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Thread: Concealed Carry In Kentucky Without A License

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    Concealed Carry In Kentucky Without A License

    LEGISLATIVE ACTION ALERT

    SUPPORT HB 113 - http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/11RS/HB113.htm

    Rep. Mike Harmon from Danville, the sponsor of this new concealed carry bill, recently met with members of Take Back Kentucky, Campaign for Liberty and OpenCarry.org, and they fixed the language in the bill. The concerns we had with the bill were not intentional. They were mostly legalese. This is a good bill, and would add Kentucky to Vermont, Alaska, and Arizona as states that do not require a state issued license to practice the fundamental and unalienable right to keep and bear arms, regardless of whether a weapon is openly carried or concealed. We'd keep our existing concealed carry license for those who wanted reciprocity to carry concealed in other states.

    It's time for the calls to flood into the Capitol to support HB 113.

    Call the Legislative Message line in Frankfort: 1-800-372-7181 (Until 11 PM! No excuses!)

    The first Message is for YOUR representative, the House leadership, and the House Judiciary Committee: "Please support our Second Amendment Rights and pass HB 113; the Concealed Carry Bill"

    Second Message: Thank representative Mike Harmon for sponsoring HB 113



    BTW - Mike Harmon is the running mate of Phil Moffett, a pro-liberty (pro-2A!) candidate for governor in 2011.
    http://www.PhilMoffett.com

    BTW#2 - I'll have a table at the Lexington Gun Show on February 19th and 20th, promoting HB 113, the Kentucky Firearms Freedom Act, and Phil Moffett for governor. Come on by and say hi!

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    The States of: Montana, Utah, New Hampshire, AND Wyoming; are in a Race with Kentucky to become The Nations' 4th Constitutional Carry State!

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    So question, what does this mean for those 18-21? Right now that demographic can OC. If this passes, will only those 21+ be able to OC or CC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    So question, what does this mean for those 18-21? Right now that demographic can OC. If this passes, will only those 21+ be able to OC or CC?
    I see your point. Although the proposed bill only says 21 or older. I don't think it could be interpreted to legally change the age specifically for open carry as this would clearly violate Kentucky's constitution, being that the general assembly can only regulate concealed carry as it applies to adults (legally 18 or older).

    Just my take on it.

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    It's my understanding, after reading the bill and talking to the sponsor, Mike Harmon, that nothing changes for the existing open carry situation. HB 113 essentially removes the need for a license but mostly leaves concealed carry as it is. That's certainly the legislative intent, and after the input from Kentuckians For The Right To Bear Arms, Campaign For Liberty and OpenCarry.org, I think it's a lot closer to that intent, although the legalese is a bit tough for me to grok. The bill does stipulate 21 for concealed carry, though.

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    Nice work guys. I would think this would pass with no problems.

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    i just called, talked to a nice lady. she's sending my support to my local reps. and i thanked mike as well. i hope this passes, glad to see kentucky has pro gun people in politics.

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    I just sent an email thanking him for supporting the 2nd Amendment.

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    It will definitelybe interesting to see how this all plays out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flb_78 View Post
    I just sent an email thanking him for supporting the 2nd Amendment.
    and today he sent an email back thanking me.

    Thanks and God bless,

    Mike

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    When is this due to come up for vote?

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYKevin View Post
    When is this due to come up for vote?
    Odd numbered years are short sessions in Frankfort, so time is short. It comes up for a vote when the committee chair schedules it to come up for discussion and a vote. If passed out of the House committee, Greg Stumbo decides if/when it comes up for a floor vote in the House. If it passes the House, David Williams decides if/when it comes up for a floor vote in the Senate. If it passes the Senate, Governor Beshear decides whether to pass it (he probably would).

    The more pressure we bring to bear on our legislators, the sooner it's voted upon and the more likely it is to pass.

    In my experience, Kentucky has a lot of pro-gun voters, but very few pro-gun activists. We're a passive lot. We hope our legislators "give" us some pro-gun legislation, or don't "take away" too many of our gun rights. That's not how it's intended to work, and we won't get much of what we want if we sit back and hope for change. If we got serious, we could exert enough pressure to get A LOT of pro-gun legislation passed, but we don't seem to have TWO MINUTES to call Frankfort to demand good legislation. Instead, we hope others do it for us so we can reap the benefit. We allow a few anti-gun legislators from Louisville and Lexington (Darryl Owens, Mary Lou Marzian, Kathy Stein, Ruth-Ann Palumbo, Kelly Flood), to run rough shod over the vast majority of rural pro-gun legislators by abusing their committee chairmanship positions. We allow Senate President David Williams and Speaker of the House Greg Stumbo to pretend to be pro-gun moderates while working behind the scenes to make sure the bills die in committee, or are not called for a floor vote, or are called for a vote before the support has fully formed.

    Seriously! TWO MINUTES! Call, and get your friends and family to call! See the first post for details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty4Ever View Post
    It's my understanding, after reading the bill and talking to the sponsor, Mike Harmon, that nothing changes for the existing open carry situation. HB 113 essentially removes the need for a license but mostly leaves concealed carry as it is. That's certainly the legislative intent, and after the input from Kentuckians For The Right To Bear Arms, Campaign For Liberty and OpenCarry.org, I think it's a lot closer to that intent, although the legalese is a bit tough for me to grok. The bill does stipulate 21 for concealed carry, though.
    Liberty, one thing I remember reading and was curious if it stayed in the legislation. There was mention that one major thing it would change was the part of the law pertaining to employers not legally being allowed to stop OC in ypour POV while on company property. My understanding was that IF the Constitutional Carry passes, this would gain legal teeth allowing an employee to actively take legal actions against employers that break this law. Has this stayed the same?
    Last edited by neuroblades; 02-26-2011 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Correction is status of employee to employer.
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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroblades View Post
    Liberty, one thing I remember reading and was curious if it stayed in the legislation. There was mention that one major thing it would change was the part of the law pertaining to employers not legally being allowed to stop OC in your POV while on company property. My understanding was that IF the Constitutional Carry passes, this would gain legal teeth allowing an employee to actively take legal actions against employees that break this law. Has this stayed the same?
    This was a point of discussion during the conference call to understand the bill and fix any issues. The bill is complicated by the need to address several existing gun laws in Kentucky. The bill includes external references to those bills, often with lengthy passages struck through and much less text to replace it. Overall, the law is simplified (almost always a good thing), but the bill to reduce the legalese must contain the legalese that is being eliminated, so the bill is much more complex than it would be if the gun law complexity didn't previously exist. Our goal was to make sure that the good stuff (Castle law, concealed carry in your personally owned vehicle in an employer's parking lot) wasn't accidentally eliminated with the bad stuff. In short, it's not.

    Here's the relevant portion of the actual bill:

    Section 6. KRS 237.106 is amended to read as follows:
    (1) Any other statute to the contrary notwithstanding, no person, including but not limited to an employer, who is the owner, lessee, or occupant of real property shall prohibit any person who is legally entitled to possess a firearm from possessing a firearm, part of a firearm, ammunition, or ammunition component in a vehicle on the property.
    (2) A person, including but not limited to an employer, who owns, leases, or otherwise occupies real property may prevent a person who is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a firearm or ammunition from possessing a firearm or ammunition on the property.
    (3) Except for a person prohibited from possessing a firearm under Section 1 or 2 of this Act, any other statute to the contrary notwithstanding, a firearm may be removed from the vehicle or handled in the case of self-defense, defense of another, defense of property, or as authorized by the owner, lessee, or occupant of the property.
    (4) An employer, public or private, that fires, disciplines, demotes, or otherwise punishes an employee who is lawfully exercising a right guaranteed by this section and who is engaging in conduct in compliance with this statute shall be liable in civil damages. An employee may seek and the court shall grant an injunction against an employer who is violating the provisions of this section when it is found that the employee is in compliance with the provisions of this section.
    (5) Any person or organization, public or private, who violates or attempts to violate the provisions of this section may be subject to an action for appropriate relief, damage, or a combination thereof in a court of competent jurisdiction.
    Read the bill yourself, if you dare! The quoted portion above is most of page ten. I hate legalese.
    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/11RS/HB113/bill.doc

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    Done and the word is spread.

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    i just did it.

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    I couldn't get thew ones where i had to fill out a form, it kept saying an error message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boomer92266 View Post
    I couldn't get thew ones where i had to fill out a form, it kept saying an error message.
    It did for me too, probably just a glitch in the server.

    There is a 1 800 number on that same page you can call and leave a message.

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    As usual it looks like our legislators will do nothing. Time is running out and the bill (just like any other bill that means much of anything) is going nowhere. Really would like to know why our taxes are wasted on these people. I work in government and all I ever see is childish games and back stabbing between these people who supposedly represent the people of this state.

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    One of the bills that's probably going nowhere is a repeal of the legislation that greatly expanded the time the legislature is in session. There is a strong movement coalescing behind the increasingly popular opinion that the Kentucky Legislature is at best a waste of time, and at worst, a lot of money being spent to make the lives of Kentuckians worse, by taking away our liberty and charging us a lot of money that we don't have for this service.

    No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session.
    --- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty4Ever View Post
    One of the bills that's probably going nowhere is a repeal of the legislation that greatly expanded the time the legislature is in session. There is a strong movement coalescing behind the increasingly popular opinion that the Kentucky Legislature is at best a waste of time, and at worst, a lot of money being spent to make the lives of Kentuckians worse, by taking away our liberty and charging us a lot of money that we don't have for this service.

    No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session.
    --- Mark Twain
    Where are things standing as far as you've heard, Liberty? How about HB380? Const. Carry? Anything good to report?
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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    HB 380 would be great. I think the intention is to pass it to give some relief to Kentucky's coal industry. The urrent administration in DC has openly stated that their goal is to shut down the coal industry. They sound like someone running for city council who promises to shut down prostitution in the red light district. They're invoking some sort of moral authority. Coal is dirty. It's a sin. HB 380 would make ANYTHING made and sold in Kentucky immune from federal regulation. It seems to be modeled directly after the Kentucky Firearms Freedom Act, but the KFFA specifically applied to firearms, and the House Democrats got word of this, declared it to be a Republican bill (or worse, a TEA Party bill) and they shut it down last year and pretty well ignored it this year too. But HB 380 doesn't mention firearms, or coal, or sorghum, or any other specific product. It just makes the case that makes sense. Intrastate commerce isn't interstate commerce and it's none of the federal government's business. The bill was introduced by an eastern coal county representative who is a Democrat and it has broad support form Democrats. If we can push really hard and get Republicans to jump on board instead of blocking it because it's a Democratic bill, then we could get it passed and it would be the KFFA applied to all products!

    SB33 (the KFFA) and HB113 (the concealed carry without a license, aka "constitutional carry") both seem to be going nowhere in this short session. There isn't much time left. The Frankfort weasels seem to pass whatever they want whenever they can get around partisan gridlock, which is the only thing keeping us from drowning in a sea of bad laws as far as I can determine. They play politics with these bills, offering support on the bills to garner support (votes and campaign contributions) from us, without ever intending to pass the bills. Why should they? They can support them again next year and get more support from us.

    The fact is, unless we can marshal thousands of calls to our legislators, they'll largely ignore us and do whatever they want. I see the apathy when I have a gun rights table at gun shows. Probably 95% of the people are there to look at guns and don't care enough about gun rights to make a phone call. They buy guns and ammo and hope the politicians don't take them away. We've largely abdicated our birthright and don't deserve liberty. With an attitude like that, we deserve whatever the politicians do to us. Lick the boots of your lords and masters.

    On the plus side, there is one gun bill that is gaining traction.

    SUPPORT HB 313: INCREASE CONCEALED CARRY RIGHTS WITHOUT A LICENSE

    This bill will allow Fish & Wildlife officers to concealed carry as well as let citizens carry concealed in a car in the console between the seats, or any enclosure installed as original equipment by the manufacturer, without a concealed carry license. Currently, the law allows a firearm to be carried in the glove box ONLY. Any other concealed location inside a car requires a concealed carry license. This bill has good sponsorship and a good chance of passing.

    Call the Legislative Message line in Frankfort: 1-800-372-7181

    Tell the operator: "I would like to leave a message for my senator and all Senate Leadership. Please protect our second amendment rights, pass HB 313"

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    Looks like our senate is going to tie HB-313 up in red tape. They only have a couple days left and they have sent it to judiciary. Maybe they will prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

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    We have friends in the Senate Judiciary Committee. The House Elections Committee, on the other hand, is where good bills like the Kentucky Firearms Freedom Act go to die.

    Time is short. Passing anything good is a long shot.

    I wish we could come together around one good pro-gun bill a year and stay on that one until it's passed, and then do another one next year, until we get back our gun rights. We have WAY too little pro-gun support to spread our support among a bunch of bills every year.

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    UPDATE:

    HB313 passed the house 90-3 and is now heading to the Senate. Call now!

    Call the Legislative Message line in Frankfort: 1-800-372-7181

    Tell the operator: "I would like to leave a message for my senator and all Senate Leadership. Please protect our second amendment rights, pass HB 313"

    From the Kentucky Legislative Research Commission Website (News section):

    12:07 p.m.

    Gun rights bill passes 90-3 in House

    A 2nd amendment rights bill that would allow firearms or other deadly weapons to be kept in any closed compartment original to the vehicle has passed the Kentucky House.

    House Bill 313, sponsored by Rep. Will Coursey, D-Benton, was approved by a 90-3 vote and now goes to the Senate for consideration.

    Coursey cited a 2006 Kentucky Supreme Court that disqualified a vehicle’s console as a legal storage space for concealed deadly weapons as a reason for the bill. The ruling, he said, requires weapons to now be stored in one place—a vehicle’s glove compartment.

    “There are a number of automobiles today that don’t even have a glove compartment,” Coursey told the House.

    The measure would also allow state Fish and Wildlife department conservation officers and specific Fish and Wildlife administrators to carry concealed deadly weapons on the job.

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