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Thread: We need to secure the Attorney General's opinion!

  1. #1
    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    We need to secure the Attorney General's opinion!

    One step in the right direction for open carry in the state of Missouri would be to secure the opinion of the Attorney General with the following question. Is open carrying a firearm in and of itself reasonable suspicion to detain a person?
    The problem with this is the AG can only issue an opinion to certain entitiy's. If anyone knows any of these people try and get this done!

    Missouri Revised Statutes
    Chapter 27
    Attorney General
    Section 27.040

    August 28, 2010

    Opinions to be given, when.
    27.040. When required, he shall give his opinion, in writing, without fee, to the general assembly, or to either house, and to the governor, secretary of state, auditor, treasurer, commissioner of education, grain warehouse commissioner, director of the department of insurance, financial institutions and professional registration, the director of the division of finance, and the head of any state department, or any circuit or prosecuting attorney upon any question of law relative to their respective offices or the discharge of their duties.

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    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    I mean this as politely as possible, and without insult to our Attorney General: Screw his opinion.

    The Constitution of Missouri says the RKBA "shall not be questioned". So there's you're answer.

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    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    Terry vs Ohio?

    The states Attorney General's opinion would be a nice addition to the support. But as it stands I OC with the knowledge that the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that just the presence of a firearm is not reason enough to justify a detention. I think it was in came down as part of Terry vs Ohio if I remember correctly.

    Doc

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    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cash50 View Post
    I mean this as politely as possible, and without insult to our Attorney General: Screw his opinion.

    The Constitution of Missouri says the RKBA "shall not be questioned". So there's you're answer.
    I share the same opinion cash50. On a further note I don't repect any governmental agency or any of there "laws".
    But it would be one more beam to hold the house up.

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcbess View Post
    I share the same opinion cash50. On a further note I don't repect any governmental agency or any of there "laws".
    But it would be one more beam to hold the house up.
    If you don't respect any laws, then what difference does it make to you?

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    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    If you don't respect any laws, then what difference does it make to you?
    It's hard to convey meaning over the internet. I mean there unlawful "legality's".

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    Regular Member sohighlyunlikely's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    If you don't respect any laws, then what difference does it make to you?
    I think he means any laws there are in direct violation to our guarantied Constitutional Rights.

    Doc

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sohighlyunlikely View Post
    I think he means any laws there are in direct violation to our guarantied Constitutional Rights.

    Doc
    There are thousands of laws that are in direct violation to our Constitutional rights. Unfortunately, we have to respect them enough to follow them until such time we can get them changed, or face the arrests/jail time/fines that are associated with violating them. It sucks, but it's reality.

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    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    Allow me to use a political pos cliche:

    We need to stop "BIG" government.

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    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    There are thousands of laws that are in direct violation to our Constitutional rights. Unfortunately, we have to respect them enough to follow them until such time we can get them changed, or face the arrests/jail time/fines that are associated with violating them. It sucks, but it's reality.
    I will take the American way, stand up for my rights, and take my jailtime or death. Thats how it went for our founders. They sacrificed time and life for liberty. Nobobdy has cares or has enough balls to stand up as the founders of this country did against the tyranny of those who ruled over them.

    Give me liberty or give me death!

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcbess View Post
    I will take the American way, stand up for my rights, and take my jailtime or death. Thats how it went for our founders. They sacrificed time and life for liberty. Nobobdy has cares or has enough balls to stand up as the founders of this country did against the tyranny of those who ruled over them.

    Give me liberty or give me death!
    If you were serious about that, you would have already been in prison by now. Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Your cause will be much better served by people taking a proactive stand on a legislative level rather than breaking laws just because they feel they are unjust.

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    Give me liberty or give me death, I always found to be an odd quote because I pretty much feel the only way we will acheive actual liberty from what we experience now is when we are actually dead. Me, at the moment, would prefer to have the restricted liberty we live in now and even possibly more so in our future than have death. I have the rest of eternity to be dead so I see no reason to hurry that one along.

    Liberty is just a shade of grey to me. There is never going to be true liberty as far as I am concerned.

    People talk about how we are free here in America and I just don't buy it. Freedom to me isn't what we currently have. We are only as free as we are being given permission to be. That's not freedom, not for me and not in today's America.

    Its practically impossible to be both alive and free in today's world unless you can go to some remote places and remove your daily life from that of any govermental interference and accounting. There is only relative freedom such that we can compare how much more liberty we are allowed in our personal situations as opposed to other groups of people amongst us and around the world by those who exert influence and control over them. Now our forefathers sought more liberty for themselves and relatively speaking for their day and age, they achieved an expansion of it. That is, for many among their ranks, but even then there were so many still living within the confines of their country such as women and blacks that were excluded from those levels of freedom either won or granted to the men of those days.

    I would like to be alot more free than I am right now. I yearn for it. I don't want to be free such that I can go out and take from others what is not mine to take or hurt others without serious repurcussions, but I would really enjoy my life alot more if the government would stay the hell out of it as much as humanly and morally possible.

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    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcbess View Post
    I will take the American way, stand up for my rights, and take my jailtime or death. Thats how it went for our founders. They sacrificed time and life for liberty. Nobobdy has cares or has enough balls to stand up as the founders of this country did against the tyranny of those who ruled over them.

    Give me liberty or give me death!
    Didn't you give up your ID to the "bad cop" down in Arnold or Fenton when you were OC'ing??

    Seems contradictory.

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    I would be hesitant to solicit the opinions of any lawmakers, even those who might be agreeable to our cause. The fact of the matter, in my opinion, is that the 2nd Amendment affirms our rights (note that I say say affirms rather than 'gives' - since I believe that our rights are derived from God). In the absence of any other laws it would seem that the free exercise of our rights is the best way to continue to enjoy them. In asking for the opinion of the Attorney General (or anyone else), there is an inherent risk that they might answer in a way that would be counter to our aims. It is better to live as the free persons that we are than to ask for approval from the powers-that-be. If they seek to harass, detain, or delay us then the shame falls upon them. If we ask for permission to do that which we ought already to be able to do and are denied then the shame falls on us.

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk View Post
    I would be hesitant to solicit the opinions of any lawmakers, even those who might be agreeable to our cause. The fact of the matter, in my opinion, is that the 2nd Amendment affirms our rights (note that I say say affirms rather than 'gives' - since I believe that our rights are derived from God). In the absence of any other laws it would seem that the free exercise of our rights is the best way to continue to enjoy them. In asking for the opinion of the Attorney General (or anyone else), there is an inherent risk that they might answer in a way that would be counter to our aims. It is better to live as the free persons that we are than to ask for approval from the powers-that-be. If they seek to harass, detain, or delay us then the shame falls upon them. If we ask for permission to do that which we ought already to be able to do and are denied then the shame falls on us.
    The OP is asking for a legal opinion as to whether or not taking part in a lawful act constitutes probable cause. He's not asking for a lawmaker to give an opinion on a right.
    Last edited by cshoff; 02-07-2011 at 11:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcbess View Post
    One step in the right direction for open carry in the state of Missouri would be to secure the opinion of the Attorney General with the following question. Is open carrying a firearm in and of itself reasonable suspicion to detain a person?
    The problem with this is the AG can only issue an opinion to certain entitiy's. If anyone knows any of these people try and get this done!

    Missouri Revised Statutes
    Chapter 27
    Attorney General
    Section 27.040

    August 28, 2010

    Opinions to be given, when.
    27.040. When required, he shall give his opinion, in writing, without fee, to the general assembly, or to either house, and to the governor, secretary of state, auditor, treasurer, commissioner of education, grain warehouse commissioner, director of the department of insurance, financial institutions and professional registration, the director of the division of finance, and the head of any state department, or any circuit or prosecuting attorney upon any question of law relative to their respective offices or the discharge of their duties.

    Please tell me you're joking. Do you understand that AG Koster has illustrated to the entire State through his own in-action that he does not care about any issue that does not promote his political career or equate to $$ in some manner? If he did, he would have sued the Fed over the healthcare bill. If he did, he would sick his dogs on bad businesses. If he did, he would sick the dogs on the epidemic of bad cops in this State. Trust me, there's a lot more he's been neglecting that involves our own politicians.

    Heck, you probably wouldn't even get a response from him. If you got any response it would likely come from his underling(s).

    This particular subject is going to be a matter of process that WILL ultimately have to go to the courts. The top law-dog in the State isn't going to undermine the LE community, not with Unions there to pressure his political career.


    How about this. Is this a petitionable issue? If so, let's get a petition started and get our own legislators involved STAT! I'll gladly sign a petition on this mattr to force the question to be answered, even if it means we get an answer we do not like.
    Last edited by REALteach4u; 02-08-2011 at 10:53 AM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cash50 View Post
    Didn't you give up your ID to the "bad cop" down in Arnold or Fenton when you were OC'ing??

    Seems contradictory.
    Yes it was in Eureka. Bear in mind that was only my second OC encounter. I have grown since then. The past does not dictate the future.

  18. #18
    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    If you were serious about that, you would have already been in prison by now. Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Your cause will be much better served by people taking a proactive stand on a legislative level rather than breaking laws just because they feel they are unjust.
    I'm really not concerned with you being convinced.

  19. #19
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcbess View Post
    I'm really not concerned with you being convinced.
    You don't have to convince me of anything. Frankly, I don't care one way or the other if you do something that lands you a felony conviction and you're never able to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights again. If you think that will help you achieve your goal, then more power to you. Most of us are smart enough to realize that there are alternate routes that MUST be taken if these laws are going to get changed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcbess View Post
    Yes it was in Eureka. Bear in mind that was only my second OC encounter. I have grown since then. The past does not dictate the future.
    i am surprised, considering eureka and its location.

    you must have got a new cop or just ones who wanted to be dickheads.

  21. #21
    thomaswoodfin5
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    While the opinion is not in our favor, I have to admit that seems to be consistent with the case and statutory law.

    As you know, the problem is one of the precise boundaries. Nobody knows where the real limits WMA.

    It is not unlike Hot Springs, before changing the law allows in national parks. About 8 or 9 years, I wrote the NPS and asked about HSNP limits, and problems in other jurisdictions where the streets of the city fell within NP.

    I returned a non-answer that basically said, "We do not anticipate charging anyone who is legally carrying a firearm under state law, provided they are not in a Park Service building."

    Cold comfort if you are the one being charged.

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