Open Carry MYTHS .... NEED FACTS

Okay,

I need FACTS on a couple of the "assertions" I keep reading and hearing.

1. I would like the factual numbers and related information (links to stories) on the "many cases" there have been where "open carry" resulted in the firearm being "snatched away" and used against the owner or another person.

2. I would like the factual numbers and related information (links to stories) on open carriers being "shot first" by robbers and other "bad guys" because they were seen to be armed.


Yes, these are subjects that are used by CC people to beat us about the head and demonize OC.
Yes, I want to have FACTS to refute their lies.

Please help me find these answers.

Thanks in advance.....

marionmedic said:

Okay,

I need FACTS on a couple of the "assertions" I keep reading and hearing.

1. I would like the factual numbers and related information (links to stories) on the "many cases" there have been where "open carry" resulted in the firearm being "snatched away" and used against the owner or another person.

2. I would like the factual numbers and related information (links to stories) on open carriers being "shot first" by robbers and other "bad guys" because they were seen to be armed.


Yes, these are subjects that are used by CC people to beat us about the head and demonize OC.
Yes, I want to have FACTS to refute their lies.

Please help me find these answers.

Thanks in advance.....

Click to expand...

Well it's hard to prove things that don't happen. If there were cases where guns were snatched and OCers shot they would make the news. So far internet searches have not found any.

Well, there was one robbery in Wisconsin where a guy was robbed and his OC gun was taken. It's not clear if the robbers did it just for the gun or if they noticed it while they were robbing the guy.

While anything could happen and a gun grab or someone shot for OCing may happen in the future, it's still more likely you would be hit by lighting first. So possible yes, probable, not so much. I would rather OC and reap the benefits, than worry about something that is unlikely to happen (Gun grab, shot.)

none of those types of events have happened yet, so you won't be finding anything on the net. What you will find though, is that open carriers have prevented an armed robbery at a waffle house down in GA, methinks. Use that, as that has some weight behind it, for the 'oc is a passive deterrent' i always use whenever talking to people who mostly CC.

I suspect he knows that.

The myths don't come up often enough and get refuted in other threads, so one had to be started dedicated just to them.

marionmedic said:

Okay,

I need FACTS on a couple of the "assertions" I keep reading and hearing.

1. I would like the factual numbers and related information (links to stories) on the "many cases" there have been where "open carry" resulted in the firearm being "snatched away" and used against the owner or another person.

Click to expand...

If someone makes such assertion, it is up to THEM to find those numbers.

marionmedic said:

2. I would like the factual numbers and related information (links to stories) on open carriers being "shot first" by robbers and other "bad guys" because they were seen to be armed.

Click to expand...

See previous response.

marionmedic said:

Yes, these are subjects that are used by CC people to beat us about the head and demonize OC.
Yes, I want to have FACTS to refute their lies.

Please help me find these answers.

Thanks in advance.....

Click to expand...

The "facts" are that if them make those claims, it is up to them to provide those numbers that might support those claims. Simply tell them that without statistical data that supports those contentions, they are simply not valid.

From my exp with CC people when discussing OC a Majority of them dont care what number you put up, they will always find those "possible" issues.

Some of the CC people I have chatted with even made some of the Anti Gun crowd seem mellow. The scream how stupid OC is, that anyone could grab your gun, and even if you tell them to show a case, they come back with the "So what if it didn't Happen it could" and "You give real gun carriers a bad name" and my Favorite "its stupid and you are just looking for attention"

Sure a few may listen to you and nod when you give them this info, but from my exp there is a low number of those people.

PistolPackingPagan said:

From my exp with CC people when discussing OC a Majority of them dont care what number you put up, they will always find those "possible" issues.

Some of the CC people I have chatted with even made some of the Anti Gun crowd seem mellow. The scream how stupid OC is, that anyone could grab your gun, and even if you tell them to show a case, they come back with the "So what if it didn't Happen it could" and "You give real gun carriers a bad name" and my Favorite "its stupid and you are just looking for attention"

Sure a few may listen to you and nod when you give them this info, but from my exp there is a low number of those people.

Click to expand...

Grapeshot handles the "it could" answer (or the possibility that it HAS happened, and we just don't know) by pointing out that even if there are a few cases out there, the percentage of time that it happens is so tiny as to not be a significant enough risk to make that downside of OC not worth the upside.

Now, others may disagree. They may see the risk of OC not being worth the benefit. But that is what Liberty is. That is what the pursuit of Happiness is: The freedom to make our own risk/benefit analyses and to make our own decisions based on those analyses and our unique values.

marionmedic said:

I need FACTS on a couple of the "assertions" I keep reading and hearing.

Click to expand...

I think the following posting will be a good read for you:
The Open Carry Argument

marionmedic said:

Okay,

I need FACTS on a couple of the "assertions" I keep reading and hearing.

[snip]

Thanks in advance.....

Click to expand...

Ever hear the old saying, "You can't prove a negative?" Many others have tried to find incidents that support the proposition that OCers are targets and are at risk of having their guns snatched and being shot with them ... only to find no data that supports the statement.

As others have said, it's up to the person deriding OC to cite the facts supporting his/her opinion. Otherwise, it's just that -- (unfounded) opinion...

marionmedic said:

Okay,

I need FACTS on a couple of the "assertions" I keep reading and hearing.

1. I would like the factual numbers and related information (links to stories) on the "many cases" there have been where "open carry" resulted in the firearm being "snatched away" and used against the owner or another person.

Click to expand...

One cannot disprove the existence of something that does not exist. Put in this context, if there are no such cases, there is only a lack of evidence to support the assertion, not evidence which contradicts it.

2. I would like the factual numbers and related information (links to stories) on open carriers being "shot first" by robbers and other "bad guys" because they were seen to be armed.

Click to expand...

Same answer as my response to #1.

The Open Carry Argument sums up the advantages quite well

UglyGun said:

I think the following posting will be a good read for you:
The Open Carry Argument

Click to expand...

Thank you for the link to that essay. It was well done and worth reading.

UglyGun said:

I think the following posting will be a good read for you:
The Open Carry Argument

Click to expand...

Great read! thanks!

Well folks, I just KNOW for a fact that the presence of a cop car at a convenience store discourages robberies.
So I contend the presence of armed individuals would deter crime as well.

But I have to endure all the comments by CC "purists" who say the above and other silly things.
I was seeking numbers to give them.

Maybe it isn't as important as it seems.
?????

Thanks for replies.

marionmedic said:

Well folks, I just KNOW for a fact that the presence of a cop car at a convenience store discourages robberies.
So I contend the presence of armed individuals would deter crime as well.

But I have to endure all the comments by CC "purists" who say the above and other silly things.
I was seeking numbers to give them.

Maybe it isn't as important as it seems.
?????

Thanks for replies.

Click to expand...

It seems you have missed the point. It is difficult for you to find numbers that don't exist.

Try to find such numbers. Others have, and come up empty. Tell that to those who "cite" those myths, and challenge THEM to find these so-called "facts" since you have been unable to do so.

eye95 said:

I suspect he knows that.

The myths don't come up often enough and get refuted in other threads, so one had to be started dedicated just to them.

Click to expand...

NOPE.

Like I said, I wanted the information to "refute CC purists" who say we are "inviting trouble" and consider us kooks.

I hope that in time people here will find my use of words to be exactly what I mean.
With the exception of ONE post (the "i stopped robbery/rape") every post I make is straightforward and as honest as I can possibly be.
I expect that from others, so why would I not try to be the same way to them.

eye95 said:

I suspect he knows that.

The myths don't come up often enough and get refuted in other threads, so one had to be started dedicated just to them.

Click to expand...

marionmedic said:

NOPE.

Like I said, I wanted the information to "refute CC purists" who say we are "inviting trouble" and consider us kooks.

I hope that in time people here will find my use of words to be exactly what I mean.
With the exception of ONE post (the "i stopped robbery/rape") every post I make is straightforward and as honest as I can possibly be.
I expect that from others, so why would I not try to be the same way to them.

Click to expand...

Then you need to do some more reading on the site. The charge and its refutation has been posted numerous times.

And, no, you do not always say what you mean, as evidenced by your "prove me wrong" thread, which, IMO, is just so much silliness.

That being said, I did not say you did not say what you meant. I (wrongly) assumed that you had done a good bit of reading of this site and, therefore, knew that this issue had been raised and dispatched repeatedly. I will not again make the mistake of assuming that you have used this very site to inform yourself before posting.

Moving on.

I liked the respnses

Of telling them to prove it when CCers use those old tired arguments.

A bounty for the data...

Those worries are out there but in the day of this internet thingy, someone would have documented it somewhere. The searches have been done many times but the data search always comes up with "crickets". Can I imagine it happening, yeah, I can imagine getting hit by lightning, AGAIN too. It all falls back to logic: you cannot prove a negative, but absent that proof does not equal a positive.

Just finished a three week discussion on OC vs CC...

There is a CC segment of the Taurus Armed forum and I really stepped in it when someone asked "Why CC?" and I replied to the thread and expressed my favor for OC.

link to thread: http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=46000.0

It was my first experience with the Anti-OC mentality from people with guns of their own. I think I did pretty well, using very little sacasm and asking for facts. One guy actually did the legwork and drug up the guy in WI who lost his gun to a robber. After doing some reading on that instance, I am fairly sure that guy would have lost his gun even if he CCed it. The robber cased him close up with the "Hey buddy, got a cig?" line and a chat followed with the drawn handgun and request for another handgun to round out the robber's collection...

There were several people who are now taking a second look at OC because of the thread there and some who remain firmly within "the true faith of CC". Like I told them, I don't care how you carry, just carry. It's that whole Freedom thing we hear so much about...

So, in hindsight, it was worth the trouble and good to excercise what I have learned here and on the streets of Kennewick. Thanks OCDO!

:lease don't open that thread up again... I just got it put to sleep...:: :lol:

I've found that Open Carry is a visual deterrent.

On multiple occasions I've seen people calm down or avoid being an extreme a-hole because of seeing the firearm.

I watched a group of drunk individuals downtown being loud and obnoxious - My girlfriend and myself were walking to the downtown branch of her bank when they were coming our direction, yelling and what appeared to be "staring me down" with arms wildly flailing.

They then saw the firearm on my hip and abruptly they became quiet, arms at their sides as they hustled away like a bunch of rats scurrying from the water.

Not once did I touch the firearm, say anything, or instigate any actions. I just have seen folks appear to think twice when they notice the firearm.

Whether they incorrectly assume I'm a LEO (I will never ever assert as such) or just didn't want to mess with an armed individual - who knows.

I've also noticed that while Open Carrying here in Idaho that folks ask questions. I've informed people of their rights within this state and gave them a quick in-and-out of what's okay or not. The more people are educated, the less issues people will run into it.

I've never had a single issue since July 2010 of open carrying every day. Not one police call, not one confrontation. I don't see any panic or people freaking out. I do notice glances here and there - which is exactly why I present myself in a friendly manner.

When people start to realize you aren't a bad guy, they loosen up a lot. It pushes a better image of Open Carry and it becomes more and more accepted.