Please help $upport Josh's case

well,,,

gogodawgs said:

I plan on contributing 10% of my return to this case.....

In my opinion this is a very important case to be won!

I hope I can get others to commit the same amount.

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I havent done my taxes yet, but,
i already donated, probably what will be about, 66 percent!

a bunch more will be going to michigan open carry, lillfreak66 got arrested yesterday,
in the library! i see a 42 usc 1983 case in the making.

and 3 cheers!! for all that are backing Joshs' appeal!

Money sent. Best of luck Josh!

funds enroute.

This could happen to anyone of us, we all should be able to give a little.

w07rolla said:

Hey everyone, time for an update...sorry about the delay been busy with classes. A few Fridays ago I met with Drew for the first time at our hearing. Unfortunately it was not a success! Drew can Probably provide better details than I can. After talking to Drew, I would like to continue to fight this, especially now that I'm at state level! Now I am trying to find a good appeal lawyer (I think that's what Drew called em), so that they can apply for the appeal...and hopefully accept it!

Josh

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Given this information I suggest that we freeze donations until we know Josh's next steps.
After olypendrew settles up if there is any money left over I'll hold it for Josh's appeal.

well,,,

gogodawgs said:

I plan on contributing 10% of my return to this case.....

In my opinion this is a very important case to be won!

I hope I can get others to commit the same amount.

Click to expand...

1245A Defender said:

I havent done my taxes yet, but,
i already donated, probably what will be about, 66 percent!

a bunch more will be going to michigan open carry, lillfreak66 got arrested yesterday,
in the library! i see a 42 usc 1983 case in the making.

and 3 cheers!! for all that are backing Joshs' appeal!

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finally did my taxes,,, got it in the mail on the 18th...
they didnt turn out the way i expected,,,,
so it turns out I donated $17.57 more than twice my refund!!!!
new math,,, thats 214 percent of my refund!

wonder if thats enough to get allen gotlieb?
go gettem Josh!!!

tap, tap, tap, tap.......

it has been 2 months since josh and drew lost an appeal to a trial that never should have happened.
suddenvalleygunner paid for the transcripts to that original trial where josh was originally found guilty of violating 9.41.270.
i think we all deserve to study those transcripts,
because WE paid for them with our donations.
this is no longer just joshs' case, this is our collective 2A rights, open carry rights, case!
their was a time this case could have been tossed, due to the PA going over 90 days in a speedy trial, but josh wanted the trial to carry the open carry torch forward for the sake of our rights.
i know we need to wait for the written ruling in this last appeal before we can start to study this lost appeal, but i can see no reason we cant study the original failed trial.

Drew? Josh? Beuler?

well,,,

No interest,,, anyone!

BTW Josh has not posted since may 9th...

Oh there is interest 1245A Defender just not from those involved, it is a shame, especially for those who donated if it is no more then a short update.

1245A Defender said:

No interest,,, anyone!

BTW Josh has not posted since may 9th...

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Bob, I am waiting as well. I would love to read the transcripts.

gogodawgs said:

Bob, I am waiting as well. I would love to read the transcripts.

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We may see them about the time that Devildog5's Audio Tape shows up.

Not really surprising, drew was on yesterday and still no comment, can you say typical attorney maneuver.
Devildog5 had something to hide, wondering what is up with Josh's case?

BigDave said:

Not really surprising, drew was on yesterday and still no comment, can you say typical attorney maneuver.
Devildog5 had something to hide, wondering what is up with Josh's case?

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Drew is anything but a "typical" attorney. He actually fully believes in the constitution and our natural rights. Unlike many of those attorneys who are ideological on the fake left and right.

sudden valley gunner said:

Drew is anything but a "typical" attorney. He actually fully believes in the constitution and our natural rights. Unlike many of those attorneys who are ideological on the fake left and right.

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Oh there is no doubt like Drew and think the world of him, the only issue at hand here is keeping those who paid and even those in the forum that have an interest into the case.

Granted I am one of the ones who feel Josh should not have pushed things as far as he did in the circumstances as to being at night, near empty parking lot, snowing, hanging around the parking lot instead of inside a vehicle or the only business that was open if my memory serves me correctly and then told a robbery just occurred a couple days prior.
A page from the successful organizations fighting for our rights, pick and choose which ones they will push forward that has a chance to win on its merits, I do not think this one was one of those times, unfortunately and maybe this is why we are not hearing about it? Maybe it was determine by those involved that this case may do more harm then good and left it be or want to let it die.

BigDave said:

Oh there is no doubt like Drew and think the world of him, the only issue at hand here is keeping those who paid and even those in the forum that have an interest into the case.

Granted I am one of the ones who feel Josh should not have pushed things as far as he did in the circumstances as to being at night, near empty parking lot, snowing, hanging around the parking lot instead of inside a vehicle or the only business that was open if my memory serves me correctly and then told a robbery just occurred a couple days prior.
A page from the successful organizations fighting for our rights, pick and choose which ones they will push forward that has a chance to win on its merits, I do not think this one was one of those times, unfortunately and maybe this is why we are not hearing about it? Maybe it was determine by those involved that this case may do more harm then good and left it be or want to let it die.

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I know you are of the ilk who think we should just capitulate to unconstitutional cop demands. It's folks like you who on a jury who are willing to be so judgmental of others in favor of your beloved government over the freedoms of people.

I am one who donated for this but having been thru the legal human meat grinder we like to call the "justice system" understand how slow it can be and also understand holding some cards close to your chest. Did you donate? If not why are you being so demanding?

sudden valley gunner said:

I know you are of the ilk who think we should just capitulate to unconstitutional cop demands. It's folks like you who on a jury who are willing to be so judgmental of others in favor of your beloved government over the freedoms of people.

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No not at all, but understand do to the circumstances at that point in time and it is not all about just me.

sudden valley gunner said:

I am one who donated for this but having been thru the legal human meat grinder we like to call the "justice system" understand how slow it can be and also understand holding some cards close to your chest. Did you donate? If not why are you being so demanding?

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First I have never demanded anything, Second I do donate to issues I support, this is not one of them and it is effects anyone in Washington State who does open carry's as thus far it has been one failure after another and well that does happen but it appears to be stuck at that point.

The issue here seems to be others then myself want to know as well, some have said so and some not, so in conclusion let Drew speak for himself, he is the one paid to do the work, his client Josh has already stated he was for disclosure, so whats the problem?

BigDave said:

No not at all, but understand do to the circumstances at that point in time and it is not all about just me.

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And none of the circumstances fit him "committing" a crime. This is bullcrap, prosecuting by police and prosecutors and allowed by a judge and my guess is faulty instruction given to the jury. To be guilty of a crime you must have intent, period. The travesty our "justice" system has become supporting balderdash like this is unacceptable.

BigDave said:

First I have never demanded anything, Second I do donate to issues I support, this is not one of them and it is effects anyone in Washington State who does open carry's as thus far it has been one failure after another and well that does happen but it appears to be stuck at that point.

The issue here seems to be others then myself want to know as well, some have said so and some not, so in conclusion let Drew speak for himself, he is the one paid to do the work, his client Josh has already stated he was for disclosure, so whats the problem?

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Maybe the problem is lack of patience? Or other circumstances we are not aware of? Or maybe just maybe they are busy trying to make a living? Something will come of this or something won't, period. Being pushy and demanding (asking over and over again is demanding) them to post for your own personal gratification ,confusing since you don't support this cause, makes me think you are actually looking for more "legal" ammo for your statist position of allowing police and government officials to run rough shod over our natural rights.

sudden valley gunner said:

And none of the circumstances fit him "committing" a crime. This is bullcrap, prosecuting by police and prosecutors and allowed by a judge and my guess is faulty instruction given to the jury. To be guilty of a crime you must have intent, period. The travesty our "justice" system has become supporting balderdash like this is unacceptable.

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So are you saying you have no information about this incident as well to the trial or appeal and word has it you paid for it or a part of it and yet no return?

sudden valley gunner said:

Maybe the problem is lack of patience? Or other circumstances we are not aware of? Or maybe just maybe they are busy trying to make a living? Something will come of this or something won't, period. Being pushy and demanding (asking over and over again is demanding) them to post for your own personal gratification ,confusing since you don't support this cause, makes me think you are actually looking for more "legal" ammo for your statist position of allowing police and government officials to run rough shod over our natural rights.

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Plenty of patience, but there is a time and a place to pay the piper sort of speak.
So many times in life questions are asked and never answered and normally not answered because someone is not pursing the answer, no the case here.
We have laws that we abide by, do I like them all, NO but they are there until such time we work to change them, it does not mean we can just pick and choose the ones we like to obey.

You know SVG I feel most issue you and I have are directly related to you purport on how you would like things to be and not on what things are at this time in our lives and I feel no matter how you slice it, we still must and will contend with what is current as of today and work through the process to change those things we want or need to change.

As to Josh's case

Chapter 9.41.270 (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

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WPIC 133.40 Unlawful Display of a Weapon—Definition
A person commits the crime of unlawfully displaying a weapon when he or she carries, exhibits, displays or draws a [firearm][dagger][sword][knife][or][cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm], in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place [that manifests an intent to intimidate another][or][that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons].

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This is where the rub is I believe when it comes to intent, the law says that manifests an intent not that you can prove intent. I do wish this RCW would be cleaned up to protect the law abiding citizen going about their business, but here we are in reality and where we are at today.

From the beginning there has been a dearth of information on this case. Let me rephrase that, a dearth of factual information. Other than a couple of posts describing the circumstances early on, the only thing that the group knows as "fact" is that Josh was convicted of the charges. We also know that this occurred in spite of the Jury Pool being overwhelmingly pro-gun.

All that anyone is asking for is more factual information. What happened, why were charges filed, and what went into the Jury's decision. All that stuff that is included in the transcript.

There has to be a reason that the jury reached their conclusion beyond that of overzealous police, a crusading prosecutor, and a complicit Judge. There also has to be a reason that an appeal was lost and nothing seems to be moving forward. On the latter, it's not my case so I have no standing to complain on that. I am very curious though as to why there seems to be almost a blackout on information.

I seriously doubt that it's possible to post a complete transcript but abstracts might go a long way to clearing up the "fog" that has settled over the issue. How about the summation by the Prosecutor to the Jury? That should cover their case.

Just because people are asking questions doesn't necessarily mean they mean Josh was guilty of anything, they are still waiting for factual information that might help them avoid similar circumstances.

As a final note, did anyone here attend the trial? Listen to the presentation of the Prosecutor's case? If someone did it might be nice to hear from them. It would certainly be better information than has been presented so far by speculators.

BigDave said:

You know SVG I feel most issue you and I have are directly related to you purport on how you would like things to be and not on what things are at this time in our lives and I feel no matter how you slice it, we still must and will contend with what is current as of today and work through the process to change those things we want or need to change.

As to Josh's case





This is where the rub is I believe when it comes to intent, the law says that manifests an intent not that you can prove intent. I do wish this RCW would be cleaned up to protect the law abiding citizen going about their business, but here we are in reality and where we are at today.

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Again there is no Intent.....

No what we have now is a legal system that twists a law. And we have plenty of folks that believe in the bull$hit line that ignorance is no excuse. Just OCing with a gun in a holster can never be construed to manifest intent, just because he happened to be at a location where a few folks here scared.

Manifest again means he would have to display intent.

I am very well aware of how the legal system has become it does not mean it is right and that I can't use my free speech to denounce it and work toward getting it back to one of liberty.

Amlevin, there are many "pro gun" people who are not really pro natural, rights (the ones the government isn't supposed to infringe on. There are some here who believe we should have to posses a cpl and that "loop holes" need to be closed. And that people should have "professional" training, etc.......