, County of San Diego, or City of San Diego, that restrict the "Open Carry" of a firearm further than what is currently restricted via California state law. Study the municipal codes.
    ..

  3. #3
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Good answers from A ECNALG except for this last one.

    Quote Originally Posted by DTOMSD View Post
    6. There are no laws, regulations, ordinances, etc. within the, City of El Cajon, County of San Diego, or City of San Diego, that restrict the "Open Carry" of a firearm further than what is currently restricted via California state law.
    State law preempts local law. If there is an ordinance prohibiting open carry of firearms at a city or county level, that law is unenforceable (but police may still arrest you for it if they are uninformed). Oceanside is a good example of this, as there is a city code prohibiting open carry. A marine was arrested for UOCing a couple of years ago, the Calguns Foundation presented the argument that the law is preempted and void, and the prosecuting attorney never brought forth a case. There is at least one individual on this forum who regularly carries in Oceanside and has had several police encounters and has not been arrested.

    Regarding A ECNALG's answer about providing ID if arrested, I'd recommend exercising your right to remain silent if arrested. Ask to talk to your lawyer and that's it.

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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    Good answers from A ECNALG except for this last one.



    State law preempts local law. If there is an ordinance prohibiting open carry of firearms at a city or county level, that law is unenforceable (but police may still arrest you for it if they are uninformed). Oceanside is a good example of this, as there is a city code prohibiting open carry. A marine was arrested for UOCing a couple of years ago, the Calguns Foundation presented the argument that the law is preempted and void, and the prosecuting attorney never brought forth a case. There is at least one individual on this forum who regularly carries in Oceanside and has had several police encounters and has not been arrested.

    Regarding A ECNALG's answer about providing ID if arrested, I'd recommend exercising your right to remain silent if arrested. Ask to talk to your lawyer and that's it.

    Is there a case name/record of this?

    Might be useful to mail to the LA city council...

  5. #5
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Like I said, no charges were filed, so there isn't a case. Here is the initial thread on CGF taking up the defense, and here is the man who was arrested saying that no charges were filed a year after the arrest.

    Really the only argument one should need to present to the LA City Council would be to read from Article 11, Section 7 of the California Constitution:

    A county or city may make and enforce within its limits all
    local, police, sanitary, and other ordinances and regulations not in
    conflict with general laws.
    Making a local law which prohibits open carry conflicts with PC 12025(f) which states:

    Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed
    within the meaning of this section.
    ETA: This case may be useful to further explain preemption, specifically section A.
    Last edited by bigtoe416; 02-04-2011 at 02:11 PM. Reason: adding case citation

  6. #6
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    Is there a case name/record of this?

    Might be useful to mail to the LA city council...
    There was no case. See 2008-present: http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/abo...me-lately.html

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