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Thread: Classrooms and Dormitories

  1. #1
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Classrooms and Dormitories

    If colleges are exempt from the Michigan preemption law and can have their own firearm laws why make these pistol free zones? The college can make them pistol free zones or allow people to carry guns there. Maybe I'm missing something....probably.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    If colleges are exempt from the Michigan preemption law and can have their own firearm laws why make these pistol free zones? The college can make them pistol free zones or allow people to carry guns there. Maybe I'm missing something....probably.
    The state made a law that you can not carry concealed in a classroom or dormitory. This is regardless of what any ordinance a college may enact. So even if a college allowed weapons on their campus no one could CC in those two places because of the state law.

    I believe Hillsdale college allows people to carry on their campus, but state law states not in dorms or classrooms.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    In MCL 28.425o, the fact that the state listed dorms and classrooms as places where a cpl holder can't carry a concealed pistol would be a strong argument in any legal case that the state has preempted the ability of state colleges/universities to regulate firearms. Even though the preemption law (MCL 123.1101) only lists cities, villages, townships, or counties, there are other ways that state law can be considered to preempt local regulation above what is explicitly listed in MCL 123.1101.

    (see section below)

    MCRGO vs. The City of Ferndale

    In Llewellyn, supra at 323-325, our Supreme Court set forth four guidelines:

    First, where the state law expressly provides that the state's authority to
    regulate in a specified area of the law is to be exclusive, there is no doubt that
    municipal regulation is pre-empted. (ie The Preemption Law, MCL 123.1101)

    Second, pre-emption of a field of regulation may be implied upon an
    examination of legislative history.

    Third, the pervasiveness of the state regulatory scheme may support a
    finding of pre-emption. While the pervasiveness of the state regulatory scheme is
    not generally sufficient by itself to infer pre-emption, it is a factor which should
    be considered as evidence of pre-emption.

    Fourth, the nature of the regulated subject matter may demand exclusive
    state regulation to achieve the uniformity necessary to serve the state's purpose or
    interest.

    As to this last point, examination of relevant Michigan cases indicates that
    where the nature of the regulated subject matter calls for regulation adapted to
    local conditions, and the local regulation does not interfere with the state
    regulatory scheme, supplementary local regulation has generally been upheld.

    However, where the Court has found that the nature of the subject matter
    regulated called for a uniform state regulatory scheme, supplementary local
    regulation has been held pre-empted. [Llewellyn, supra at 323-325 (citations
    omitted).


    The first guideline covers the situation for those entities listed in the preemption law. The remaining guidelines for preemption COULD be use to support the notion that state universities/colleges have had their firearm regulation preempted.

    For a better understanding, please see the dicta of the court at
    http://coa.courts.mi.gov/documents/o...37.opn.coa.pdf

    Also, although state universities have been given broad control over their campuses, there have been laws which have been found to apply to these schools. Here is AG Opinion 6646 regarding a similar situation:

    "Does the State Fire Marshal have the authority to require state-supported colleges and universities to submit school construction plans for new construction, remodeling, or addition for review and approval by the State Fire Marshal? Are they required to submit to on-site inspection of these projects?"'

    Const 1963, art 8, Secs. 5 and 6, provide that the governing board of a baccalaureate degree granting institution of the state shall have general supervision of its institution and the control and direction over all expenditures from the institution's funds. This constitutional status of baccalaureate degree granting institutions limits the ability of the Legislature to enact legislation which interferes with the operation and allocation of funds of such state institutions. Weinberg v Regents of University of Michigan, 97 Mich 246; 56 NW 605 (1893); Sterling v Regents of University of Michigan, 110 Mich 369; 68 NW 253 (1896); Wm C Reichenbach Co v Michigan, 94 Mich App 323; 288 NW2d 622 (1979).

    Nevertheless, state colleges and universities remain a part of state government and cannot use their autonomy to thwart clearly established public policy of the state. Regents of the University of Michigan v Michigan, 166 Mich App 314, 325-328; 419 NW2d 773 (1988). Accordingly, they have been held subject to legislation enacted pursuant to the state's police power to promote the health, safety and welfare of the people. Peters v Michigan State College, 320 Mich 243; 30 NW2d 854 (1948); Branum v Board of Regents of the University of Michigan, 5 Mich App 134; 145 NW2d 860 (1966); Regents of the University of Michigan v Employment Relations Commission, 389 Mich 96; 204 NW2d 218 (1973); OAG, 1975-1976, No 3662, p 708 (December 15, 1976); OAG, 1977-1978, No 5326, p 515 (July 5, 1978).


    see: http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/da...0s/op06646.htm
    Last edited by DrTodd; 02-04-2011 at 11:04 AM.
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  4. #4
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I believe Hillsdale college allows people to carry on their campus, but state law states not in dorms or classrooms.[/QUOTE]

    My understand is Hillsdale allows the guns in the classrooms and dorms. I may be wrong but that's what I have been told.

  5. #5
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    I believe Hillsdale college allows people to carry on their campus, but state law states not in dorms or classrooms.
    My understand is Hillsdale allows the guns in the classrooms and dorms. I may be wrong but that's what I have been told.[/QUOTE]

    Maybe because they are a private college and can grant permission to people on their property.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  6. #6
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I should just go to school in Utah at 21 they'll let me carry to class haha

  7. #7
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Colleges can only make ordinances. Read, "misdemeanors".
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator;1460778\[/QUOTE
    Maybe because they are a private college and can grant permission to people on their property.
    They can't give you permission to conceal though, that would violate 425o.

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Maybe because they are a private college and can grant permission to people on their property.
    They can't give you permission to conceal though, that would violate 425o.[/QUOTE]

    They can with a CPL.

    Can you allow someone in your house or property to conceal without a CPL? My answer would be no based on state law. But it could be challenged.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  10. #10
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    They can't give you permission to conceal though, that would violate 425o.
    They can with a CPL.

    Can you allow someone in your house or property to conceal without a CPL? My answer would be no based on state law. But it could be challenged.[/QUOTE]

    In Michigan you legally could not allow someone on your property to carry concealed without a permit. Hopefully with the passing of this new law we can get the preemption changed to include colleges. My college says under student right that I am guaranteed the rights given to me by the constitution of the united states, michigan and the laws in michigan, however, they allow no guns on campus period. If you're a commuter reguardless of permit you may not keep your gun in your car if you are parked on campus. I think that policy would violate my student rights but not really worth fighting I don't see myself winning any battles there or getting unwanted attention.

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    TN College Campus Shooting

    Just saw on the news that there was another shooting on a college campus in Tennessee that BANS Firearms on their campus. Don't know if the gun was registered or if the shooter had a license/permit. TN bans carry of any kind on school property and college campuses even with a permit. Who thinks the shooter cared that he was breaking the rules?

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mckaloz1 View Post
    Just saw on the news that there was another shooting on a college campus in Tennessee that BANS Firearms on their campus. Don't know if the gun was registered or if the shooter had a license/permit. TN bans carry of any kind on school property and college campuses even with a permit. Who thinks the shooter cared that he was breaking the rules?
    I think someone should have told him.

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    Somebody has told him by now.springerdave.

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    A permit won't stop them either? Oh crap!

  15. #15
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    A permit won't stop them either? Oh crap!
    If only there was somebody..... kind of like a cop that would carry a gun but not a cop just a regular responsible that could help stop mass shooters or just your everyday crazy person. But as we all know police are the only people should be allowed to have and carry guns.

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