Kel Tec Snap/Recoil

So slap me in the face I am actually looking at getting a Kel Tec P-11... I think the sight radius is pretty decent, better then most snub nose revolvers by far. Also I like the idea of having a round with good knock down in such a small package...

But theres where concerns start... How bad does this little pistol snap? It seems it has a lower barrel axis which could give it more a push then a snap or flip. However I havent shot one so I was hoping to get some opinions from some of you who have.

Thanks!

Mine has a rite good snap but with the finger extension on the magazine it isn't THAT bad to shoot. 50 rounds is enough to make ya go "OK, that's enough for the day" and if your fingers are frozen/cold, you will NOT like shooting it at all! I discovered that the other day when I went out with KellyAsh! Once my hand warmed up, it was just fine and I was able to group just fine with it.

The P3AT is just vicious and you MUST get the mag extension to get a good grip on that puppy! Once you do though, you will find it surprisingly accurate!

So the P-3AT is worst then the P-11? Or are you talking just about the P-3AT in your post? Sorry just a little lost...

I believe he was talking about both.
I have both the P-11 and the P3AT. Both are fine pistols, but you must have a secure grip on them when you fire them because if you don't they will not cycle properly. They have heavy triggers, the P-11 has an 8.5 pound trigger spring in it. I don't know what the P3AT has. The heavy trigger springs are a part of the recoil system in as much as it s needed to slow the slide down.
I have in the past carried them CC. I realized that they were not adequate for my purposes. That's why I now carry my XD40 now for both CC and OC.

I have the P3AT and find the recoil to be suprisingly light compared to what I thought it would be. I have no problems with it at all but I do have small hands so that may make a difference. Complicated story but a friend of mine wound up with a P-9 from an auction at Bud's gun shop at a very good deal. I said that for that price I would take one too even if I didn't need it. The next day he comes in and says that his friend who is a FFL gun dealer says he maybe can get one for me at the same price if I want it. Turns out that 3 people have taken the FFL up on his offer and he now has them on order waiting for delivery.

I really like the P3AT but haven't shot a P-9 or P-11 so I can't speak for them but if anything like the P3AT they are fine. What I like is I can slip one in my pocket and don't have to worry about it. I realize the limited capacity and power but they are much better than a sharp stick and much easier to conceal than a Desert Eagle.

But the the P-3AT is lighter recoil then the P-11 by far wouldnt it? I know the P-3AT is a little smaller but not enough to make the .380 kick like the P-11 9mm is it???

A lot of what I been reading makes me almost afraid to try this pistol. Guys calling it "Painful" to shoot? Be honest I have never found a pistol that was "Painful" besides when I shot Dads .357 for the first time and it busted my lip... but I was only about 8 or so...

The P3AT is half the weight of the P-11 (roughly) and 90% as powerful which means the recoil is worse.
It's a pity you're over 2000 miles from me or I'd invite you over and the two of us would take a whole bunch of handguns and a thousand or two rounds of ammo to a local shooting area and I'd let you shoot until your hand hurt. Heck I'd even try to sell you a bunch of firearms since I have about 4 or 5 dozen I don't need or shoot any more.

jeeper1 said:

The P3AT is half the weight of the P-11 (roughly) and 90% as powerful which means the recoil is worse.
It's a pity you're over 2000 miles from me or I'd invite you over and the two of us would take a whole bunch of handguns and a thousand or two rounds of ammo to a local shooting area and I'd let you shoot until your hand hurt. Heck I'd even try to sell you a bunch of firearms since I have about 4 or 5 dozen I don't need or shoot any more.

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Can we be friends??

Yes.
Where's centreville?
One can never have too many friends especially when one needs to borrow money.

Ok so recoil is worst... then why the heck would someone want a P-3AT over the P-11... Well that makes up my mind on the topic less recoil, more knock down and cheaper to shoot... I'll keep looking for a P-11.

It is a shame, someone just needs to invent a Teleport machine so we can just all to get together... have a huge OC luncheon then go shooting... "BEAM ME UP SCOTTY". I wonder if we did that if Obama would still want us "inventing" lol.

jeeper1 said:

Yes.
Where's centreville?
One can never have too many friends especially when one needs to borrow money.

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I'm almost as far away from WA as you can get and still be in the lower 48.

I would like to clarify about the recoil of my PF-9. With it , the recoil isn't so bad over any other 9 MM pistol . However , because of how narrow the grip is , you don't have the whole palm of your hand to absorb the recoil. Therefore , more feeling of pain after a short time of firing.

I can handle a fair amount of recoil.. have shot a 29 S&W with 4" BBL. loaded with full house loads. But I only shoot 50 rounds at a session out of my PF-9. I can shoot more out of it but I don't like my hand being sore the next day.

You are talking about the P-11 which has a little wider grip frame which should alleviate some of the "kick " factor.

The way I see it , this is a self defense gun...not a range shooter. Put 50 rounds through it to stay tuned in with it and use something else to put rounds down range for fun.

jayspapa said:

I would like to clarify about the recoil of my PF-9. With it , the recoil isn't so bad over any other 9 MM pistol . However , because of how narrow the grip is , you don't have the whole palm of your hand to absorb the recoil. Therefore , more feeling of pain after a short time of firing.

I can handle a fair amount of recoil.. have shot a 29 S&W with 4" BBL. loaded with full house loads. But I only shoot 50 rounds at a session out of my PF-9. I can shoot more out of it but I don't like my hand being sore the next day.

You are talking about the P-11 which has a little wider grip frame which should alleviate some of the "kick " factor.

The way I see it , this is a self defense gun...not a range shooter. Put 50 rounds through it to stay tuned in with it and use something else to put rounds down range for fun.

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I am not looking for a range gun. However I do want a self defense pistol that I can put a box of ammo through at a time to stay in tune with it. I plan on getting a .22 of close size to my self defense weapon to use as a range gun. That way I can shoot a lot with out spending a lot, and still practice with a weapon the same size as my self defense weapon. To me thats the only thing that really makes sense, I know others rather shoot larger pistols at the range, but to me it just a waste of money.

I have LARGE hands and find the P3AT to recoil a noticeable amount more than the P11. Once I added the magazine extension to mine, I could get a better grip on it and that made a HUGE difference in the perceived recoil. Before the trigger guard would slap my trigger finger HARD taking the fun right out of shooting it! After the change, it was much more manageable and I could get great groups one handed with either hand.

The trigger pull is lighter on the .380 compared to the P11 I found. I and seriously thinking about loosening up the trigger on my P11 IF that doesn't affect its reliability. I would like to see a different trigger profile and to have more room in the trigger guard too and may get out the old Dremmel tool and address that!

HeroHog said:

I have LARGE hands and find the P3AT to recoil a noticeable amount more than the P11. Once I added the magazine extension to mine, I could get a better grip on it and that made a HUGE difference in the perceived recoil. Before the trigger guard would slap my trigger finger HARD taking the fun right out of shooting it! After the change, it was much more manageable and I could get great groups one handed with either hand.

The trigger pull is lighter on the .380 compared to the P11 I found. I and seriously thinking about loosening up the trigger on my P11 IF that doesn't affect its reliability. I would like to see a different trigger profile and to have more room in the trigger guard too and may get out the old Dremmel tool and address that!

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Kel Tec says the p3AT has 5lbs trigger where as the p11 has 9lbs... personally for a DAO pistol with no safety I rather have the heavier trigger. But being use to revolvers I dont mind heavy triggers. I have larger hand yet thin fingers, so trigger guards usually dont bother me.

Thank you for the side by side comparison and recoil detail. I am actually thinking about accepting a NIB p3AT in a trade for the dollar amount of about $180 which I feel is a good deal. Really wanting a p11 but hard to pass up a good deal.

Don't worry about sight radius. The P11 isn't nearly refined enough for longer distance sighted fire. At least not in a social situation, or in any circumstance requiring speed. The gun just wasn't designed that way. I would also suggest that the key to conquering the very snappy recoil is to grip the gun as tight as possible when firing it. I've found this gun to do better with one handed rapid fire point shooting than with slow fire sight picture 2 handed shooting.

The thing to remember about all handguns, but especially small ones with terrible triggers and bad recoil is that from about 5 to 15 or 20 feet and when firing rapidly, your sub conscious mind can keep track of where a pistol is pointing, even under harsh recoil and muzzle flip, much better than your eyes can interface the sight, your hands and the target together. I've found this definitely holds true at the range while standing still and shooting P-11s at stationary targets, so imagine how much more important it could be in adverse conditions if your life is on the line. Bottom line is that I don't suggest you get a gun with a small size, harsh recoil and muzzle flip and one of the worst triggers on the market if you plan to potentially use the sights in a defensive situation. It will not work.

It's no secret that I hate DAO and find it incredibly deficient because of the lower possible rates of fire, and that is particularly true of the P-11's horrendously long pull, but I gotta say, these don't make a terrible choice if they fit your needs. Kahr and Glock still make better alternatives, but for the money, size, power, capacity and reliability, you will not find a better gun.

One other thing, in regards to affordable practice, if you reload 9mm, and cast your own bullets, you may find yourself shooting 9mm ammo which shot for shot cost you less than .22.

You will not regret the P3AT. Get the extended mag or finger end cap for the mag and hang on tight. I loved mine and will get another! It disappears in your hand or pocket when ya want it to. The accuracy is better than you think on either gun as well. Ask my friends who have seen me shoot mine! Last outing I was hitting and knocking down steel poppers at 25 yards as fast or faster with my P11 than my friend with his full size .45!

PS: Both "stack up" just before the trigger breaks allowing for good accuracy. Doesn't take long to develop a feel for it.

Personally I dont have an issue with DAO triggers. Most revolvers are that way. Also I dont believe that you wont be as accurate in self defense. You fight the way you train, so train for all situations and you will be prepare.