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Thread: What cause crime?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    What cause crime?

    We all know the old saying "more guns, less crime", and I think mot folks on this forum probably believe Dr. Lott's theories on this matter.

    But what about the converse of this?

    I posit that there is a DIRECT causation between th esize of LE organizations and crime rates--"More Cops, More Crime"...

    And apparently, the Baltimore Sun newspaper backs this theory up with a recent story:

    http://www.wbaltv.com/baltimore-city...03/detail.html

    Not "cop bashing", just pointing out an interesting set of statistics...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    How would increasing the number of police increase the amount of crime? Correlation does not necessarily indicate causation.

    I blame the government for the creation of crime, but by a different mechanism. The government increases crime by creating laws that create highly profitable black markets. They give criminal gangs a monopoly on such industries.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 02-06-2011 at 03:43 PM.

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    Sometimes police create a crime in which there never was one to begin with. Disorderly conduct, resisting arresting, peace disturbances may never even happen to otherwise lawful abiding citizens until police interject their presence and authority into those people's personal business. There are also incidences of police intentionally or unintentionally misunderstanding a situation or even fabricating one to suit some other agenda. As far as more police making more contacts with people, stopping, searching, questioning and investigating people, its more than likely going to intially show a rise in the statistical numbers of crimes being reported as well.

    I agree that our government is responsible in a big time way of manufacturing crime. The more things we outlaw, the more potential we have made for crimes to be commited. Victimless crimes are a great example of this. We could cut down massively on the amount of crime just by redefining what crime actually is. Why should a person who wants to sell sex with their body for a monetary price be subject to arrest, confinement, prosecution and then further punishment? Same thing for those who wish to partake in recreationally using drugs that are currently illegal. Same thing for certain restrictions on possessing and carrying weapons. For example, I know two people close to me who are very friendly and very good citizens who illegally carry concealed without permits for their own protection. Under our current state laws, they are commiting crimes.

    I also strongly believe that the last thing organized law enforement wants to see is a reduction in crime. Less crime means less dependance upon them, less need for their numbers which also brings less intrusion and ultimately less power. On the individual level, I believe many officers would prefer to see less crime but as an institution, most definitely not. If so, you wouldn't see them standing in the way almost everytime there is talk or legislation aimed at legalizing certain things such as marijuana use, carrying firearms and prostitution. They also tend to resist changes that would result in further protecting citizens from the authority they wield over us as well. They want more leeway in pulling us over, demanding us to identify ourselves, gaining access into our pockets, our gloveboxes and our homes.
    Last edited by MK; 02-06-2011 at 04:50 PM.

  4. #4
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    Here's one where a cop lied to create a crime where none existed. Its not exactly on-point, but it has a rather shocking connection to 2A advocacy.

    Excerpt:

    A reader sends a link to this National Rifle Association profile of Jeff Overcash, who is listed as an NRA “curriculum developer” and certified law enforcement instructor.
    Jeff is a 10 year law enforcement veteran who has honorably served with both the Charleston, SC and Ft. Lauderdale, FL Police Departments. While with the City of Charleston, Jeff served as a Field Training Officer, Narcotics Investigator, and SWAT Officer. After relocating to South Florida, Jeff served with the City of Ft. Lauderdale Police Department where he was assigned to the Patrol Division as well as their SWAT Team.
    If you read this site regularly, Overcash’s name may ring a bell. Last year,he resigned from the Ft. Lauderdale police department after a a cell phone video showed he illegally arrested Brennan Hamilton shortly after Hamilton asked for Overcash’s badge number. The two had gotten into an argument after Overcash reprimanded Hamilton for leaning on his squad car, after which Hamilton rolled his eyes at Overcash. Overcash then falsely claimed in his police report that Hamilton was intoxicated and had resisted arrest...

    http://www.theagitator.com/ Radley Balko, the blogger, is a senior editor at Reason and former member of the Cato Institute. This is a great little freedom-minded blog.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    ...Correlation does not necessarily indicate causation...
    Exactly. Many assume it does. Such thinking is uninformed and/or lazy.

    If A and B are highly correlated, there are at least four possibilities:
    1. An increase in A causes an increase in B.
    2. An increase in B causes an increase in A.
    3. An increase in C (not studied) causes increases in both A and B.
    4. There is one helluva coincidence going on.

    To determine causation, one must look beyond the numbers, for the mechanics of the causation.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    How would increasing the number of police increase the amount of crime? Correlation does not necessarily indicate causation.

    I blame the government for the creation of crime, but by a different mechanism. The government increases crime by creating laws that create highly profitable black markets. They give criminal gangs a monopoly on such industries.
    I agree completely.

    Consider, however, that the apparent correlation between many police and much crime makes sense in consideration of your point. More laws covering harmless behavior requires more cops, which means more police lobbying, and police always lobby for more laws, since more laws require more cops, which means...
    Last edited by marshaul; 02-07-2011 at 05:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    More cops can only lead to more crimes committed by cops. A statistical fact.
    More dentists can only lead to more crimes committed by dentists. Heck, more dentists can only lead to more TV-viewing by dentists.

    Yeah, so? Useless statements, all three.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    More dentists can only lead to more crimes committed by dentists. Heck, more dentists can only lead to more TV-viewing by dentists.

    Yeah, so? Useless statements, all three.
    While true dentists are not analogous to police since police have the power to arrest (or not) and a powerful union influencing elected officials decisions in this area.

    And it works both ways. Police may under report some types of crime to justify a previous political initiative while simultaneously being over aggressive in "detecting" other types via suspiciousness stops / profiling. Again, politically driven behavior to justify the next build up of police staff, equipment, or tactics.

    The larger police presence may also coincide with a greater case of nanny-statism at the local level. A wide ranging condition which may breed a higher percentage of willing victims.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim675 View Post
    ...
    The point remains that the statement was useless. Just another way to mindlessly LEO-bash.

  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The point remains that the statement was useless. Just another way to mindlessly LEO-bash.
    Not true.

    Any increase in government and government "authority" will always lead to an abuse by said government and the greatest crime of all encroachment on our freedom. This of course includes the field of law enforcement. Especially since they are now largely the strong arm of political powers.

    We can choose not to deal with shady dentists.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
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    Your question was "What Causes Crime?"

    The answer is simple.

    Bad parenting.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravedigger View Post
    Your question was "What Causes Crime?"

    The answer is simple.

    Bad parenting.
    Perhaps there are other proximate causes? Ones which might reasonably be addressed by government?

    Like the existence of prohibition?

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