cpl suspension

stainless1911 · Feb 8, 2011

I'm not offended, I fully support this. It is also what IMO sets this forum above the rest. I will try to provide cite whenever I can.

DrTodd · Feb 8, 2011

smellslikemichigan said:
off the top of my head, this is as close as i could come up with for that:
http://www.stclaircounty.org/offices/foc/other_remedies.aspx

As an aside, I always thought this legislation was illogical... let's say someone CAN'T pay due to health issues or loss of job (this is Michigan), so let's take the person's professional license away so he or she can't find a new one... and let's not allow him or her to drive to work. That will definately ensure that he or she starts making those timely payments...

Bronson · Feb 9, 2011

DrTodd said:
BTW, the "person who refuses or neglects to support his or her family" is more commonly called a "vagrant".

Here's the full law. Notice they list "vagrant" and "a person of sufficient ability who refuses or neglects to support his or her family" as two separate and distinct qualifers for being a "disorderly person."

750.167 “Disorderly person” defined; subsequent violations by person convicted of refusing or neglecting to support family.

Sec. 167.
(1) A person is a disorderly person if the person is any of the following:

(a) A person of sufficient ability who refuses or neglects to support his or her family.

(b) A common prostitute.

(c) A window peeper.

(d) A person who engages in an illegal occupation or business.

(e) A person who is intoxicated in a public place and who is either endangering directly the safety of another person or of property or is acting in a manner that causes a public disturbance.

(f) A person who is engaged in indecent or obscene conduct in a public place.

(g) A vagrant.

(h) A person found begging in a public place.

(i) A person found loitering in a house of ill fame or prostitution or place where prostitution or lewdness is practiced, encouraged, or allowed.

(j) A person who knowingly loiters in or about a place where an illegal occupation or business is being conducted.

(k) A person who loiters in or about a police station, police headquarters building, county jail, hospital, court building, or other public building or place for the purpose of soliciting employment of legal services or the services of sureties upon criminal recognizances.

(l) A person who is found jostling or roughly crowding people unnecessarily in a public place.

(2) When a person, who has been convicted of refusing or neglecting to support his or her family under this section, is then charged with subsequent violations within a period of 2 years, that person shall be prosecuted as a second offender, or third and subsequent offender, as provided in section 168, if the family of that person is then receiving public relief or support.

I don't really have a dog in this fight since I don't have any spawn, but I also found this.

400.233b Child support arrearage amnesty period; designation; terms and conditions; administration; notification.
Sec. 3b.

(1) The director of the department shall direct the office to designate a period of not less than 90 days that ends not more than 7 months after the effective date of this section as a child support arrearage amnesty period. Under the terms and conditions set forth in subsection (2), the director, or the director's designee, shall grant a payer amnesty, waiving all criminal and civil penalties provided by law for the payer's failure or refusal to pay past due child support. Amnesty granted under this section waives criminal and civil penalties for failure or refusal to pay child support only in regard to the child support arrearage that the payer pays in total to qualify for amnesty.

(2) To qualify for amnesty under this section, a payer shall pay his or her child support arrearage amount either in total with the submission of the written amnesty request or by paying not less than 50% of the total amount with the submission of the written amnesty request and the balance before the amnesty period ends. A payer's amnesty is effective on the date the director, or the director's designee, receives the payer's written amnesty request with the payment of not less than 50% of the total child support arrearage amount. If a payer pays less than 100% of the total child support arrearage amount with the amnesty request, the payer's amnesty terminates at the end of the amnesty period unless the balance is paid before the amnesty period ends.

(3) A payer is not eligible to qualify for amnesty under this section if, before the payer submits the written request for amnesty and a payment as required by subsection (2), 1 or more of the following occur:

(a) Prosecution is initiated against the payer under section 161, 165, or 167(1)(a) or (2) of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.161, 750.165, and 750.167.

(b) The payer is arrested on a criminal warrant or bench warrant related to the payer's failure or refusal to pay past due child support.

(4) The office shall administer the amnesty program established by this section. As part of its administrative duties, at least 60 days before the start of the amnesty period, the office shall notify payers who may be eligible for amnesty under this section because they owe a child support arrearage. A description of the amnesty program included in scheduled notices and posted on the department's website is sufficient compliance with this notification requirement.

The bolded section 167(1)(a) is the "disorderly person" statute, specifically the "person of sufficient ability who refuses or neglects to support his or her family" section quoted above. It appears the law recognizes that somebody could be charged with "disorderly person" in connection with not paying child support if they are otherwise able. This has no bearing on whether or not the non-payer will be charged with disorderly or would normally be charged with something else. It's just that the law seems to recognize the possibility.

Again, this was just a couple of cursory searches. I have no idea what crime prosecutors normally bring against a non-paying parent. I just think the possibilty for getting hit with a disorderly person charge does exist and if you were convicted of disorderly you'd lose your CPL.

Bronson

Bronson · Feb 9, 2011

DrTodd said:
if the amount owed is huge or you have ignored the aforementioned punishment, you get charged with "felony non-support". Neither is under the disorderly statute.

That felony would get your CPL revoked regardless of a "disorderly" charge.

28.425b

(e) A statement by the applicant regarding whether he or she has ever been convicted in this state or elsewhere for any of the following:

(i) Any felony.

(7) The concealed weapon licensing board shall issue a license to an applicant to carry a concealed pistol within the period required under this act after the applicant properly submits an application under subsection (1) and the concealed weapon licensing board determines that all of the following circumstances exist:

(f) The applicant has never been convicted of a felony in this state or elsewhere, and a felony charge against the applicant is not pending in this state or elsewhere at the time he or she applies for a license described in this section.

750.165 Refusing to support spouse or child as required by court order; violation as felony; penalty; exception; cash bond; suspension of sentence; bond; "state disbursement unit" or "SDU" defined.
Sec. 165.

(1) If the court orders an individual to pay support for the individual's former or current spouse, or for a child of the individual, and the individual does not pay the support in the amount or at the time stated in the order, the individual is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or by a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.

That'll still get your CPL revoked.

So it looks like you can get hit with ciminal non-support which is a felonly and will get your CPL revoked or you might get hit with the lesser charge of "disorderly person" which is a specified 3 yr. misdemeanor and would get your CPL revoked. I can see why a prosecutor wouldn't bother to charge a non-paying parent with "disorderly" when there are other laws they can use to bring a felony charge against a non-paying parent.

Moral of the story is pay your damn child support.

ETA: Either way I don't believe they can just arbitrarily revoke your CPL because you haven't paid your child support. I believe you'd have to be charged and convicted of some crime and becoming ineligible for a CPL would be a secondary result of that conviction.

Bronson

Venator · Feb 9, 2011

OT, (h) has been challenged as unconstitutional in some courts I believe. I know that the ACLU has filed suit against some local ordinances for charging people with begging. Royal Oak was one of the towns mentioned. The reason is as long as the person is not a nuisance he has every right to be on a public street and can ask anyone a question including asking for money.

750.167 “Disorderly person” defined; subsequent violations by person convicted of refusing or neglecting to support family.

Sec. 167.
(1) A person is a disorderly person if the person is any of the following:

(h) A person found begging in a public place.

(

smellslikemichigan · Feb 9, 2011

DrTodd said:
As an aside, I always thought this legislation was illogical... let's say someone CAN'T pay due to health issues or loss of job (this is Michigan), so let's take the person's professional license away so he or she can't find a new one... and let's not allow him or her to drive to work. That will definately ensure that he or she starts making those timely payments...

you're absolutely right. makes no sense to suspend a professional license.
here is the law, no mention of CPL specifically:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(az...-of-1982&query=on&highlight=child AND support

DrTodd · Feb 9, 2011

Bronson said:
That felony would get your CPL revoked regardless of a "disorderly" charge.

28.425b

That'll still get your CPL revoked.

So it looks like you can get hit with ciminal non-support which is a felonly and will get your CPL revoked or you might get hit with the lesser charge of "disorderly person" which is a specified 3 yr. misdemeanor and would get your CPL revoked. I can see why a prosecutor wouldn't bother to charge a non-paying parent with "disorderly" when there are other laws they can use to bring a felony charge against a non-paying parent.

Moral of the story is pay your damn child support.

ETA: Either way I don't believe they can just arbitrarily revoke your CPL because you haven't paid your child support. I believe you'd have to be charged and convicted of some crime and becoming ineligible for a CPL would be a secondary result of that conviction.

Bronson

That is correct... bringing 'felony non-support" charges is the end result of a long process... a process in which it appears that the person who owes could have agreed to another remedy. As you correctly state, any felony would have the suspension of a cpl

Beerme · Feb 9, 2011

TheQ said:
You never fail to say something negative. Why did I bother to look?

The man asked a question. Contribute to the thread or "S-T-*-U".

I felt it was helpful advice.
had he paid his taxes this wouldnt have happened

DrTodd · Feb 9, 2011

Beerme said:
I felt it was helpful advice.
had he paid his taxes this wouldnt have happened

Kryptonian didn't say he had his CPL suspended, he was asking if MI could suspend a CPL for back taxes, child support, etc.

kryptonian · Feb 9, 2011

DrTodd said:
Kryptonian didn't say he had his CPL suspended, he was asking if MI could suspend a CPL for back taxes, child support, etc.

correct assesement dr todd. that was the original question and premise for this thread that got way off.

mudvr1212 · Feb 10, 2011

...

kryptonian said:
anybody know if the state of michigan can or would suspend your CPL for back taxes, child support, or any fines owed for anything? i ask because i do owe some back taxes and wouldn't surprise me if they did it. i know they do for child support but have they expanded that? i would hate to be in a LEO situation to have them come back from the patrol car with "well, well, well...guess what...."

Actually Kryptonian did say he owed "some back taxes." BeerMe was just stating the fact that if he did pay them to begin with, then he wouldn't be asking this particular question...it may be a no sh!t Sherlock but sometimes you have to state the obvious.

kryptonian · Feb 10, 2011

mudvr1212 said:
Actually Kryptonian did say he owed "some back taxes." BeerMe was just stating the fact that if he did pay them to begin with, then he wouldn't be asking this particular question...it may be a no sh!t Sherlock but sometimes you have to state the obvious.

yes..beerme stated the obvious. if i had the money of course i would pay it. they will get it in the next couple of months but wouldn't put it past the state to pull some dirty tricks. beerme..that sort of logic is the sort that doesn't need to be said. it's like telling someone fat not to eat so much. it's obvious advice but doesn't need to be said. if your kid had a couple failing grades and i said to you "your kid is stupid. you need to do something" does that need to be said and how would you take that? get my point? your life must be going so great that you can afford to be critical of everybody.

Super Trucker · Feb 10, 2011

It wouldn't surprise me if they did suspend it. They will just say, if a person has money for a CPL they should have money for their tax/support/fines payments.

ETA: Not kicking the OP, just giving an opinion of how they would handle it.

Bronson · Feb 11, 2011

Super Trucker said:
It wouldn't surprise me if they did suspend it. They will just say, if a person has money for a CPL they should have money for their tax/support/fines payments.

Suspending or revoking his CPL wouldn't get him his $105.00 back.

Bronson

CharleyMarbles · Feb 11, 2011

Super Trucker said:
It wouldn't surprise me if they did suspend it. They will just say, if a person has money for a CPL they should have money for their tax/support/fines payments.

ETA: Not kicking the OP, just giving an opinion of how they would handle it.

This ONLY makes sence if they refund his $105.00 so it can be applied to the BT. Or if they just Apply it to the BT.But they need to give him a recipt.

kryptonian · Feb 11, 2011

CharleyMarbles said:
This ONLY makes sence if they refund his $105.00 so it can be applied to the BT. Or if they just Apply it to the BT.But they need to give him a recipt.

if you know the SOM you would have to repay your $105 again as a 'reinstatement' fee.

Beerme · Feb 12, 2011

kryptonian said:
yes..beerme stated the obvious. if i had the money of course i would pay it. they will get it in the next couple of months but wouldn't put it past the state to pull some dirty tricks. beerme..that sort of logic is the sort that doesn't need to be said. it's like telling someone fat not to eat so much. it's obvious advice but doesn't need to be said. if your kid had a couple failing grades and i said to you "your kid is stupid. you need to do something" does that need to be said and how would you take that? get my point? your life must be going so great that you can afford to be critical of everybody.

lifes good actually thanks for the concern, meeting a girl that can keep my interest for more that a few weeks would be nice but meh im still young

scot623 · Feb 12, 2011

Beerme said:
lifes good actually thanks for the concern, meeting a girl that can keep my interest for more that a few weeks would be nice but meh im still young

A girl who can keep your interest is one thing. One who will stick around listening to your steady stream of negativity and dealing with your wicked superiority complex is another. Good luck with that.

Onnie · Feb 12, 2011

scot623 said:
A girl who can keep your interest is one thing. One who will stick around listening to your steady stream of negativity and dealing with your wicked superiority complex is another. Good luck with that.

roflmao:dude:

DrTodd · Feb 12, 2011

scot623 said:
A girl who can keep your interest is one thing. One who will stick around listening to your steady stream of negativity and dealing with your wicked superiority complex is another. Good luck with that.

My ex-wife may be available... although they say two people exactly alike is not really a good thing. (JK)

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