HB1016 and SB 5112 Giant step forward.

I'm not sure if any of you are following these or has interest. I have been writing officials in olympia for a few years now. About how rediculous it was that we can own suppressors but can't shoot them in washington.

A few people have really been leading the way this legislative season to get these two bills pushed through. Lots of letters from people and support from WACOPS and HB1016 passed the house a few weeks ago. BS 5112 recieved a "do pass" vote today! Both with virtually no oposition!

On to the Gov's desk for signing.

Nice. Time to start figuring out where I'm going to come up with the $1000 I need. Fisher (ie Smith Enterprises) makes one that will fit both my M-14 and AR15 rifles. Costs $800 plus a $200 tax stamp. Now we just have to cross our fingers that the governor won't mess up the process.

(Update: Dude, you got us all excited. It just passed the Judiciary Committee. It still has to go before the full Senate. At least according to the Legislature's website.)

Jason Brendel said:

I'm not sure if any of you are following these or has interest. I have been writing officials in olympia for a few years now. About how rediculous it was that we can own suppressors but can't shoot them in washington.

A few people have really been leading the way this legislative season to get these two bills pushed through. Lots of letters from people and support from WACOPS and HB1016 passed the house a few weeks ago. BS 5112 recieved a "do pass" vote today! Both with virtually no oposition!

On to the Gov's desk for signing.

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Wow that was quick... easy, too easy... wonder if the birch will actually sign it.

well if its cheaper you fill out a form 1 instead of a form 4 with atf and its still the same 200 doller tax stamp but i beleve the form 1 is to make one and they are easy so you only have the tax stamp cost and about 30 dollers in materials

V

heresolong said:

(Update: Dude, you got us all excited. It just passed the Judiciary Committee. It still has to go before the full Senate. At least according to the Legislature's website.)

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Ok well you are technically right. My comment was a let's move this on keep it rolling..cheer... But like other legislation I have followed that made it through the committees so easily... the floor vote is always a breeze. The house floor vote was 88 ya, 4 na.

The thing I am curious about and I haven't received a straight answer on is since the house bill passed and there is a companion bill in the senate on the verge of passing. And since neither bill got a amendment... does it just simply go to the desk right away, or does hb 1016 technically need to be passed through committee and to senate floor. I have been assured this isn't the case. But I can't find where it clearly is written.

Jason Brendel said:

But I can't find where it clearly is written.

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If the companion bills have the exact same language then they are the same bill and, having been passed by both houses, they move to the governor.

heresolong said:

Nice. Time to start figuring out where I'm going to come up with the $1000 I need. Fisher (ie Smith Enterprises) makes one that will fit both my M-14 and AR15 rifles. Costs $800 plus a $200 tax stamp. Now we just have to cross our fingers that the governor won't mess up the process.

(Update: Dude, you got us all excited. It just passed the Judiciary Committee. It still has to go before the full Senate. At least according to the Legislature's website.)

Click to expand...

Don't forget that even if it passes there are other hurdles to clear before one can even get the "stamp". There is the "CLEO" (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) sign-off. Unlike Washington State CPL's, that is not a "shall issue" type happening. If you happen to live in an area where the Chief or Sheriff doesn't like the idea of citizens having suppressors, good luck. The reason that Law Enforcement is supporting this bill is so THEY can legally use them. It will still be up to the "good will" of the "CLEO" in order for us mere mortals to own and use them.

Let's see what happens.

amlevin said:

Don't forget that even if it passes there are other hurdles to clear before one can even get the "stamp". There is the "CLEO" (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) sign-off. Unlike Washington State CPL's, that is not a "shall issue" type happening. If you happen to live in an area where the Chief or Sheriff doesn't like the idea of citizens having suppressors, good luck. The reason that Law Enforcement is supporting this bill is so THEY can legally use them. It will still be up to the "good will" of the "CLEO" in order for us mere mortals to own and use them.

Let's see what happens.

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My buddy just got around that by creating a trust for the suppressor...no sweet-talking of the CLEO required!

skiingislife725 said:

My buddy just got around that by creating a trust for the suppressor...no sweet-talking of the CLEO required!

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Trusts can be tricky. Just because the ATF approves the transfer doesn't mean they approve the trust.

(from a Trust Lawyer website)

The more troubling issue with a Trust is that there are many invalid trusts that have been approved by the ATF. The reason this is problematic is that many individuals feel there possession and use of these firearms valid because ATF approved the transfer. They do not realize that the ATF's approval is to a valid trust and while they may disapprove an obviously invalid trust, there is no requirement for the ATF to validate (nor do they validate) a trust.

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Just having a "trust" doesn't shield one from the consequences of improper transfer, illegal possession, or constructive possession of an NFA regulated item. Remember that Dealer that offers to "handle setting up the trust for you" has a sale in mind and won't be there if the "Farm Animal Residue hits the Air Distribution Device" and you find one of your "tender appendages" in the wringer.

skiingislife725 said:

My buddy just got around that by creating a trust for the suppressor...no sweet-talking of the CLEO required!

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Agreed... A trust or a formation of a LLC is most peoples way around the CLEO sign off. They only sign for individuals. I am not sure I would trust the "Trust" so to speak on one of the software programs. From the research I have been doing. Your trust has to stand up in court if challenged. The generic trust forms don't hold up in every state. If you do one, i would spend a few bucks to have a lawyer familiar with trusts or even better a lawyer familiar with NFA related trusts look at it.

Keep in mind when a trust is properly set up you DO NOT own the NFA item. You purchase the item on behalf of the trust as the acting trustee. As trustee you can set up the trust language so you are leagally able to possess, transport and use said NFA item as trustee. You can also list co-trustee's or beneficiaries. You actually cannot list the NFA item on your schedule A until after the transfer has been approved. Thats where alot of people mess up. When you file a trust with the ATF you only have to list what you put in to start the trust say 20 bucks.

There is alot of info out there on gun trusts or title II trusts. Just make sure you dot your I's and cross your T's because the ATFs job isn't doing that, they just make sure you have proper forms and signatures and cash the check. I saw one trust that didn't stipulate what happened if the Trustee passed away. If that happened the executor of the will and the recipient could be in a lot of trouble.


This is not legal advice... simply the rambling of a 2A fan using google...

amlevin,

Your post wasn't there when I started typing... glad I am not the only one concerned with people thinking everything is fine because they bought a will making program so to speak.

Jason Brendel said:

amlevin,

Your post wasn't there when I started typing... glad I am not the only one concerned with people thinking everything is fine because they bought a will making program so to speak.

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I would hope that one wouldn't start the process of getting a suppressor through any means via the tips from an online discussion board. Completely agree with going through an attorney to save the hassle.