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Thread: OC question

  1. #1
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    OC question

    normally I carry concealed, but my utah permit is no longer recognized here. I currently only have a crossbreed super tuck iwb holster. If I tuck my shirt in behind it so that the grip and rear sights are fully visible, will I be ok as far as nevada open carry laws? or is that still considered concealed?

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    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    I've never gotten a clear answer on this. I would not want to be the test case. you can get OWB holsters of some sort for very little coin; I suggest doing that instead of being some assistant prosecutor's;


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    Thanks. Another question... Can I conceal without a permit on my dad's private property? I'm down here to help him clean out his garage so I'll be in the open garage and the front yard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8erord View Post
    Thanks. Another question... Can I conceal without a permit on my dad's private property? I'm down here to help him clean out his garage so I'll be in the open garage and the front yard.

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    No, there is not provision of Nevada Law that allows anyone without a permit to conceal a firearm on their person even if they are on their own private property. Technically, I could be in my living room with the doors locked and if my **** is over my pistol I would be guilty of a felony.

    Under no circumstance can I advise anyone to conceal a firearm on their person who does not possess a valid CCW.

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    Just goes to show the differences in the state laws and the need to do your homework. In Utah, it's my understanding that you can concealed carry at your place of residence or on any private property (including business) with the owner's permission. You can also conceal however you want in your vehicle - it's considered an extension of your home. However, you cannot LOC w/out a CFP. Go figure, lol.

    Guess I need to breakdown and get my Nevada CCW and/or find a good retention holster for my FNX-9.

  6. #6
    28kfps
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    No, there is not provision of Nevada Law that allows anyone without a permit to conceal a firearm on their person even if they are on their own private property. Technically, I could be in my living room with the doors locked and if my **** is over my pistol I would be guilty of a felony.

    Under no circumstance can I advise anyone to conceal a firearm on their person who does not possess a valid CCW.
    Nevada carrier I guess I have been blind to this figuring if one is legal to have a firearm they could carry in whatever manner they want to while on private property they own or invited to. Not that it is much of an issue for me however stops me from giving out incorrect information. You say there is no provision of Nevada Law that allows it. Would I be correct in say there is no provision of Nevada Law that allows open carry and as we all know, we are allowed to open carry. I suppose there is some confusing legal statement that would explain the difference. However as I think of the possible situations if I was in a business being a privately own property and a LEO spotted my concealed firearm printing through my shirt not having a currant CCW at that time probably would end up in a really bad rest of the day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8erord View Post
    normally I carry concealed, but my utah permit is no longer recognized here. I currently only have a crossbreed super tuck iwb holster. If I tuck my shirt in behind it so that the grip and rear sights are fully visible, will I be ok as far as nevada open carry laws? or is that still considered concealed?

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    =======================================
    IANAL

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-2...#NRS202Sec3653
    NRS 202.3653 Definitions. As used in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, unless the context otherwise requires:

    1. “Concealed firearm” means a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver or other firearm which is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.

    ==================================================

    "discernible by ordinary observation." is the operable phrase. You are subject to how this will be interpruted.
    ==================================================

    Ken
    Last edited by CowboyKen; 02-04-2011 at 05:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    Nevada carrier I guess I have been blind to this figuring if one is legal to have a firearm they could carry in whatever manner they want to while on private property they own or invited to. Not that it is much of an issue for me however stops me from giving out incorrect information. You say there is no provision of Nevada Law that allows it. Would I be correct in say there is no provision of Nevada Law that allows open carry and as we all know, we are allowed to open carry. I suppose there is some confusing legal statement that would explain the difference. However as I think of the possible situations if I was in a business being a privately own property and a LEO spotted my concealed firearm printing through my shirt not having a currant CCW at that time probably would end up in a really bad rest of the day.
    =================================
    IANAL

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-2...l#NRS202Sec253
    NRS 202.350 Manufacture, importation, possession or use of dangerous weapon or silencer; carrying concealed weapon without permit; penalties; issuance of permit to carry concealed weapon; exceptions.

    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section and NRS 202.355 and 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, a person within this State shall not: ...

    (d) Carry concealed upon his or her person any:

    (1) Explosive substance, other than ammunition or any components thereof;

    (2) Dirk, dagger or machete;

    (3) Pistol, revolver or other firearm, or other dangerous or deadly weapon; or

    (4) Knife which is made an integral part of a belt buckle.

    ==================================

    As far as I can determine there is NO exception to this that specifies doing so on your own, or others, private property, so it would seem to be a felony to do so. Again, IANAL and I do not pretend to offer legal advice.

    Ken

  9. #9
    28kfps
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyKen View Post
    =================================
    IANAL

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-2...l#NRS202Sec253
    NRS 202.350 Manufacture, importation, possession or use of dangerous weapon or silencer; carrying concealed weapon without permit; penalties; issuance of permit to carry concealed weapon; exceptions.

    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section and NRS 202.355 and 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, a person within this State shall not: ...

    (d) Carry concealed upon his or her person any:

    (1) Explosive substance, other than ammunition or any components thereof;

    (2) Dirk, dagger or machete;

    (3) Pistol, revolver or other firearm, or other dangerous or deadly weapon; or

    (4) Knife which is made an integral part of a belt buckle.

    ==================================

    As far as I can determine there is NO exception to this that specifies doing so on your own, or others, private property, so it would seem to be a felony to do so. Again, IANAL and I do not pretend to offer legal advice.

    Ken
    Thanks for the input. It is making some since to me. We have laws to regulate conceal carry and no laws for the most part regulating open carry.

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    Yeah, Utah specifically lists where you cannot carry. If it's not on the list, it's fair game.

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    Exactly what cowboy ken said. By law it is illegal to carry a concealed firearm without a permit, and no exception is given for being on private property therefore it is illegal regardless.

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    Ironically, you cannot carry concealed on your own property, but as long as you are at home and possess the gun only for self defense, you can be drunk, high on meth, or tripping on mushrooms and committing no gun crime (NRS 202.257).

    Ahh yes, more gun law stupidity.

  13. #13
    28kfps
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    Quote Originally Posted by timf343 View Post
    Ironically, you cannot carry concealed on your own property, but as long as you are at home and possess the gun only for self defense, you can be drunk, high on meth, or tripping on mushrooms and committing no gun crime (NRS 202.257).

    Ahh yes, more gun law stupidity.
    Wow, Tim this is good news. I will be visiting my local street corner unlicensed pharmacist.

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    Before you rush out, it *is* still a violation of federal law to be in possession of firearm while under the influence of a controlled substance. I think technically this even means prescription drugs from a licensed pharmacy, so more to think about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    No, there is not provision of Nevada Law that allows anyone without a permit to conceal a firearm on their person even if they are on their own private property. Technically, I could be in my living room with the doors locked and if my **** is over my pistol I would be guilty of a felony.

    Under no circumstance can I advise anyone to conceal a firearm on their person who does not possess a valid CCW.
    But then again, there is nothing in NV law that prohibits someone from carrying concealed on their property...the law tells us what we can't do...not what we can do....on private property. That is a big difference

  16. #16
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    SIGguy-

    CowboyKen posted the relevant code above. NRS 202.350 does prohibit one from carrying concealed without a permit. It makes no difference in the letter of that law whether you are on your own property or not.

    Tim

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    Quote Originally Posted by timf343 View Post
    Before you rush out, it *is* still a violation of federal law to be in possession of firearm while under the influence of a controlled substance. I think technically this even means prescription drugs from a licensed pharmacy, so more to think about.
    No. It is only a violation of federal law to possess a firearm if the person "is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance[.]" 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(3).

    The phrase "unlawful user" has been interpreted to require a pattern of recent unlawful drug usage, and not merely a single incident or past drug usage far removed in time. See U.S. v. Purdy, 264 F.3d 809, 812-13 (9th Cir. 2001) ("to sustain a conviction under [18 U.S.C.] 922(g)(3), the government must prove . . . that the defendant took drugs with regularity, over an extended period of time, and contemporaneously with his purchase or possession of a firearm"); see also U.S. v. Augustin, 376 F.3d 135, 138-39 (3d Cir. 2004) (holding that "one must be an unlawful user at or about the time he or she possessed the firearm and that to be an unlawful user, one needed to have engaged in regular use over a period of time proximate to or contemporaneous with the possession of the firearm" and reversing conviction where defendant possessed firearm six hours after unlawfully using drugs where there was no evidence of any prior or subsequent illegal drug use); U.S. v. Turnbull, 349 F.3d 558, 562 (8th Cir. 2003) (recognizing the need for a “temporal nexus between regular drug use and . . . possession of firearms” to support a conviction under 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(3)); U.S. v. Jackson, 280 F.3d 403, 406 (4th Cir. 2002) (affirming conviction under plain language of statute where defendant "admitted to smoking marijuana twice a day for many years" and was smoking marijuana at the time of a traffic stop where defendant possessed a firearm; agreeing that "the prosecution must establish 'a pattern of use and recency of use'").

    However, “18 U.S.C. 922(g)(3) does not require proof of contemporaneous use of a controlled substance and possession of a firearm.” U.S. v. Mack, 343 F.3d 929, 933 (8th Cir. 2003); see also U.S. v. Roberge, 565 F.3d 1005, 1010 (6th Cir. 2009). In other words, “the government does not need to prove that the defendant was actually using . . . drugs at the exact moment that he purchased the firearms in question in order to be convicted as an ‘unlawful user.’ ” U.S. v. McIntosh, 23 F.3d 1454, 1458 (8th Cir.1994).
    Last edited by JimMullinsWVCDL; 02-06-2011 at 02:47 AM.
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    even though it is unlikely that you would get arrested for concealed carry on private property-I wouldn't risk it.
    play it safe : OC until you have your non resident ccw

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    Quote Originally Posted by WVCDL View Post
    No. It is only a violation of federal law to possess a firearm if the person "is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance[.]"
    Ahh, thanks for the cite! It was the "addicted" part that I forgot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    But then again, there is nothing in NV law that prohibits someone from carrying concealed on their property...the law tells us what we can't do...not what we can do....on private property. That is a big difference
    You seem to miss the point. The law is written to outlaw concealed weapons. The law does not decriminalize this where someone is on their own private property.

    If a person is on private property though, someone would likely need permission to make any determination that a weapon is concealed.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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