XD, M&P, 24/7, SR-9 or other?

rotorhead · Feb 12, 2011

Wow!

After seeing those I went and checked every round I had (12 boxes worth) and none of them look anything like that. All of mine are pristine compared to those. Looks like you got a bad batch, which is something I've never seen with that particular round.

I don't have Winchester's contact info handy but I'd definitely pursue the matter and let them know about it. It's quite possible that they may have an issue in there QC department.

Another possibility is that those are reloads from an outside source and resold in the same packaging without Winchester's knowledge. Where did you get them? It would be easier for someone to do something like that and sell them at places like gun shows compared to buying them from a reputable gun shop.

BlueFireIce · Feb 12, 2011

Walmart, I picked up 3 boxes along with another 400 rounds of their white box stuff. I have shot the white box stuff allot (all clean, good shape), as well as their ammo in all kind of other guns without problem, which is why this really surprised me. I did some searching on Google for "dirty primer PDX1" and found a few other posts, but nothing with the kind of deformation on the case like in the last photo.

Guess I will give Winchester guns a call and see if they have Winchester ammo contact info.

And just in case anyone else shoots this...

rotorhead · Feb 12, 2011

Was it all one box or spread out over many boxes?

I took some to the range today and fired a few off with no problem. But, they didn't look anything like what you had. If you got them from Walmart then it's not a reload issue I wouldn't think.

Let us know what Winchester says about it.

BlueFireIce · Feb 12, 2011

All 3 boxes had the dirty ammo, and it was the center box in the photo, that had the one with the deformed case. And with the case from the one box in such bad shape, I am iffy on shooting any of the other rounds. I will wait until I hear back from Winchester and see if they will make this right first.

j4l · Feb 26, 2011

Nice choices on the pistols-even if 9mm.
Scary, on the ammo. It looks almost as if the rounds got sprayed or spilled-on, by some kind of chemical or solvent,perhaps? Cant imagine what deformed that case in that way...2 different lots/batches too...not a good sign, I'd think..

BlueFireIce · Feb 26, 2011

j4l said:
Nice choices on the pistols-even if 9mm.
Scary, on the ammo. It looks almost as if the rounds got sprayed or spilled-on, by some kind of chemical or solvent,perhaps? Cant imagine what deformed that case in that way...2 different lots/batches too...not a good sign, I'd think..

To me, it looks like a seating problem, as if when the bullet went in it was caught on the side of the case and pulled it down, as the metal of the case is "pulled".

oldbanger · Feb 26, 2011

Hello BlueFireIce

Are you using the 9mm LUGER +P at the range ? that seems an expensive round!

FMJ 115g I bought a bunch of these at Cabela's for under $10 + tax a box.

I really like them.

BlueFireIce · Feb 26, 2011

No, these were meant to be a carry round. Range round is white box Win. 18 bucks a box (100) local.

since9 · Feb 27, 2011

BlueFireIce said:
For a "premium" round, I expected better QC.

Looks like you bought some knock-offs. Examine the lettering, paying close attention to the length of the U in Luger, as well as the spacing between the letters in WIN.

Also note the machined flattening in on the inside of the hallow-point in the second image. See the differences? Yours aren't quite right.

j4l · Feb 27, 2011

dang. so what are we seeing here? a potential for Chinese counterfeit ammo out there?

BlueFireIce · Feb 27, 2011

j4l said:
dang. so what are we seeing here? a potential for Chinese counterfeit ammo out there?

I would like to know this as well, because that is about what his post suggests. So, if you have any more information on this or anything to back it up, I would be more than happy to read it.

rotorhead · Feb 28, 2011

Wow, good eye.

I took another look at mine and of course it's different due to them being .40 cal.

On mine, the word "Winchester" is spelled out across the top and "40 S&W" is on the bottom. They have the machined flattening, though. I guess they are legit but will have to do some looking around after work tonight for comparison.

DevinWKuska · Mar 1, 2011

Thats some scary s*** man! I mean the white box is what I would have suspect to be bad but not their "Premium" stuff. I have had an issue with Winchester white box ammo turning squibs with consistency. By that I mean primer ignition failure or lack of powder(bullet moves about 1inch into barrel and thats it. I would take some good pics and send them to Winchester and to your local favorite gunstore(gotta warn other peeps). Good deal on the guns btw. I see you got a Taurus. let me know what you think of it. I never had an issue with my taurus and had it for 10+ years. I think some people just have poor luck with Taurus.

rotorhead · Mar 1, 2011

Any updates or have you heard anything from Winchester yet?

BlueFireIce · Mar 2, 2011

DevinWKuska said:
Thats some scary s*** man! I mean the white box is what I would have suspect to be bad but not their "Premium" stuff. I have had an issue with Winchester white box ammo turning squibs with consistency. By that I mean primer ignition failure or lack of powder(bullet moves about 1inch into barrel and thats it. I would take some good pics and send them to Winchester and to your local favorite gunstore(gotta warn other peeps). Good deal on the guns btw. I see you got a Taurus. let me know what you think of it. I never had an issue with my taurus and had it for 10+ years. I think some people just have poor luck with Taurus.

Yes, it is scary. The Taurus is going along just fine, shoots far better than I thought it would, and it's better a gun than I am a shooter. Around 1,200+ rounds through it and only one stove pipe with the white box stuff, and that was about 400 rounds into a shooting session.

rotorhead said:
Any updates or have you heard anything from Winchester yet?

Nothing, can't even get a hold of them, their contact page is showing a 404 error (for weeks now), I ended up finding the phone number listed on one of the menu bots from Winchester guns, called the number, ran through allot of menus to try and talk to someone, each time it rings and goes right to a voice mail. I thought maybe busy or something, so I call back over and over, and a few of the other menu options just in case something was up with the tech line I was trying to talk to. All lead to voice mail, I have called once a day since I found this about the ammo and got their number, never had a call back and always voice mail, my guess is they don't have a live support at all, which seals the deal of me finding another ammo brand to shoot. Protection and target. And as far as I can find, they have no e-mail contact, I did e-mail Winchester guns about the problem with their ammo site and if they could forward the info along and maybe supply me with contact or e-mail for customer service for the ammo side....Been 2 weeks now with no reply from that either.

rotorhead · Mar 2, 2011

Well that blows. I didn't mean for you to go through all of this when I suggested that round for you. If that's how they are then it'll be easy to find another company that produces a similar product with much less heartburn.

BlueFireIce · Mar 2, 2011

rotorhead said:
Well that blows. I didn't mean for you to go through all of this when I suggested that round for you. If that's how they are then it'll be easy to find another company that produces a similar product with much less heartburn.

The round I planned on using anyway, as the reviews I had seen were quite good, and it was sold local, so it all matched up. Sadly, something was wrong with the boxes I got, what happened with them is not clear, and I will be leaving one more voice mail with them and see if I hear back, if nothing else I want to make them aware something is wrong.

golddigger14s · Mar 3, 2011

Hornado

BlueFireIce said:
Oh, I do, it's the same with rifle rounds or home defense shotshells, everyone knows the ones they use are the "best". Sadly, the ONLY option is seems for me are the PDX1 rounds, as far as premium rounds go, that's about all I see local that's not 40 bucks for 20 rounds. For me, I hold that most of the premium jacketed hollow points are "close enough" I am sure there is a "best" out there, but I doubt if you asked the bad guy which one was which after you shot him he would not be able to tell you. For me, I am looking for a round that will function reliability in the gun. So far though, the gun shows no signs of being picky.

I will also check the targets out at walmart, though most of my hunting supplies are bought online (other than ammo).

For personal defence I have Hornady Critical Defense for my 24/7. $20 for 25

REALteach4u · Mar 8, 2011

BlueFireIce said:
Ok, so, kinda new here (howdy), and I am looking to pick up my first carry gun, I have looked around a bit, read allot online and on the forums and the guns listed in the title seem to be the ones that have stood out. Today I went shopping around at some local stores to get a feel for the guns and felt a bit odd after reading some comments on this or that one being "bulky", as I found none of them to be such. However, that might have to do with my size, as I am a bit "bulky" also at 6'4" and about 230, with a hand span of 9.5".

Out of the 3 I had the chance to handle, the 24/7 and the XD felt best in my hands, the M&P I didn't really like the feel, as part of the grip contacted the bone in my thumb in an odd way, nothing bad mind you, but I am a shooter and this gun will see allot of rounds, which had me thinking that after a few clips it might start to get uncomfortable. I did not have the chance to find a SR-9 local, and will be heading back out Monday to hunt one down. And no, sadly I do not have access to be able to fire any of these, so hand fit is about all I get to go off of.

Thoughts on these guns for a first time carry? Or any other suggestions? Over all, I liked these because they are in the 3-400ish range, though if need be I would be willing to stretch to 500ish, if the gun was worth the extra. Also, since I do plan on shooting this gun allot, I would like to have it chambered in 9mm for ammo costs.

The 24/7 was very tempting, from some of the sales I have seen online (270 shipped), but have heard mixed feelings about it.

Use caution when buying Taurus. I'm a Taurus hater, after my experience with them you would be too. But I'll always tell someone that if they get a good one, it's worth keeping, so much so that I've recently purchased two of their Tracker 22's after inspecting them carefully.

Look the 24/7 over very carefully. I've had several students that have had these and as long as it fits the hands and shoots where it's supposed to they're good little guns.

Did you try the different backstraps for the M&P? Changing them can make a big difference.

Several of my students have had good things to say about the SR-9 as well. I've personally owned the XD's, the M&P's, and one of the Taurus PT line. Each will feel and shoot very differently.

As usual, if you can get a chance to shoot them before you buy them that's what you should do. An informed buyer is a wise buyer, usually.

thebigsd · Mar 9, 2011

The XD45 was my first handgun (have 15 now) and I still carry it on a regular basis. It is absolutely comfortable to shoot and it's hard to beat the magazine capacity.

XD, M&P, 24/7, SR-9 or other?

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