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Thread: The "Finger on the trigger" controversy

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    The "Finger on the trigger" controversy


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    I understand the philosophy behind their trigger method and agree with it in a combat situation, however, I think it's a bit of a reach to get people to agree on it's safety and begin training it appropriately. I've seen that guy do some firearms handling before and he seems to really know his stuff.

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    If I get an AK, I may come back and watch the video.

    In the first few moments after the introductory images, the view shifted unnecessarily four times from front view of him to oblique view from his left and back. From an instructional point of view, I see no value in shifting the viewing angle around while the student is trying to study elements of the image.

    His wobbling left and right like his feet were hot didn't help, either.

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    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    I guess the situation would dictate finger placement but I've always followed the rule "Keep the booger hook off the bang button until you are ready to make holes."
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    Regular Member usamarshal's Avatar
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    Guy knows his stuff...I'll have to keep that in mind next time I hit the range.

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    I'm positive you could train for it either way.

    Reason why I'm sure its ingrained in people today to keep your finner offa the trigger today, is that there are probably a lot of people out there, easily rattled, further limiting fine motor control skills.

    I'm not sure many people do have those skills to calmly have a finger on the trigger without pulling it while intense situations happen around them.

    Which is why its trained to keep your finger off it.

    If you have that capability and can train for it, do it I suppose.

    I'm a touch jumpy myself, and wont bother with it.

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    Regular Member frankd's Avatar
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    Pretty interesting stuff. I might have to give it a whirl the next time I hit the range.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    I'm positive you could train for it either way.

    Reason why I'm sure its ingrained in people today to keep your finner offa the trigger today, is that there are probably a lot of people out there, easily rattled, further limiting fine motor control skills.

    I'm not sure many people do have those skills to calmly have a finger on the trigger without pulling it while intense situations happen around them.

    Which is why its trained to keep your finger off it.

    If you have that capability and can train for it, do it I suppose.

    I'm a touch jumpy myself, and wont bother with it.
    These are my thoughts, nearly exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    I'm positive you could train for it either way.

    Reason why I'm sure its ingrained in people today to keep your finner offa the trigger today, is that there are probably a lot of people out there, easily rattled, further limiting fine motor control skills.

    I'm not sure many people do have those skills to calmly have a finger on the trigger without pulling it while intense situations happen around them.

    Which is why its trained to keep your finger off it.
    I don't think it's so much nerves or fine motor skills.

    From what reading I've done, it seems more a matter of tripping and falling, or fumbling the gun and triggering a shot, that sort of thing.

    I've read of several instances where police tripped and triggered a shot. Also at least once or twice where a cop squeezed the cuff on a suspect's wrist with one hand, and squeezed the fingers on his other hand, too, shooting the suspect.

    I don't think the Four Rules were developed so much for a fight as for ranges, hunting, and everyday gun handling at home.

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    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    I also think the finger off trigger teaching is more for accidental shots, from studies done over time etc. The closing or clenching of your fingers is an unconscious action or response. Under stress or dangerous situations, or as a reaction your body reflexes and flinches. It's typically uncontrollable in most cases but like most things could be controlled with specialized training. If there happens to be trigger behind your finger when a BG throws something at you and you raise your hands to deflect, there will be an accidental shot etc. It's really a simple cautionary discipline that should be learned for safety.
    Last edited by Motofixxer; 02-07-2011 at 01:01 AM.
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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I don't think it's so much nerves or fine motor skills.

    From what reading I've done, it seems more a matter of tripping and falling, or fumbling the gun and triggering a shot, that sort of thing.

    I've read of several instances where police tripped and triggered a shot. Also at least once or twice where a cop squeezed the cuff on a suspect's wrist with one hand, and squeezed the fingers on his other hand, too, shooting the suspect.

    I don't think the Four Rules were developed so much for a fight as for ranges, hunting, and everyday gun handling at home.
    Col. Grossman describes this in "On Combat". He explains that the basic levels of the nervous system, that show up under intense stress, tend to have a "symmetrical" reflex. A common example is a baby's startle reflex - both sides of the body jerk the same. If anyone is interested I can find the relevant paragraph tonight.

    For this reason and others, I keep my finger off the trigger unless I'm actually shooting. A "mistake" could be very bad.
    Last edited by 4angrybadgers; 02-08-2011 at 04:35 PM.

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    Very bad idea for most. If you're willing to spend the proper time training correctly and are in a combat situation by all means. Collateral damage is accepted on the battlefield. It's not generally accepted from an armed citizen.

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    Sonny's ideas are for the battlefield.

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    Sonny's ideas are for the battlefield.
    I don't know if that was in response to my comment or not.

    I'm fully aware this method is for the battlefield. My point is a couple of people talked about trying this out at the range. Please don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    I don't know if that was in response to my comment or not.

    I'm fully aware this method is for the battlefield. My point is a couple of people talked about trying this out at the range. Please don't.
    But in theory, you'd have to practice it somewhere, right? How would one adopt the proper muscle memory if they did in fact try to use this on the battlefield without any previous training in it?

  16. #16
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    You don't start practicing with live rounds. You practice at home dry over and over first.

    My thought is most people don't possess enough dedication to practice to the point where they can be pushed around "safely" with their finger on the trigger. My analogy is people who hit the gym once or twice a month vs. a bodybuilder. No disrespect meant to anyone on this board, they may have that kind of dedication, most people don't.
    Last edited by sharkey; 02-09-2011 at 11:18 PM.

  17. #17
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    I think I'll keep my finger off the trigger. If someone can get the drop on me in the split second it takes to move my finger from the trigger guard to the trigger, I'm in trouble.

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    I did it for one magazine and it just felt weird. I was able to keep positive force on the front of the trigger guard, but like I said...it just felt weird. I will continue to keep my finger off the trigger.
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  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    I'm all for what he says on techniques, from beginner to expert.

    The link is now in my video vault.
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    Laying my finger along the frame , above the trigger , has worked well for me for over 40 years. I see no reason to change now.

    Many times someone comes up with a new and improved method of gun handling , where no improvement is needed , just to make themselves seem important. I'm not trying to knock the mans gun skills. I just think its would be a disservice to the general public to try and teach this system for everyday carry. I can't say that I would like to see it used in combat situations either.

    I believe in the K. I. S. S. system. ( keep it simple stupid )

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    Quote Originally Posted by jayspapa View Post
    Laying my finger along the frame , above the trigger , has worked well for me for over 40 years. I see no reason to change now.

    Many times someone comes up with a new and improved method of gun handling , where no improvement is needed , just to make themselves seem important. I'm not trying to knock the mans gun skills. I just think its would be a disservice to the general public to try and teach this system for everyday carry. I can't say that I would like to see it used in combat situations either.

    I believe in the K. I. S. S. system. ( keep it simple stupid )
    Yaj. If you haven't shot anyone dead by keeping your finger on the trigger over the past forty years (count me in) it probably won't happen.

    If you're concerned about your lack of control over your trigger finger, by all means, hands off!
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  22. #22
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Finger on the trigger, thumb on the safety, cocked and locked until needed. Time to click off the safety--I'm talking 1911s of course, and pull the trigger when on target is virtually simultaneous. Not recommending it, just pointing out another tactical carry situation. I have carried my Hi-Power that way several times when I thought something bad may be coming my way. The safety on a HP is much smaller than those on the new models of the 1911, therefore more effort and time involved. DAs--finger on trigger is the only place I'd have it, unless SA cocked. Then, alongside the trigger guard. Striker fired 24/7 OSS I keep on DA. Long trigger pull, finger on trigger. Like anything else when it comes to firearms, use what you are most comfortable with and practice it to stay that way. I see lots of good shots with their thumbs along the side of the pistol. Does not work for me, I lock my thumbs on a pistol just like a revolver. Again, what works, what you're comfortable with and what you practice with constantly.

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