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Thread: Sometimes we have it good in WA

  1. #1
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Sometimes we have it good in WA

    Hi guys I recently just got back from Michigan, if you all think its cold here try -20! I was staying with the girlfriends family who's gun collection I think would put most of anyone's here to shame. I spent a lot of time talking with the dad who CC about gun rights and carry laws. I know we may not always feel this way but we have it a lot easier up here than the folks in Michigan. Her dad told me OC is legal in Michigan but is not socially acceptable. He described to me a scene full of not just police harassment but also citizen harassment and abuse. He also told me in Michigan you have to attend a class and pass a test before you can get your cpl. Perhaps the biggest surprise to me was when he told me due to a increase in church shootings you can no longer legally carry into a church, regardless of having you cpl. Just a good reminder to show me how cozy we have it
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

  2. #2
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    Perhaps the biggest surprise to me was when he told me due to a increase in church shootings you can no longer legally carry into a church, regardless of having you cpl. Just a good reminder to show me how cozy we have it
    Apparently they too haven't figured out that those who shoot up public places often don't give a @#$% about any rules, signs, or laws. Once again, make sure EVERYONE is defenseless. Maybe they should try another approach. Signs everywhere that say "Legally carried firearms welcome!"
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  3. #3
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    Hi guys I recently just got back from Michigan, if you all think its cold here try -20! I was staying with the girlfriends family who's gun collection I think would put most of anyone's here to shame. I spent a lot of time talking with the dad who CC about gun rights and carry laws. I know we may not always feel this way but we have it a lot easier up here than the folks in Michigan. Her dad told me OC is legal in Michigan but is not socially acceptable. He described to me a scene full of not just police harassment but also citizen harassment and abuse. He also told me in Michigan you have to attend a class and pass a test before you can get your cpl. Perhaps the biggest surprise to me was when he told me due to a increase in church shootings you can no longer legally carry into a church, regardless of having you cpl. Just a good reminder to show me how cozy we have it
    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

    Your friend forgot about mentioning the part I bolded.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ymc...0AND%20license

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    I am from Michigan... I actually know of a church that the pastor carries 100% of the time. He also rides a motorcycle. My dad used to go there.


    I never had a problem carrying there. Though just like anywhere you get weird looks from time to time. I never got bothered though. I did have LEOs ask a few times if I really needed to carry a gun. I said "yeah, how a bout you?" That was always the end of it.

  5. #5
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Wouldn't it blow your mind to find out that this little old lady carries a 1911 in her purse when she goes to church?



    Wonder how many like her do carry their departed husband's old "Army Pistol".
    Last edited by amlevin; 02-10-2011 at 05:22 PM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  6. #6
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Brendel View Post
    I am from Michigan...
    Me too...from Kalamazoo

  7. #7
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    I lived in Howell, Pinckney, Brighton area. Been in Kzoo alot! Been here almost 5.5 years though. Maybe they have gotten less tolerable to open carry.

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    Regular Member reillo584's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    ...Maybe they should try another approach. Signs everywhere that say "Legally carried firearms welcome!"
    Totally agree...

  9. #9
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    We where a little outside traverse city if that helps not sure if that area is better or worse than the rest of the state
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

  10. #10
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    i study CPLs alot!
    one advantage to being a michigan resident is that their CPL is the best in the USA!!!
    we could get our washington, and utah, and florida, and wont cover as many states
    as a michigan resident, if i get a nevada id be closer, but their is no way for us
    to CC in colorado, or south carolina.
    and another thing, since my folded stock AK is 26 to 30 inches long,
    i would have to register it as a hand gun, called a michigan pistol.
    then i could carry it in the car, loaded! even if i didnt fold it.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    i study CPLs alot!
    one advantage to being a michigan resident is that their CPL is the best in the USA!!!
    we could get our washington, and utah, and florida, and wont cover as many states
    as a michigan resident, if i get a nevada id be closer, but their is no way for us
    to CC in colorado, or south carolina.
    Why?

    Is it because they have the most requirements to get theirs? Age, classes, etc....

    Then it is not the best in the USA but the worst. Just a different way of thinking about a CPL.
    Live Free or Die!

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    MSP Concealed Pistol License Requirements (Michagan)

    Way to restrictive for the Constitution and my taste....


    Concealed Pistol License Requirements

    A. State Requirements Applicants for a Michigan Concealed Pistol License must:
    1. Be at least 21 years of age
    2. Be a citizen of the United States or an alien lawfully admitted into the United States
    3. Be a resident of the State of Michigan for at least 6 months prior to application. An applicant is a state resident if one of the following applies:
    • The applicant possesses a valid, lawfully obtained Michigan driver's license or state identification card
    • The applicant is lawfully registered to vote in Michigan
    • The applicant is on active duty status with the United States Armed Forces and stationed outside of Michigan, but Michigan is the home of record
    • The applicant is on active duty status with the United States Armed Forces and is permanently stationed in Michigan, but the home of record is another state
    Note: The 6-month residency requirement may be waived by the concealed pistol licensing board for new residents licensed by another state.
    4. Have successfully completed a pistol safety training course
    5. Not be subject to any of the following:
    • An order requiring involuntary hospitalization or alternative treatment
    • An order finding legal incapacitation
    • A finding of not guilty by reason of insanity
    6. Not be subject to a conditional bond release prohibiting purchase or possession of a firearm
    7. Not be subject to a personal protection order
    8. Not be prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under MCL 750.224f
    9. Have never been convicted of a felony in Michigan or elsewhere
    10. Have no felony charge pending in Michigan or elsewhere
    11. Have not been dishonorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces
    12. Have not been convicted of one of the following misdemeanors in the 8 years immediately preceding the date of application:
    • Failing to stop when involved in a personal injury accident, MCL 257.617a
    • Operating while intoxicated, second offense, MCL 257.625(9)(b)
    • Drunk driving, commercial vehicle, MCL 257.625m(4)
    • Reckless driving, MCL 257.626
    • Driving while license suspended or revoked, second or subsequent offense, MCL 257.904
    • Operating aircraft while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a controlled substance with prior conviction, MCL 259.185
    • Hindering or obstructing certain persons performing official weights and measures duties, MCL 290.629
    • Hindering, obstructing, assaulting, or committing bodily injury upon director or authorized representative, MCL 290.650
    • Operating an ORV under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a controlled substance, second or subsequent offense, MCL 324.81134(5)-(6)
    • Operating a snowmobile under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a controlled substance, second or subsequent offense, MCL 324.82127 punishable under section MCL 324.82128(1)(b) or (c)
    • Operating a vessel under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a controlled substance, second or subsequent offense, MCL 324.80176 punishable under MCL 324.80177(1)(b)
    • Possessing a controlled substance, controlled substance analogue, or prescription form, MCL 333.7403.
    • Operating a locomotive under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a controlled substance, or while visibly impaired, MCL 462.353(4)
    • Displaying sexually explicit matter to minors, MCL 722.677
    • Assault or domestic assault, MCL 750.81
    • Aggravated assault or aggravated domestic assault, MCL 750.81a
    • Breaking and entering or entering without breaking, MCL 750.115
    • Fourth-degree child abuse, MCL 750.136b
    • Accosting, enticing, or soliciting a child for immoral purposes, MCL 750.145a
    • Vulnerable adult abuse, MCL 750.145n
    • Solicitation to commit a felony, MCL 750.157b
    • Impersonating a peace officer or medical examiner, MCL 750.215
    • Illegal sale of a firearm or ammunition, MCL 750.223
    • Illegal use or sale of a self-defense spray, MCL 750.224d
    • Sale or possession of a switchblade, MCL 750.226a
    • Improper transportation of a loaded firearm, MCL 750.227c
    • Failure to have a pistol inspected, MCL 750.228
    • Accepting a pistol in pawn, MCL 750.229
    • Failure to register the purchase of a firearm or a firearm component, MCL 750.232
    • Improperly obtaining a pistol, making a false statement on an application to purchase a pistol, or using false identification to purchase a pistol, MCL 750.232a
    • Intentionally aiming a firearm without malice, MCL 750.233
    • Intentionally discharging a firearm aimed without malice, MCL 750.234
    • Possessing a firearm on prohibited premises, MCL 750.234d
    • Brandishing a firearm in public, MCL 750.234e
    • Possession of a firearm by an individual less than 18 years of age, MCL 750.234f
    • Intentionally discharging a firearm aimed without malice causing injury, MCL 750.235
    • Parent of a minor who possessed a firearm in a weapon-free school zone, MCL 750.235a
    • Setting a spring gun or other device, MCL 750.236
    • Possessing a firearm while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a drug, MCL 750.237
    • Weapon-free school zone violation, MCL 750.237a
    • Indecent exposure, MCL 750.335a
    • Stalking, MCL 750.411h
    • Fourth-degree criminal sexual conduct, MCL 750.520e
    • Reckless, careless, or negligent use of a firearm resulting in injury or death, MCL 752.861
    • Careless, reckless, or negligent use of a firearm resulting in property damage, MCL 752.862
    • Reckless discharge of a firearm, MCL 752.863a
    Note: The applicant must not have violated a law of the United States, another state, or a local unit of government of this state or another state substantially corresponding to a violation described above.
    13. Have not been convicted of one of the following misdemeanors in the 3 years immediately preceding the date of application:
    • Operating under the influence, MCL 257.625
    • Refusal of commercial vehicle operator to submit to a chemical test, MCL 257.625a
    • Ignition interlock device reporting violation, MCL 257.625k
    • Circumventing an ignition interlocking device, MCL 257.625l
    • Operating a commercial vehicle with alcohol content, MCL 257.625m(3)
    • Operating an aircraft under the influence, MCL 259.185
    • Operating an ORV under the influence, MCL 324.81134
    • Operating an ORV while visibly impaired, MCL 324.81135
    • Operating a snowmobile under the influence, MCL 324.82127
    • Controlled substances, MCL 333.7401 to 333.7461
    • Operating a locomotive under the influence, MCL 462.353(3)
    • Disorderly person, MCL 750.167
    • Embezzlement, MCL 750.174
    • False pretenses with intent to defraud, MCL 750.218
    • Larceny, MCL 750.356
    • Second-degree retail fraud, MCL 750.356d
    • Larceny, vacant building, MCL 750.359
    • Larceny, by conversion, MCL 750.362
    • Larceny, defrauding lessor, MCL 750.362a
    • Malicious destruction of property, MCL 750.377a
    • Malicious destruction of real property, MCL 750.380
    • Receiving stolen property, MCL 750.535
    • Malicious use of telephones, MCL 750.540e
    Note: The applicant must not have violated a law of the United States, another state, or a local unit of government of this state or another state substantially corresponding to a violation described above.
    14. Have not been found guilty but mentally ill of any crime and has not offered a plea of not guilty of, or been acquitted of, any crime by reason of insanity
    15. Have never been subject to an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to a mental illness
    16. Not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made, regardless of whether he or she is receiving treatment
    17. Not be under a court order of legal incapacity in this state or elsewhere
    18. Not be detrimental to the safety of his or her self or any other person if issued a Concealed Pistol License
    B. Federal Requirements
    Pursuant to MCL 28.426, a Concealed Pistol License may not be issued to a person prohibited under federal law from possessing or transporting a firearm. The federal requirements to possess or transport a firearm include that the applicant:
    1. Not have been convicted in any court of, or under indictment for, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year (i.e. felony, or any misdemeanor punishable by more than 2 years)
    2. Not be a fugitive of justice
    3. Not be an unlawful user of, or addicted to, any controlled substance, as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)
    4. Not be adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution
    5. Not be an alien who is illegally or unlawfully in the United States
    6. Not be discharged from the United States Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions
    7. Not have renounced his or her citizenship
    8. Not be subject to a court order prohibiting harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner or from engaging in other conduct that would place the partner or child in reasonable fear of bodily injury.
    9. Not be convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

    Live Free or Die!

  13. #13
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    For me, I can't see any benefit to a Michigan "CPL" as I don't intend on traveling there. All the other states I visit are already covered for me except CA and NV.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  14. #14
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,

    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    For me, I can't see any benefit to a Michigan "CPL" as I don't intend on traveling there. All the other states I visit are already covered for me except CA and NV.
    and michigan honors our CPL.

    way to bring on the cites, gogo!

    my point is only based on the premise, of already being a resident of michigan, cause
    thats where you already work and live, and plan to stay and be there!!
    so their CPL is worse as far as getting it, and the bunch of restrictions, and hoops for jumping,
    but it is shall issue, and has the most reciprocity of any permit in the US, including nevada, colorado and south carolina!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Way to restrictive for the Constitution and my taste....


    Concealed Pistol License Requirements
    ...

    12. Have not been convicted of one of the following misdemeanors in the 8 years immediately preceding the date of application:
    • ...
    • Failure to register the purchase of a firearm or a firearm component, MCL 750.232
      ...
    • Possessing a firearm on prohibited premises, MCL 750.234d
      ...
    Wow. Pretty easy to become prohibited for a period of 8 years!
    IBTL

  16. #16
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    Rather than bashing the great state of Michigan, perhaps we should find something to appreciate about its laws -- here's a start: Michigan was one of only TWO states (the other being Indiana) that originally recognized Washington state's CPL for many, many years. It's only been in the past few years that any states other than those two recognized our CPLs.

    Sometimes I think that many of us in the original "shall-issue" state (blessed with, believe it or not, at least some acceptance of open carry) forget that for most citizens in our country, state laws allowing carry (open and concealed) of firearms are a relatively recent phenomenon.

    I grew up in Michigan. I can tell you that the gun culture there is actually probably older and much more entrenched than the gun culture in this state. Regrettably, many of Michigan's current gun laws don't reflect that at all. Having to obtain a permit to buy a handgun from one's local PD/SO was a major PITA, although many counties did have de facto shall issue even when the state law was "may issue" in nature.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterMcGavin View Post
    Wow. Pretty easy to become prohibited for a period of 8 years!

    Even easier to be disqualified for three years.

    13. Have not been convicted of one of the following misdemeanors in the 3 years immediately preceding the date of application:

    Malicious use of telephones
    MCL 750.540e

    (1) A person is guilty of a misdemeanor who maliciously uses any service provided by a telecommunications service provider with intent to terrorize, frighten, intimidate, threaten, harass, molest, or annoy another person, or to disturb the peace and quiet of another person by any of the following:

    (d) Using vulgar, indecent, obscene, or offensive language or suggesting any lewd or lascivious act in the course of a conversation or message through the use of a telecommunications service or device.
    (e) Repeatedly initiating a telephone call and, without speaking, deliberately hanging up or breaking the telephone connection as or after the telephone call is answered.


    Disorderly person, MCL 750.167

    (1) A person is a disorderly person if the person is any of the following:

    (b) A common prostitute.
    (c) A window peeper.
    (g) A vagrant.
    (h) A person found begging in a public place.
    (i) A person found loitering in a house of ill fame or prostitution or place where prostitution or lewdness is practiced, encouraged, or allowed.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  18. #18
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by END_THE_FED View Post
    Even easier to be disqualified for three years.

    13. Have not been convicted of one of the following misdemeanors in the 3 years immediately preceding the date of application:

    Malicious use of telephones
    MCL 750.540e

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

    (d) Using vulgar, indecent, obscene, or offensive language or suggesting any lewd or lascivious act in the course of a conversation or message through the use of a telecommunications service or device.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    ~~~~~~~~.
    Alec Baldwin will need to be careful when he leaves voice mail for his daughter if he's calling from Michigan. Come to think of it, there might be a few of us here that could be in violation of this provision from time to time. Wonder if it covers "Internet Posting"?
    Last edited by amlevin; 02-11-2011 at 08:57 AM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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