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Sorry State of Education of Sheriff Deputies

Edgar

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
15
Location
roy wa
this evening i asked two pierce county sheriff deputies if a citys ban on carring in a stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, does not apply to some one licenced under RCW 9.41.070. does that apply to open carry as well if the person is licenced under RCW 9.41.070?

this is what i was told by both officers " that state laws supperced fed. laws, county laws and ordences supperced state laws, and city laws and ordences supperced all of the above." i asked for them to clarify this statement i was told that if a city has a ordence banning firearms and i was caught carring with my ccl i would go to jail.

am i the only one asking what the hell is the schooling that every cop has to complete for if it is so lacking in the basic structure of our legal system that two (2) separate deputies that have eleven years on the job dont know the first thing about the hierarchy of our state legal system.:banghead:
 

Tomas

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
702
Location
University Place, Washington, USA
This is why, whether you are right or wrong, lawful or unlawful in your behavior, they will simply take a wild guess at the law and arrest you anyway if they don't like it, and let a judge sort it out. :banghead:

Enjoy your night in jail for doing nothing unlawful! :lol:

The problem is that there are no repercussions for the LEOs if their guess is wrong. :(

(If there actually were, they'd likely be a Hell of a lot more knowledgeable, because they would be putting THEIR butt on the line, not yours.)

Enjoy!
 

Tomas

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
702
Location
University Place, Washington, USA
Sounds like your giving up a little too easy. Sometimes we must sacrifice for our rights just as our rights sacrifice for us

By golly, thank you so very much for volunteering to supplement my Social Security if I need a few thousand extra to pursue some legal action. :lol:

I did my sacrifices at war, and fought my battles since as best I could. Those things I am able to fight I continue to fight, but at some point one MUST recognize that a battle is beyond one's reach.

Take care!
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
By golly, thank you so very much for volunteering to supplement my Social Security if I need a few thousand extra to pursue some legal action. :lol:

I did my sacrifices at war, and fought my battles since as best I could. Those things I am able to fight I continue to fight, but at some point one MUST recognize that a battle is beyond one's reach.

Take care!

The key it be absolutely right in your actions. That means have the law totally on your side and not muddy things up with one's mouth while dealing with the officers. IF they arrest and jail you wrongly, you may well have lawyers burning up your phone to represent you on contingency.

I said IF they arrest you. In a lot of incidents like this many officers are merely employing intimidation and are banking on the fact that you will yield before they have to book you. Arrests like this are often the result of a conference with a supervisor at the scene, more conversations with "upper management" prior to booking, and then there is the Prosecutor who has final say on whether charges are filed.

If I am going about my business and am TOTALLY Legal then I would take it to the max. Remember, the toughest problem is to keep one's mouth under control so that the only ones in the wrong are the officers that don't seem to know the law.

on the OP--
One thing to keep in mind about Stadiums and Convention Centers, the "Lessee" can establish their own rules. They don't have the weight of law but can get you excluded from the premises. Failure to leave will then be a trespass situation and that could get you arrested.

For the deputies, they all seem to get tangled in their underwear over State Preemption. What they say is often the case for other laws/ordnances but the State clearly preempted the regulation of firearms.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Yep, there are consequences though not the kind many of would like to see. But it is difficult to fight the "system" that has huge resources to defend their unlawful "law enforcement officers".

I would like to see officers lose their jobs for enforcing their "viewpoints". We simply don't need them on our dime.

Wish I was more mobile I'd go visit my brother in that area and OC into the station and ask for a complaint form.
 

FMCDH

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
2,037
Location
St. Louis, MO
<SNIP>
For the deputies, they all seem to get tangled in their underwear over State Preemption. What they say is often the case for other laws/ordnances but the State clearly preempted the regulation of firearms.

Many are also transferees from other states where firearms laws are loosely or not at all preempted, such as California. Then there are states such as Illinois that have a sort of "reverse" preemption that specifically allows more, but no less, stringent regulation then at the state level. Most transferee officers in my experience never take the time to learn Washington laws on the matter and rely on their past knowledge or locker room rumors.
 

Badger Johnson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,213
Location
USA
LEOs are allowed to lie to their 'victims/suspects' and because of that they feel entitled to lie whenever they wish in other areas, and feel no compunction to be truthful, even when they are called into court to testify, apparently.
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Most transferee officers in my experience never take the time to learn Washington laws on the matter and rely on their past knowledge or locker room rumors.

Let's not overlook the FTO's that indoctrinate the "new arrivals" into the local "culture". By "culture" I don't mean the best restaurants or clubs, I mean the department "culture" of what they "allow" the citizens in their jurisdiction to get away with. Remember that at one time the "culture" of the SPD was to "prone out and disarm" anyone audacious enough to OC in "Their City".
 

FMCDH

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
2,037
Location
St. Louis, MO
Let's not overlook the FTO's that indoctrinate the "new arrivals" into the local "culture". By "culture" I don't mean the best restaurants or clubs, I mean the department "culture" of what they "allow" the citizens in their jurisdiction to get away with. Remember that at one time the "culture" of the SPD was to "prone out and disarm" anyone audacious enough to OC in "Their City".

Very true.
 

Tawnos

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Washington
Many are also transferees from other states where firearms laws are loosely or not at all preempted, such as California.

CA's preemption is the same as Oregon's. The only difference is how hard CA makes obtaining a CCW.
 

FMCDH

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
2,037
Location
St. Louis, MO
CA's preemption is the same as Oregon's. The only difference is how hard CA makes obtaining a CCW.

You sure about that?

Oregon (Too large to post)
http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html
Starting at - ORS 166.170 State Preemption.

California (This is all that is known by handgunlaw.us)
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=2899717141+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
Starting at - California Government Code 53071
53071. It is the intention of the Legislature to occupy the whole
field of regulation of the registration or licensing of commercially
manufactured firearms as encompassed by the provisions of the Penal
Code, and such provisions shall be exclusive of all local
regulations, relating to registration or licensing of commercially
manufactured firearms, by any political subdivision as defined in
Section 1721 of the Labor Code.



53071.5. By the enforcement of this section, the Legislature
occupies the whole field of regulation of the manufacture, sale, or
possession of imitation firearms, as defined in Section 12550 of the
Penal Code, and that section shall preempt and be exclusive of all
regulations relating to the manufacture, sale, or possession of
imitation firearms, including regulations governing the manufacture,
sale, or possession of BB devices and air rifles described in
subdivision (g) of Section 12001 of the Penal Code.



53071.5. By the enforcement of this section, the Legislature
occupies the whole field of regulation of the manufacture, sale, or
possession of imitation firearms, as defined in subdivision (a) of
Section 16700 of the Penal Code, and that section shall preempt and
be exclusive of all regulations relating to the manufacture, sale, or
possession of imitation firearms, including regulations governing
the manufacture, sale, or possession of BB devices and air rifles
described in Section 16250 of the Penal Code.
 

jbone

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,230
Location
WA
SNIP...(2) separate deputies that have eleven years on the job dont know the first thing about the hierarchy of our state legal system.:banghead:

Are you taken this to the hierarchy of the department in order to establish if this was a miss-directed statement by two uninformed deputies, or sanctioned policy and beliefs from the top ranks of that department.
 

jbone

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,230
Location
WA
Let's not overlook the FTO's that indoctrinate the "new arrivals" into the local "culture". By "culture" I don't mean the best restaurants or clubs, I mean the department "culture" of what they "allow" the citizens in their jurisdiction to get away with. Remember that at one time the "culture" of the SPD was to "prone out and disarm" anyone audacious enough to OC in "Their City".

Others state that since police come from the dominate American society (culture) that police are not a seperate culture, but rather they are a "subculture" of American society.
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Others state that since police come from the dominate American society (culture) that police are not a seperate culture, but rather they are a "subculture" of American society.

Perhaps that was true "once upon a time". Over the last couple of decades there has been a definite separation of cultures. Far too many of the "police culture" believe that it is "Us" against "Them" (meaning the rest of society). Listen (and read on various forums) to what they think of people like us who exercise their right to carry a firearm. If they truly were a "subculture" of American Society they would be just as outraged over the denial or infringement on our rights. Most don't care because they have "special protections". Almost every law that denies us the right to carry a firearm has a corresponding clause that essentially says "Except Police".

Another example would be HR-218 that allows police officers, active and retired, to carry firearms even in States where the residents are either prohibited or severely restricted, on or off duty, working or just on vacation. Can you do that? In essence, HR-218 is a Nationwide CPL and more than one officer I have spoken to laughs about how they get special privilege.

Go to a range sometime when there is a group of Police Officers shooting. They don't want to mingle with the "common folk".

This is not universal but it occurs enough where there is the feeling given that they do feel they are part of a special culture. Why is it that there are huge memorials when one of "theirs" is killed but when someone wrongfully dies at their hands everyone forgets after 4-5 "news cycles"? If someone kills one of "theirs" they immediately band together to find the truth. When a "woodcarver" is shot by one of them the first words spoken by their "spokesperson" is to place blame on the victim.

So much for their culture being a subculture of society.

Hopefully this is not taken as a "bashing" post because there are those in their "culture" that don't feel this way. It would be nice to see them become the Vocal Majority rather than remain in the background as they seem to be doing. Wouldn't it be refreshing, for a change, to see police officers come out and say that one of their fellow officers screwed up rather than forming a wall of silence? Unfortunately, the last one that did that locally was vilified by his fellow officers for challenging Troy Meade's shooting of a drunk who's car was high-centered on a concrete curbing and jambed against a fence.
 
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