Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 47

Thread: **patriot act rejected**

  1. #1
    Regular Member BigIrish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    edmonds, wa, ,
    Posts
    76

    Thumbs up **patriot act rejected**

    FEG~PA 63......i call it the noisy cricket....little gun huge friggin BANG**

  2. #2
    Regular Member BigIrish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    edmonds, wa, ,
    Posts
    76

    Thumbs up bah...bah..bah

    Haha Navy! Your right on point sir!
    FEG~PA 63......i call it the noisy cricket....little gun huge friggin BANG**

  3. #3
    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    University Place, Washington, USA
    Posts
    705
    Possibly, just possibly, one of the Political Action groups I'm involved with and the many letters and phone calls to our legislators about this helped in letting it expire as it should.

    We are still pushing on this, since undoubtedly there will be some who will keep pushing on the other side too, and keep trying to reduce our rights and freedoms.
    No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: The officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets. -- Edward Abbey

    • • • Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Faciémus!• • •

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    766

    Jaime Herrera Beutler likes the police state

    Unfortunately the "un" Patriot Act is not dead. Although the House was short a few votes of a 2/3 majority needed to fast track the abomination, there are plenty of votes to pass it with a simple majority.

    My congresswoman Jaime Herrera Beutler voted for bill. I made the mistake of voting for her in the primary and general elections. She failed her first big test, so I will not vote for her in 2012.

  5. #5
    Regular Member BigIrish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    edmonds, wa, ,
    Posts
    76

    time to send some emails

    Write her! I send e-mails to them all the time.
    FEG~PA 63......i call it the noisy cricket....little gun huge friggin BANG**

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Isn't DHS (Department of Homeland Security) part of the patriot act? Would this mean they would be gone too? (hoping fingers crossed, and probably getting tagged and monitored for speaking my mind on a public forum about it).
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Lake Stevens, WA
    Posts
    400
    Yah like Brent44 said, H.R. 514 is definitely NOT dead. They just passed House Resol 79 yesterday allowing for another vote on it, this time only requiring a simple majority. Meaning it'll almost definitely pass because we keep voting in D's and R's and expect them to deliver different results. I'd say our legislature sucks but we did vote them in after all.

    H Res 79 voted on yesterday, Feb 10: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll029.xml
    Last edited by skiingislife725; 02-11-2011 at 12:42 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gig Harbor, Washington, USA
    Posts
    78

    Not so sure I'm happy about it

    "The Patriot Act bill would have renewed the authority for court-approved roving wiretaps that permit surveillance on multiple phones. Also addressed was Section 215, the so-called library records provision that gives the FBI court-approved access to “any tangible thing’’ relevant to a terrorism investigation.

    The third deals with the “lone-wolf’’ provision of a 2004 anti-terror law that permits secret intelligence surveillance of non-U.S. people not known to be affiliated with a specific terrorist organization."

    I guess if another attack happens, and these measures could have prevented it, those of us who wanted these "authorities" removed, are partially responsible (and to blame) for what happens because of it.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    Kryteon

  9. #9
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Terra, Sol
    Posts
    2,779
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryteon View Post

    I guess if another attack happens, and these measures could have prevented it, those of us who wanted these "authorities" removed, are partially responsible (and to blame) for what happens because of it.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    Kryteon
    If I don't do my job right I get fired and they bring in someone who can.

    They don't keep me on, pat me on the head, and then introduce me to the new guys in the new dept they created to cover my ineptitude.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryteon View Post
    "The Patriot Act bill would have renewed the authority for court-approved roving wiretaps that permit surveillance on multiple phones. Also addressed was Section 215, the so-called library records provision that gives the FBI court-approved access to “any tangible thing’’ relevant to a terrorism investigation.

    The third deals with the “lone-wolf’’ provision of a 2004 anti-terror law that permits secret intelligence surveillance of non-U.S. people not known to be affiliated with a specific terrorist organization."

    I guess if another attack happens, and these measures could have prevented it, those of us who wanted these "authorities" removed, are partially responsible (and to blame) for what happens because of it.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    Kryteon
    What other inalienable rights are you willing to give up for safety?
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 02-12-2011 at 11:09 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    What other inalienable rights are you willing to give up for safety?
    Quote for the 202nd anniversary of President Lincolns birth....

    "Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it."
    -- April 6, 1859 - Lincoln Letter to Henry Pierce
    Live Free or Die!

  12. #12
    Regular Member BigIrish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    edmonds, wa, ,
    Posts
    76

    Angry some what understandable......

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryteon View Post
    "The Patriot Act bill would have renewed the authority for court-approved roving wiretaps that permit surveillance on multiple phones. Also addressed was Section 215, the so-called library records provision that gives the FBI court-approved access to “any tangible thing’’ relevant to a terrorism investigation.

    The third deals with the “lone-wolf’’ provision of a 2004 anti-terror law that permits secret intelligence surveillance of non-U.S. people not known to be affiliated with a specific terrorist organization."

    I guess if another attack happens, and these measures could have prevented it, those of us who wanted these "authorities" removed, are partially responsible (and to blame) for what happens because of it.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.


    Kryteon
    Are you in the service? I get it for a military members stand piont. From a ordinary person, they are an infringment of my civil liberties! It sounds horrible but its what makes us strong! Besides the attack on 9/11 was either completely an inside job.....or........the only thing the Patriot ACT does is TAKE! It doesn't give me any security...my 12ga. Does....it doesn't do anything but take. Are you saying that this has kept America more safe? Nope....ok then what about the cristmas day "underwere bomber" help from our gov. The x-mas tree bomber in Portland. The fbi self incriminated themselfs stating that the entraped him.....the young kid in N.C. same thing!....just saying bro..... wake up

    P.S. sorry for typos and miss spells....on my phone....and a little angry....I'm over it....
    FEG~PA 63......i call it the noisy cricket....little gun huge friggin BANG**

  13. #13
    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Lake Stevens, WA
    Posts
    400
    Speaking of good quotes....

    "[On ancient Athens]: In the end, more than freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all – security, comfort, and freedom. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again. "
    — Edward Gibbon

  14. #14
    Regular Member BigIrish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    edmonds, wa, ,
    Posts
    76

    Thumbs up

    Fantastic quote, and thought on THE TRUTH!
    FEG~PA 63......i call it the noisy cricket....little gun huge friggin BANG**

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gig Harbor, Washington, USA
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by BigIrish View Post
    Are you in the service? I get it for a military members stand piont. From a ordinary person, they are an infringment of my civil liberties! It sounds horrible but its what makes us strong! Besides the attack on 9/11 was either completely an inside job.....or........the only thing the Patriot ACT does is TAKE! It doesn't give me any security...my 12ga. Does....it doesn't do anything but take. Are you saying that this has kept America more safe? Nope....ok then what about the cristmas day "underwere bomber" help from our gov. The x-mas tree bomber in Portland. The fbi self incriminated themselfs stating that the entraped him.....the young kid in N.C. same thing!....just saying bro..... wake up

    P.S. sorry for typos and miss spells....on my phone....and a little angry....I'm over it....
    I did my time in the Army. 8th Infantry 1972-1975 to be exact.

    I understand the natural tendency to oppose the Patriot Act. I would ask three things:

    1. What exactly has changed in your everyday life because of the Patriot Act?
    2. Are you willing to personally except the consequences for its repeal?
    3. How would you protect the counrty from radical Islamic or other terrorists?

    It's fun to ponder things intellectually. But in the real world it means nothing when the metal meets the meat.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    Kryteon

  16. #16
    Regular Member Gilead_Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    mid-world (somewhere between tacoma and seattle)
    Posts
    80
    I understand the natural tendency to oppose the Patriot Act. I would ask three things:

    1. What exactly has changed in your everyday life because of the Patriot Act?
    2. Are you willing to personally except the consequences for its repeal?
    3. How would you protect the counrty from radical Islamic or other terrorists?


    1. not much... but I feel better about habeous corpus (sp?) right at the moment...
    2.yes...
    3. if I came across anyone, not just a radical islamic, in the process of commiting a terrorist act, I would do whatever was in my power to stop it... wouldn't you?
    I aim with my eye... I shoot with my mind... I kill with my heart....
    - The Gunslinger's Litany (paraphrased)

    It has been brought to my attention that the stick figure decals on
    the back windows of vehicles are NOT pedestrian 'kill' scores, but are
    actually meant to represent family members. I'll be removing mine
    ASAP to avoid any further confusion.........

    First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gig Harbor, Washington, USA
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilead_Gunslinger View Post
    I understand the natural tendency to oppose the Patriot Act. I would ask three things:

    1. What exactly has changed in your everyday life because of the Patriot Act?
    2. Are you willing to personally except the consequences for its repeal?
    3. How would you protect the counrty from radical Islamic or other terrorists?


    1. not much... but I feel better about habeous corpus (sp?) right at the moment...
    2.yes...
    3. if I came across anyone, not just a radical islamic, in the process of commiting a terrorist act, I would do whatever was in my power to stop it... wouldn't you?
    I think there's a lot of misunderstanding on what the Patriot Act can and cannot do, the safeguards in place to protect individual rights, and what it has done to guard the U.S.

    http://www.askheritage.org/what-are-...e-patriot-act/

    Some of these misunderstandings are niave, (no offense intended), and maybe even dangerous.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    Kryteon

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wFDTAUXm0Q

    "....other purposes ....."
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 02-12-2011 at 09:54 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Regular Member BigIrish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    edmonds, wa, ,
    Posts
    76

    My opinion is....

    1: you mentioned "roving wire taps" that is (just by the numbers) is one area it has effected my life. I'd like to add that I know this implies so much in as " well why would you care, if you have nothing to hide" I dont, and intend to keep it that way. Its not the point of hiding anything. It is that I feel this is any example you can see and touch of how Gov. Encroches on your life. I will list examles if needed?

    2: am I willing to accept responsability? Yes I am. I feel an obligation to do so. I also feel the same about big government taking away civil protectors like Habeous Corpus. (Wich was not set to "sunset" yet...I.e. still by by..)

    3: first. Its not just islamic extreamists......load of poo.....secondly I would help to pass legislation barring extremist from entering the U.S. entirerly. And the people that are know to be "homegrown" i'd alreadry have recived promission from a Judge to survielle them. Do some reserch on these "terror plots" that the F.B.I. thworted....by entrapment ( self omitted ) or why eyewitness's to the "undewhere bomber" have come forth to testify that they witnessed a State Dartment Official ushering this bomber threw security!!!!!!.... these witnesses are lawers...they understand the ramifications of lying under oath and perjuring a police statment ect... or how the Portland Or. X-mas tree bomber was supplied the bomb and detination device....the F.B.I. statment stated that exactly.....sure it shows intent. But why then did they mold this YOUNG man into an extreamist and supply him with an F.B.I. mentor?? Who taught him how to make bombs!!!...you have got to be kidding me right??

    So where is your leg to stand on now? Don't get me wrong....I like pirates

    And I hope that you know that this only comes from a well intentiond place. We are all gentelmen here. So pleas don't take any of this personal either.
    Last edited by BigIrish; 02-12-2011 at 10:05 PM. Reason: typos
    FEG~PA 63......i call it the noisy cricket....little gun huge friggin BANG**

  20. #20
    Regular Member BigIrish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    edmonds, wa, ,
    Posts
    76

    That is one persons opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryteon View Post
    I think there's a lot of misunderstanding on what the Patriot Act can and cannot do, the safeguards in place to protect individual rights, and what it has done to guard the U.S.

    http://www.askheritage.org/what-are-...e-patriot-act/

    Some of these misunderstandings are niave, (no offense intended), and maybe even dangerous.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    Kryteon
    Ask who the writer works for?
    Who funds the webpage?
    What are they're politicol veiws?
    Ask who does over sight on the that court?
    What are they're politicol motives?
    Whats they're track record?
    Ect....ect....

    And when did big government get in the habit of telling the truth
    FEG~PA 63......i call it the noisy cricket....little gun huge friggin BANG**

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gig Harbor, Washington, USA
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by BigIrish View Post
    1: you mentioned "roving wire taps" that is (just by the numbers) is one area it has effected my life. I'd like to add that I know this implies so much in as " well why would you care, if you have nothing to hide" I dont, and intend to keep it that way. Its not the point of hiding anything. It is that I feel this is any example you can see and touch of how Gov. Encroches on your life. I will list examles if needed?

    2: am I willing to accept responsability? Yes I am. I feel an obligation to do so. I also feel the same about big government taking away civil protectors like Habeous Corpus. (Wich was not set to "sunset" yet...I.e. still by by..)

    3: first. Its not just islamic extreamists......load of poo.....secondly I would help to pas legislation barring extremist from entering the U.S. entirerly. And the people that are know to be "homegrown" i'd alreadry have recived promission from a Judge to survielle them. Do some reserch on these "terror plots" that the F.B.I. thworted....by entrapment ( self omitted ) or why eyewitness's have come forth to testify that the witnessed a State Dartment Official ushering this bomber threw security.... these witnesses are lawers...they understand the ramifications of lying under oath and perjuring a police statment ect... or how the Portland Or. X-mas tree bomber was supplied the bomb and detination device....the F.B.I. statment stated that exactly.....

    So where is your leg to stand on now? Don't get me wrong....I like pirates

    And I hope that you know that this only comes from a well intentiond place. We are all gentelmen here. So pleas don't take any of this personal either.
    1. Having nothing to hide is not the issue, that's why I didn't mention it. You did. It's widely known that terrorists switch cell phones often. The Patriot Act allows roving wire taps under very stringent conditions.

    2. By personal responsibility for the consequences, I was talking about personal responsibility for innocent lives lost in a terror attack because the Patriot Act was repealed. It's small comfort to the families of the victims that their phones aren't being tapped but they're loved ones are dead.

    3. I said Islamic extremists and OTHER terrorists. Not just Jhadists. I'll see your antecdotes and raise you two more. If we play the game of anecdotal one-upmanship we'll never get anywhere. While I agree with some of your ideas for stopping terror attacks on the U.S. they leave way to many holes and gaps in our defenses.

    Still standing on both legs. Thanks for asking!

    I have a thick skin. I don't take anything written on the Internet personally. The one who gets personal first.... loses.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    Kryteon

  22. #22
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Terra, Sol
    Posts
    2,779
    The link you provided has a huge ad hawking memberships and talking heads.

    Propaganda is lame.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gig Harbor, Washington, USA
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    The link you provided has a huge ad hawking memberships and talking heads.

    Propaganda is lame.
    The Heritage Foundation is a well known and highly read Conservative think tank. But it's only one source of information. There are many others, I just used that link because I assumed (and we know what assumed does) most people here would be familiar with it.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    Kryteon

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,201
    And who watches the watchers?!?
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  25. #25
    Regular Member BigIrish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    edmonds, wa, ,
    Posts
    76

    Thumbs up lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryteon View Post
    1. Having nothing to hide is not the issue, that's why I didn't mention it. You did. It's widely known that terrorists switch cell phones often. The Patriot Act allows roving wire taps under very stringent conditions.

    2. By personal responsibility for the consequences, I was talking about personal responsibility for innocent lives lost in a terror attack because the Patriot Act was repealed. It's small comfort to the families of the victims that their phones aren't being tapped but they're loved ones are dead.

    3. I said Islamic extremists and OTHER terrorists. Not just Jhadists. I'll see your antecdotes and raise you two more. If we play the game of anecdotal one-upmanship we'll never get anywhere. While I agree with some of your ideas for stopping terror attacks on the U.S. they leave way to many holes and gaps in our defenses.

    Still standing on both legs. Thanks for asking!

    I have a thick skin. I don't take anything written on the Internet personally. The one who gets personal first.... loses.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    Kryteon
    Lol...I'm glad your skin is thick friend. And that your leg is still in action...I do seceed in respect to mis quotations. Haisty reading.

    There are zero condolences you can give a family.

    My opinion is that there is ZERO oversight on using WARRENTLESS wire taps.
    I feel that threw documents I have read and articals I have read that have helped form MY opinion on the spectrums of what Government agenccies use to clasiffy a "terrorist" is too broud sweeping to include you and I and EVERYONE on this forum as "low level domestic terrorist" its all over they're ( gov ) documents. Opinion. Writtings ect....
    And like you say
    Its my opinion and I could be wrong.

    And I won't try to one up'ya anymore either.

    I do thow urge you to, wile doing reserch; use multipul sources and view points. I feel it is the only way to conduct a educated, sientific form of forming AN opinion on a subject.
    I've enjoyed our banter, it has been a good conversation

    please excuse typos...on my phone
    Last edited by BigIrish; 02-12-2011 at 10:44 PM.
    FEG~PA 63......i call it the noisy cricket....little gun huge friggin BANG**

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •