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Thread: bump fire?

  1. #1
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    bump fire?

    other than being expensive, what kind of damage can it do to the firearm?

  2. #2
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    It's no different than firing the weapon really fast the conventional way so other than overheating there isn't much of a risk of damage. I do consider it slightly unsafe and a waste of ammo but that's just my opinion.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugglzo View Post
    other than being expensive, what kind of damage can it do to the firearm?
    Why would it damage a weapon?

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Not going to hurt anything, but what's the purpose of doing it? I understand some Bulgarian (I think) made SKS rifles had a problem where they were cooking off several rounds as they were being chambered due to extreme heat retention. Essentially, a three shot burst semi-auto rifle! They were using Ruskkie crap ammo, too, so could be primer/powder related. Got someone's attention.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Not going to hurt anything, but what's the purpose of doing it? I understand some Bulgarian (I think) made SKS rifles had a problem where they were cooking off several rounds as they were being chambered due to extreme heat retention. Essentially, a three shot burst semi-auto rifle! They were using Ruskkie crap ammo, too, so could be primer/powder related. Got someone's attention.
    I was under the impression that, generally, when an SKS goes "full-auto", its a result of their well-known tendency to slam-fire.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I was under the impression that, generally, when an SKS goes "full-auto", its a result of their well-known tendency to slam-fire.
    Yeah, but this was supposed to be from rounds cooking off. I would guess the ammo, as it was Russkie surplus from the '50s, from what I read. And heat retention was the cause due to the cheap metal the Bulgarians used for the receiver. Probably was fired a lot and heated up from that.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Grimes's Avatar
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    1.) It wastes ammo

    2.) It looks stupid

    3.) It makes us gun owners look like we are unsafe and then people think we shouldn't own them

    4.) It can be dangerous if you don't know how to control it

    5.) There is a slight chance it can damage the firearm if the round fires without the bolt being fully locked down

    6.) The hammer can follow the bolt carrier and not fire the round

    7.) Read steps 1-6 again


    Gunslinger, actually combloc milsurp firearms are often higher quality than commercial firearms.

    The only reason why the SKS can "slam fire" is if the owner does not clean it.
    Last edited by Grimes; 02-13-2011 at 11:10 AM.
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  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimes View Post
    The only reason why the SKS can "slam fire" is if the owner does not clean it.
    Considering that original SKSs had a return spring and wouldn't slam fire when dirty, and considering the SKS is not a gun which is usually intended, or even designed, to be fastidiously maintained in the first place, that "only reason" seems like a pretty big deal to me.

    Also considering a return spring can be added to any SKS...

  9. #9
    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    I've shot com bloc ammo for decades and have never had any do anything but go bang. If I had to personally have a "crap" category it would just include Federal and Corbon rounds. Federal Kaboomed one of my glocks with a too thin case web in their hydrashock 40 cal round. (they have since redesigned it quietly) Corbon sold me a box of .380 self defense ammo that had 6 rounds with no powder! BANG, BANG, pop. Not good in a self defense situation. IMHO I think at least half of your practice should be with your carry ammo of the same lot number that you will stake your life on. Price be damned. Oh, and bump firing is silly.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    The SKS's that were going full auto were the non russian ones without the firing pin spring that were being shot with NON Combloc ammo. The American made ammo was causing the deaths and accidents. All Combloc ammo has a hard military grade primer. The American made commercial ammo is made with a thin primer. The guy who died from what I heard, racked a American 7.62x39mm round into the chamber of a SKS with the free floating pin at the range with a full magazine. The rifle went full auto and he let go of the rifle and blew half his head off. Just shoot mil spec or buy a spring kit/pin to avoid this.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Grimes's Avatar
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    Guys, many of you have wrong information about the SKS.

    The Russians only had a return spring for the firing pin for 2 years of production (1949 and 1950). The rest of the years had the free floating firing pin. The "problem" was not the free floating firing pin or what country made the rifle, it was that people were shooting the crap out of it, not cleaning, then shooting american made ammo with the soft primer.

    Any weapon must be maintained, no matter what conditions its in, or it will fail someway.

    There are many firarms with a free floating firing pin (The M1 garand, M1 carbine, AK47, etc.). Again, it was nothing wrong with the design, it was that people were not cleaning regularly after shooting or they didn't clean it properly after they bought it, so it was filled still with cosmoline.
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  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimes View Post
    There are many firarms with a free floating firing pin (The M1 garand, M1 carbine, AK47, etc.). Again, it was nothing wrong with the design, it was that people were not cleaning regularly after shooting or they didn't clean it properly after they bought it, so it was filled still with cosmoline.
    Something "wrong" with the design, no.

    The best possible design? Also no. Especially when you consider that the SKS actually was designed with the firing pin return spring.

    Especially in the context of a U.S. military rifle, I am inclined to argue that our government has no business designing a standard infantry rifle which is not equally useful in the hands of citizens. A lack of firing pin return spring might seem like a tolerable design in a solely military setting, but in a civilian context it is a ludicrously unsafe design. You simply cannot rely on people not to use ammo which is considered interchangeable in one gun when every one else does it with other guns.

    In the context of civilian ownership, lack of a firing pin return spring is slightly more of an issue than "oh, well, I didn't clean it, so it jammed." I have several guns which might, occasionally, jam when seriously dirty. I would be very uncomfortable with any gun in my collection which might suddenly go into full-auto because of some grime and a primer which is "too soft".

    Actually, I've made the following argument before, and I'm inclined to make it again:

    Any firearm design which allows a firing pin to strike an exposed primer, and relies totally on that primer's hardness to avoid discharge, is of negligently unsatisfactory design, is totally inappropriate in a civilian setting, and is therefore not an appropriate weapon for the US government to manufacture as a standard infantry rifle.

    I mean, is it really that hard to add a spring? Or, in the case of the SKS, to not remove a spring which was supposed to be there in the first place? The answer is, no, it is not. And yet so many folks rush to defend such a sloppy design oversight, almost as some kind of intentional design feature.

    It is foolish to imagine that a rifle will only be used in a military setting (this has literally never been true about any rifles), and I would argue that any designer who makes such an omission is guilty of negligence with regard to the safety of the eventual civilian owners of the machine he has designed.
    Last edited by marshaul; 02-14-2011 at 11:38 AM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    No return spring on a Model 94. Mine is 1976 vintage in .30-30. Surprised me after being used to pistols with inertia firing pins for so long. No problem with it at all, but at first I thought something was missing. After all, it is the iconic American hunting rifle design.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    No return spring on a Model 94. Mine is 1976 vintage in .30-30. Surprised me after being used to pistols with inertia firing pins for so long. No problem with it at all, but at first I thought something was missing. After all, it is the iconic American hunting rifle design.
    I'd actually be interested to take a look at that design. Maybe I can play with one at some point.

    I'd be interested to know how safety is achieved using commercial primers.

    Have you explored whether the firing pin is able to "bump" against the primer during chambering?

  15. #15
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I'd actually be interested to take a look at that design. Maybe I can play with one at some point.

    I'd be interested to know how safety is achieved using commercial primers.

    Have you explored whether the firing pin is able to "bump" against the primer during chambering?
    It's not. Normal seating is no further than flush with the front of the block with the hammer down as you work the lever. There is enough resistance that it takes a firm strike on the firing pin to punch the primer. When working the lever, the pin comes back and extends into the rear of the block about 1/8". Even if flush at the rear, the hammer inertia fires the round. Has worked for Winchester for over 145 years, so I guess they knew what they were doing. Half cock is the only safety on my model, which I like.

    Get one. Model 94 is the most beautiful rifle ever made, imo. Only the Hi-Power matches its elegance. Just my 2C, but I've wanted one since I had a toy "Winchester" when I was about 10. And nothing wrong with a .30-30 for PD in a short barrelled lever gun.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    It's not. Normal seating is no further than flush with the front of the block with the hammer down as you work the lever. There is enough resistance that it takes a firm strike on the firing pin to punch the primer. When working the lever, the pin comes back and extends into the rear of the block about 1/8". Even if flush at the rear, the hammer inertia fires the round. Has worked for Winchester for over 145 years, so I guess they knew what they were doing. Half cock is the only safety on my model, which I like.
    It probably helps that the gun is a manual repeater, which means the bolt moves relatively slower than autoloaders, which is where most issues with un-sprung floating firing pins seem to arise.

    Get one. Model 94 is the most beautiful rifle ever made, imo. Only the Hi-Power matches its elegance. Just my 2C, but I've wanted one since I had a toy "Winchester" when I was about 10. And nothing wrong with a .30-30 for PD in a short barrelled lever gun.
    That is a rousing endorsement. Looks like I have something else to add to my list.

  17. #17
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    i don't understand bump fire either. my friends rifle doesn't function right after bumping two mags, thats why i ask

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