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Thread: Blame assigned for Fort Hood

  1. #1
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    Blame assigned for Fort Hood

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...ntent=My+Yahoo

    The Senate has assigned blame for the Fort Hood shooting.

    Well, it wasn't Hassan and it wasn't the fact that no one was permitted to possess the tools needed to defend themsleves.


  2. #2
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    So.... its the FBI's fault for not detecting and deterring him early enough? Good thing it wasn't the shooter's fault, that might look a bit bad for the Muslim community.

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    ah come on guys, if we call him a muslim extremeist and blame it on that, then we are not being understanding.... if we blame it on him being insane we are insencitive, you all know that...(sarcasm by the way) what bugged me the most about this, other then the fact it happened, was that the media kept showing him in uniform and refering to him as Major whatever(name and rank, enlisted or officer, is a thing of honor and pride!). My favorite part, the MP who risked HER life the took him out! You know that has to humiliate him, being that" women are the lessor side to the human race". I say death penalty for treason!
    Last edited by greatsimon; 02-03-2011 at 07:36 PM.
    why do school shootings happen.... for the same reason they never happen at a shooting range.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Let me see if I get this right.

    SCOTUS says the police are NOT required to come to our aid or to protest us, but the Senate say the FBI failed to protect the troops.

    Too late for duct tape - waaay too late.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatsimon View Post
    . My favorite part, the MP who risked HER life the took him out! You know that has to humiliate him, being that" women are the lessor side to the human race". I say death penalty for treason!
    Wasn't an MP,,it was a DA Cop, and there were too of them,,a male and a female, she wounded him,,the male took him the rest of the way down. She got wounded in the fray. Just correcting the inaccuracy of your knowledge, no offense meant. But I'm a DA Cop and know the full story.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Wasn't an MP,,it was a DA Cop, and there were too of them,,a male and a female, she wounded him,,the male took him the rest of the way down. She got wounded in the fray. Just correcting the inaccuracy of your knowledge, no offense meant. But I'm a DA Cop and know the full story.
    DA is what???
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member thnycav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    So.... its the FBI's fault for not detecting and deterring him early enough? Good thing it wasn't the shooter's fault, that might look a bit bad for the Muslim community.
    The failings of the his chain of command to take care of him and not just pass him along for someone else to deal with him is at fault as well. This however does not reduce the responabilty the shooter had.

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    There is one place to lay blame: On the Islamic terrorist who opened fire after yelling "Allahu Akbar!"

    There is one fix to minimize such future incidents and to minimize the carnage when they do happen: Allow carry on the most ridiculous GFZ in history, i.e. military installations.

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    Regular Member thnycav's Avatar
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    It is better to prevent than react. The knew he was a problem and should have been handled before being sent to Ft Hood. Do you make sure the barn is locked after the horse is running down the road?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thnycav View Post
    It is better to prevent than react. The knew he was a problem and should have been handled before being sent to Ft Hood. Do you make sure the barn is locked after the horse is running down the road?
    Oh they're not locking the door - just letting it flap in the wind. The senate blames the FBI, others blame the military itself, but the bottom line is that NOTHING has changed. Still business as usual.

    Stay tuned for the next exciting chapter.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    Whuuuuuuuuuu? You mean to tell me that our extremely well fund and staffed US government agencies failed to execute their assigned due to cover up, bureaucracy, chain of command failures and on and on and on?

    That's UNPOSSIBLE! You know what we need? Another government agency to oversee these agencies. And a few more committees too. Oh and don't forget to throw billions of dollars at it too. That always seems to help.

    [/sarcasm]

    Bobby

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    DA is what???
    Department of the Army.

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    Regular Member thnycav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobarino View Post
    Whuuuuuuuuuu? You mean to tell me that our extremely well fund and staffed US government agencies failed to execute their assigned due to cover up, bureaucracy, chain of command failures and on and on and on?

    That's UNPOSSIBLE! You know what we need? Another government agency to oversee these agencies. And a few more committees too. Oh and don't forget to throw billions of dollars at it too. That always seems to help.

    [/sarcasm]

    Bobby
    No we just need the leadership to do their job. If they can not do it they need to be replaced with ones who can.

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    Regular Member VetteFreakC5's Avatar
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    yea, but the sad thing is....in the Army just the accusation of racism will end your career, wether you are right about what you said or not....

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VetteFreakC5 View Post
    yea, but the sad thing is....in the Army just the accusation of racism will end your career, wether you are right about what you said or not....
    I will grant you that being "politically correct" isn't working out very well, is it?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    So they are laying some of the blame with Anwar al-Awlaki, the CIA's lackey? Then I think that makes the CIA and the DOD partly responsible too, since al-Awlaki is a known CIA assett, and has been reported to have been having cozy meetings in the Pentagon just months following 9-11...

    Do the research folks--the "War on Terror" is really just a "War OF Terror", where most of the actors are ultimately working for the same commanders--or at least payrolled by the same people...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    What a silly little report.

    The blame lies solely on the shooter, period.

    The bad thing is that the result of all this will be further restrictions against carrying on military installations.

    There, that'll fix it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    What a silly little report.

    The blame lies solely on the shooter, period.

    The bad thing is that the result of all this will be further restrictions against carrying on military installations.

    There, that'll fix it.
    Agreed! The blame for the act lies with the shooter. Others MAY have been able to do something earlier IF they had chosen to act instead of ignore. I don't know how much they could have done WITHOUT violating his rights and I wasn't there either!

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    I can't find a single thing in the previous 18 posts with which I disagree, so I'll add another twist:

    In the wake of this report, how many non-violent innocents such as those with PTSD, depression, alcoholism, and other results common among those who've served our country will be slap-labeled and denied their Second Amendment rights in yet another pathetic attempt to stop "the nutcase factor?"

    There's only one sure way to stop a nutcase who arms himself with a gun and enters a "gun-free zone" with the intent to inflict murder and mayhem: With force.

    The problem is, now he's armed in this theoretical "gun-free zone" while the rest of us unwilling victims, er, "law-abiding citizens" have been disarmed, and are thereby no longer capable of taking him down.

    What's really behind this (rotting) upside-down cake approach to defending military installations, anyway? Let the nutcase shoot people until he runs out of bullets? That smacks of Saddam Hussein's human shields. Is that how installation commanders are "protecting" the men, women, and children on their installation?

    More than likely it's a simple case of a commander following the JAG's advice on how to limit the service's liability when it comes time for lawsuits. "Well, Ma'am, I'm sorry your son died. However, we have a standing "no firearms" policy on base."
    Last edited by since9; 02-05-2011 at 07:37 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I can't find a single thing in the previous 18 posts with which I disagree, so I'll add another twist:

    In the wake of this report, how many non-violent innocents such as those with PTSD, depression, alcoholism, and other results common among those who've served our country will be slap-labeled and denied their Second Amendment rights in yet another pathetic attempt to stop "the nutcase factor?"

    There's only one sure way to stop a nutcase who arms himself with a gun and enters a "gun-free zone" with the intent to inflict murder and mayhem: With force.

    The problem is, now he's armed in this theoretical "gun-free zone" while the rest of us unwilling victims, er, "law-abiding citizens" have been disarmed, and are thereby no longer capable of taking him down.

    What's really behind this (rotting) upside-down cake approach to defending military installations, anyway? Let the nutcase shoot people until he runs out of bullets? That smacks of Saddam Hussein's human shields. Is that how installation commanders are "protecting" the men, women, and children on their installation?

    More than likely it's a simple case of a commander following the JAG's advice on how to limit the service's liability when it comes time for lawsuits. "Well, Ma'am, I'm sorry your son died. However, we have a standing "no firearms" policy on base."
    Are you suggesting that someone use LOGIC?

    Create laws that only impede those that obey the law. Expect that Criminals will obey the law. Wonder in amazement when the criminal does not obey the law AND THEN MAKE ANOTHER LAW that the criminal WON"T OBEY because he is a Criminal.....

    Just INSANE! Because they are doing the same thing over and over AND EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESULT! Definition of insanity that I've heard before!

  21. #21
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    DA is what???
    DA is Department of the Army CIVILIAN. In other words, NOT Military Police but a civilian Police officer in the Department of the Army hire. We take the same oath to support and defend the Constitution only we are not military.
    Last edited by KansasMustang; 02-06-2011 at 06:26 AM. Reason: added phrase
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Reason or Force

    Reduced to the simplest terms, this is the "reason or force" choice one is faced when confronting a violent situation.

    http://www.reasonorforce.com/

    Let me know how reason works out for you.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Nice website, Grapeshot!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Baffled

    It is interesting that we train our soldiers to use weapons, but then only allow them to posses them when out of the country, or to practice, but when on a base in the USA, they can't be trusted to be able to control a firearm to protect them selves or others. It just baffles me it's as understandable as dropping a 4 lb sledge on your foot and yelling OUCH several times then deciding to get the 8 lb sledge and repeat the same thing. Stupendous!!!

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    Campaign Veteran kimbercarrier's Avatar
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    Well you know what this means? The FBI needs more funding and complete access to our lives to help prevent this kind of stuff.

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