Fox turns tables on man with intent of killing it.

Well Claytron ...


issue 1: animals starving in traps or gnawing legs off

These are old animal activist stand bys. Sure maybe this was common in 1821, but then again you don't make your 1.00 per beaver (in 1821 dollars) if the beaver gets loose or eaten by a scavenger. An Indian might have stolen it from your trap though. It may have been common in 1901 too, but I'd bet a trapper back then was very much looking for some money, and you can't make money from a skeleton or a paw. We can even examine 1979 when a red fox could get you 75.00. Lots of yahoos were around in 1979 from what I hear, so this is likley where the activists get their dirt. However when fur prices tanked about 1985, only the REAL trappers kept at it. Just like with law abiding gun owners, they did and still do abide by the trapping laws. I'm not sure what is with the youtube yahoos- I haven't seen these myself. I've watched some trapping stuff on youtube but didn't see any messed up paws or animals that starved to death. Heck, even I am on youtube discussing coon trapping methods. I came across a bit off a video set for traps4kids.com, of which I volunteered to be filmed.

Simply put- inhumane activities are uncommon among furtrappers as a whole, just like those who open carry tend to not threaten to shoot innocent people.

issue 2- hunting and wildlife #'s

The extinctions refered to were mainly 100 or more years ago. The ones occuring more recently or of animals in great threat of it today, are from poaching and habitat loss, and mainly in countries without the resources to really heavily combat the problem. Now some of these countries have allowed only sport hunting and controlled culls, and this actually keeps poaching down because locals get paid well enough to be guides and trackers, and their villages get the meat. This keeps out the incentive to poach among the locals, which was what a large part of the poaching problem was in the past. The sport hunters pay huge amounts of money to take a small amount of game. Part of the money goes towards better managing the land for the benefit of the animals, and keeps habitat loss down as well.

Modern hunting in north america is heavily regulated. If the state game managers notice a problem, they can increase or decrease the bag limits and season lengths. Most hunters abide by the regulations. Poachers are not well liked, and there are game officers out there doing what they can to curb it. Due to modern game management there are more whitetail deer in the US than there were in 1600. Wild turkeys came back with a bang, beavers are now overpopulated on most of their range, and black bears are thick in #'s. Coyotes are now taking up the role of wolves that used to exist in the east. Game animals are a nuisance nowadays, that is how plentiful most of the species are.

issue #3- white buffalo

These are a rare genetic anamoly, always have been. On the issue of bison in general, don't worry, they are doing well these days. Not overpopulated by any means, but they are fine. Bison ranching is a hot thing now too.

XD40coyote said:

Well Claytron ...


issue 1: animals starving in traps or gnawing legs off

These are old animal activist stand bys. Sure maybe this was common in 1821, but then again you don't make your 1.00 per beaver (in 1821 dollars) if the beaver gets loose or eaten by a scavenger. An Indian might have stolen it from your trap though. It may have been common in 1901 too, but I'd bet a trapper back then was very much looking for some money, and you can't make money from a skeleton or a paw. We can even examine 1979 when a red fox could get you 75.00. Lots of yahoos were around in 1979 from what I hear, so this is likley where the activists get their dirt. However when fur prices tanked about 1985, only the REAL trappers kept at it. Just like with law abiding gun owners, they did and still do abide by the trapping laws. I'm not sure what is with the youtube yahoos- I haven't seen these myself. I've watched some trapping stuff on youtube but didn't see any messed up paws or animals that starved to death. Heck, even I am on youtube discussing coon trapping methods. I came across a bit off a video set for traps4kids.com, of which I volunteered to be filmed.

Simply put- inhumane activities are uncommon among furtrappers as a whole, just like those who open carry tend to not threaten to shoot innocent people.

issue 2- hunting and wildlife #'s

The extinctions refered to were mainly 100 or more years ago. The ones occuring more recently or of animals in great threat of it today, are from poaching and habitat loss, and mainly in countries without the resources to really heavily combat the problem. Now some of these countries have allowed only sport hunting and controlled culls, and this actually keeps poaching down because locals get paid well enough to be guides and trackers, and their villages get the meat. This keeps out the incentive to poach among the locals, which was what a large part of the poaching problem was in the past. The sport hunters pay huge amounts of money to take a small amount of game. Part of the money goes towards better managing the land for the benefit of the animals, and keeps habitat loss down as well.

Modern hunting in north america is heavily regulated. If the state game managers notice a problem, they can increase or decrease the bag limits and season lengths. Most hunters abide by the regulations. Poachers are not well liked, and there are game officers out there doing what they can to curb it. Due to modern game management there are more whitetail deer in the US than there were in 1600. Wild turkeys came back with a bang, beavers are now overpopulated on most of their range, and black bears are thick in #'s. Coyotes are now taking up the role of wolves that used to exist in the east. Game animals are a nuisance nowadays, that is how plentiful most of the species are.

issue #3- white buffalo

These are a rare genetic anamoly, always have been. On the issue of bison in general, don't worry, they are doing well these days. Not overpopulated by any means, but they are fine. Bison ranching is a hot thing now too.

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You havent said anything about knocking an animal in the head to stun it and then standing on its chest to crush the lungs so that Ms. Thing in Cali can have her neat new fox fur coat.

Im curious if you have anything more to say than "i like the extra money" and "well they did it way back when, its tradition."?

Here in the usa its efficient to beat something to death with the butt of your gun so you dont ruin the pelt, in other parts of the world its efficient to skin the animal alive to cut down costs. Whats the difference as far as whats "generally accepted?" Your less cruel method of getting people their beloved fancy furs is ok but theirs is not? Both are fine?

regardless of your opinion on how much pain an animal should feel to make your job more efficient, i have to seriously ask myself if you even acknowledge that people go about it in an irresponsible manner? You seen to not want to admit that bad people do bad things and yes, even trappers, can be bad people. The fact that you want to generalize trappers AND OCers as good people just kind of points out your bias. ALL people of ANY category are, arguably, "good people". That doesnt mean some of them dont screw it up for the rest of them.

You say that because YOU havent heard stories of animals being left in traps doesnt mean it hasnt happened. I understand that everyone on this forum has the mindset of "provide 20 specific examples of it happening from sources we trust, or it doesnt even exist/didnt happen" but i live in maine and have not only heard the stories through various low key local news sources but have also heard people telling their own stories. I live in maine, all you need to do is order a burger at some little hick diner upstate to hear enough hunting stories to last you a month. My grandfather and great uncle both died WHILE hunting because they did it so much. Hunting and being around the woods and animals is nothing new to me, so trust me i dont need sources from your favorite pro-trapping site to help me out.

Here in maine we have problems with people baiting AND trapping animals they shouldnt, including people leaving live traps in areas too close to populated areas and not marking them and even people baiting animals into one spot, shooting them dead and letting them rot. Not everyone goes about it the way they should and thats why it needs to be looked at over here specifically.

So as i said before, and i doubt this will break through to the strawman extraordinairres on this forum, i am not against hunting or OCing( not sure at all why you brought that up) and im nto even against trapping if its done properly and not by some ******* ready to leave a bunch of animals to starve to death. In your world of internet fact checking that might not exist, but in my world of hearing, what i presume to be true, accounts of people doing it themselves, it does exist.


Also seriously..... you guys point me to the sarcasm button and ill make sure i click it a couple times before typing anything about white buffalo and El Chupacabra... My sarcasm was no match for your wikipedial superiority.

eye95 said:

White buffalo are genetic anomalies. They are not a breed or a species. They still exist.

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COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Personal attack

Any stats about how trapping has effected the mating habits of el chupacabra?

I do know that animal activists have infiltrated Maine, probably including turning hunters against trappers and trappers against houndsmen, so you could just be hearing malarky and BS. Or maybe there are alot of trashy folk up there? The trappers I know in PA sure don't seem that way.

Other than that, you have shown you are just plain an a-hole by the way you explode with the animal rights sounding BS coming out of you ( skinning animals alive?), so I see no reason to try a civil debate with you anymore. BTW stunning a fox with a blow to the head and standing on the chest is actually a pretty quick death for the fox. A helluva lot better than them dying of mange ( which they do all time where I am), parvo, rabies, or canine distemper.

well I've been trapping for 7 years now, my daddy has been trapping for 50 years and my grandaddy trapped for close to 70 years.
and we all have yet to have an animal gnaw its leg off, and hitting it with a club is as quick if not quicker than shooting it in the head.
and leg hold traps barely hurt the critters at worse a sore paw for a few days when we release them.
we check the traps everyday and nothing starves to death.

so next time you decide to condemn something that you know nothing about,
either learn about it and base your decision of the truth or
let it be and mind your own damn business!

Claytron said:

Any stats about how trapping has affected the mating habits of el chupacabra?

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Fixed.

Claytron said:

strawmen extraordinaire on this forum, i am not against hunting or OCing( not sure at all why you brought that up) and im not even against trapping if its done properly and not by some ******* ready to leave a bunch of animals to starve to death. In your world of internet fact checking that might not exist, but in my world of hearing, what i presume to be true, accounts of people doing it themselves, it does exist.

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Fixed.

Claytron said:

You are also incorrect about trapping, its not done ONLY for extra income or food.

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Fixed.

Claytron

Have the moderators removed it yet?

I don't like bigoted idjiots.

marshaul said:

Fixed.

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using up that much forum space just to "get back at me" seems a bit childish doesnt it?

OldCurlyWolf said:

Have the moderators removed it yet?

I don't like bigoted idjiots.

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If by "it" you mean the stick up your rear then apparently not.

I dont like old stubborn fools.

Claytron said:

using up that much forum space just to "get back at me" seems a bit childish doesnt it?

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Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot.

Claytron said:

If by "it" you mean the stick up your rear then apparently not.

I dont like old stubborn fools.

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I am stubborn and obviously older than you, but I am not the fool.

Nice try. Given about 40 or 50 years you might just make barely competent at delivering insults.

OldCurlyWolf said:

I am stubborn and obviously older than you, but I am not the fool.

Nice try. Given about 40 or 50 years you might just make barely competent at delivering insults.

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So once i reach your age i can expect to knock out zingers like "I dont like idjiots"?

How is it that when you say something completely childish an ignorant its fine, but when i copy what you say its considered bad?

Like i said, i dont like stubborn old fools.

marshaul said:

Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot.

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As witty and trendy as that comment is, it really doesnt hold water (pun intended) seeing as how you posted three or four comments right after one another which seems to be a little overdoing it, as compared to my one comment towards you.

Lets also keep in mind that the only reason i corrected you is because you felt it important enough to correct someone ELSE and give THEM a hard time for it. Play your little games all you like i understand this forum is your internet-home and you dont like outsiders, thats fine.

I just dont see the point of picking out a completely random person who was trying to contribute to the thread and pointing out to everyone how they have mispelled something. How petty and low can you be dude?

Claytron said:

As witty and trendy as that comment is, it really doesnt hold water (pun intended) seeing as how you posted three or four comments right after one another which seems to be a little overdoing it, as compared to my one comment towards you.

Lets also keep in mind that the only reason i corrected you is because you felt it important enough to correct someone ELSE and give THEM a hard time for it. Play your little games all you like i understand this forum is your internet-home and you dont like outsiders, thats fine.

I just dont see the point of picking out a completely random person who was trying to contribute to the thread and pointing out to everyone how they have mispelled something. How petty and low can you be dude?

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You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.

As I have made clear now on multiple occasions:

1. The fault I identified was not a simple misspelling, but was a failure to appreciate the difference between two easily confused, but different words.

2. This fault was notably ironic in the context in which it appeared, which was a statement about the preferability of homeschooling.

Its observation is actually noteworthy: advocating homeschool while making fundamental grammatical errors, like failing to appreciate "their" vs "they're", negatively affects the argument one is trying to make.

I made a simple observation of the error, and pointed out the irony. I did so not to ridicule, but to help the individual express her opinion in such a way so as to achieve maximum credibility. I did so politely, and we continued on the thread topic in friendly discussion. You are the only one who saw a need to drag the issue out into other threads, days later.

That was truly petty: following me around, looking for a single-character transposition, and worthlessly pointing it out.

There is a critical difference that you simply cannot grasp: In the first case, the error directly reflected upon the credibility of the opinion being given. In the second case, it was a typo which had no effect on the credibility of my argument.

So, whereas I helped a person (potentially) strengthen the credibility of her position and her expression of it, you engaged in trivial, trifling pedantry, to make a point which is invalidated by the incorrect equation of the one scenario with the other.

So, I think it was more charitable than you deserve to imply that ours were equally puerile acts. Yours was clearly the more childish, all the more so for its lack of understanding and appreciation of context and subtlety.

And, yes, it was thoroughly enjoyable singling out three of your errors in a row, all in separate posts. And yes, it was appropriate. Once or twice wouldn't have properly reflect the ridiculous nature of your misguided campaign.

That's the last word you're going to get out of me on this. It's time to eye95 it, both of us.


Edit: eye95 gets it:

eye95 said:

The absolute height of rhetorical irony is the ubiquitous "Your an idiot!"

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marshaul said:

You have a very hard time with reading comprehension.

As I have made clear now on multiple occasions:

1. The fault I identified was not a simple misspelling, but was a failure to appreciate the difference between two easily confused, but different words.

2. This fault was notably ironic in the context in which it appeared, which was a statement about the preferability of homeschooling.

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So now we are going to argue that you had more of a reason to pick on someone for their mistake? Misspellings are off limits to criticism but when someone uses the wrong word, its fair game. Huh. Is this in your precious printed copy of the forum rules or is it just something you make up as you go along in order to justify the crap you say?

LOL and i absolutely LOVE the way you go on to spin it as if you were doing it to help the person.... Are you trying to BS me, or yourself with that one?

And when you imply that its childish for me to correct you in a separate thread whats your reasoning behind it not being childish when you go on to do it 4 times in a row on the same thread, making not just me but EVERYONE have to scroll past it?

Sounds like you should have just been the better man and let a child be a child, instead you went on to be 4 times more childish than me.

well,,,

Claytron said:

So now we are going to argue that you had more of a reason to pick on someone for their mistake? Misspellings are off limits to criticism but when someone uses the wrong word, its fair game. Huh. Is this in your precious printed copy of the forum rules or is it just something you make up as you go along in order to justify the crap you say?

LOL and i absolutely LOVE the way you go on to spin it as if you were doing it to help the person.... Are you trying to BS me, or yourself with that one?

And when you imply that its childish for me to correct you in a separate thread whats your reasoning behind it not being childish when you go on to do it 4 times in a row on the same thread, making not just me but EVERYONE have to scroll past it?

Sounds like you should have just been the better man and let a child be a child, instead you went on to be 4 times more childish than me.

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Its not a competition,,, its an exhibition!

Im sure in the final analysis, we will all conclude that in the race to be most childish,
YOU clatron, will win, by an overwhelmingly large margin!

consider this a welcome opportunity to prove all of us to be WRONG!

In your world of internet fact checking that might not exist-Claytron

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Uh huh, so I guess the trappers I know first hand don't count, and one of those trappers is myself.

Claytron said:

So now we are going to argue that you had more of a reason to pick on someone for their mistake? Misspellings are off limits to criticism but when someone uses the wrong word, its fair game. Huh. Is this in your precious printed copy of the forum rules or is it just something you make up as you go along in order to justify the crap you say?

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It's :lol: