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Please help $upport Josh's case

BigDave

BigDave

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At the foundation of our legal system is the opportunity to be judged by our peers, this happened and unless we know more about the transcripts of the trial and appeal we are still shooting in the dark.
SVG your assumptions are just that assumptions, why criticize others for wanting accurate information.
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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BigDave said:
At the foundation of our legal system is the opportunity to be judged by our peers, this happened and unless we know more about the transcripts of the trial and appeal we are still shooting in the dark.
SVG your assumptions are just that assumptions, why criticize others for wanting accurate information.
Click to expand...

The foundation of our legal system is supposed to be a Blackstone legal system where there has to be actus reaus and mens rea to even be tried. Yet People have let themselves be fooled that these don't need to be present to be tried and all that is needed is a jury that is convinced by an overzealous prosecutor to be charged as guilty.

This is why we are supposed to have a judge that knows the rules and puts and end to this yet we find instead that more and more they work hand in hand with law enforcement and let personal bias prejudice a case. And case after case where they give faulty instruction to a jury. We also see how they try to squash "nullification".

It is not a just legal system when someone can be tried for engaging in a lawful activity at the wrong time and place. That is grossly unjust in a free society.

Hopefully a higher court slaps the prosecutor and judge's faulty decisions down, yet after reading case after case where Higher courts of ruled against our constitution, Blackstone legal system, and refused to be the reprieve of the people, I don't have a lot of faith.

If you are that interested you can always order a copy yourself.
 
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BigDave

BigDave

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sudden valley gunner said:
The foundation of our legal system is supposed to be a Blackstone legal system where there has to be actus reaus and mens rea to even be tried. Yet People have let themselves be fooled that these don't need to be present to be tried and all that is needed is a jury that is convinced by an overzealous prosecutor to be charged as guilty.

This is why we are supposed to have a judge that knows the rules and puts and end to this yet we find instead that more and more they work hand in hand with law enforcement and let personal bias prejudice a case. And case after case where they give faulty instruction to a jury. We also see how they try to squash "nullification".

It is not a just legal system when someone can be tried for engaging in a lawful activity at the wrong time and place. That is grossly unjust in a free society.

Hopefully a higher court slaps the prosecutor and judge's faulty decisions down, yet after reading case after case where Higher courts of ruled against our constitution, Blackstone legal system, and refused to be the reprieve of the people, I don't have a lot of faith.

If you are that interested you can always order a copy yourself.
Click to expand...

100% assumption, where the meat of it, what actually happened in court, both times?
 
Squeak

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BigDave said:
At the foundation of our legal system is the opportunity to be judged by our peers, this happened and unless we know more about the transcripts of the trial and appeal we are still shooting in the dark.
SVG your assumptions are just that assumptions, why criticize others for wanting accurate information.
Click to expand...
Help me out here if you could. No where can I find 'judged by our peers'. We get a 'speedy and public trial' , but by 'our peers'....dunno.
 
amlevin

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We all know that the trial didn't turn out the way we wanted and many expected. We still don't know WHY. We are all aware of what should happen in order for justice to be meted out but until we know what happened in this trial all I read is "opinions". Opinions based on personal beliefs and possibly prejudices but no facts as they pertain to this case.

Again, I ask, did anyone here actually attend the trial or read the transcript and will they share the high points of the trial with us?

Again, we can all say some don't like people to carry firearms openly and that Josh got the stinky end of the stick. Can't change opinions but where are the facts??????

Just because everything doesn't turn out the way we want doesn't always mean that something was fishy. Without facts of the trial how will we ever know?
 
BigDave

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Squeak said:
Help me out here if you could. No where can I find 'judged by our peers'. We get a 'speedy and public trial' , but by 'our peers'....dunno.
Click to expand...

Is that we have to be hand feed information or has to reached a point of the inability to do a simple search, it is there.
More then likely the request is no more then being lazy.

Take time to read as you will get more out of it then just having someone give you a short answer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
 
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amlevin

amlevin

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Squeak said:
Help me out here if you could. No where can I find 'judged by our peers'. We get a 'speedy and public trial' , but by 'our peers'....dunno.
Click to expand...

As with much of today's law, this is not specifically named in the Constitution but Courts have used the 6th and 14th Amendments to insure both the speedy trial and equal protection.

Much of what we have as "law" today began as English Common Law.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Jury+of+peers

The term "peers" is more likely than not a reference to the jury members being selected from the masses rather than from the Government or "Royalty". At one time in history Jurors were actually the witnesses against the accused. This changed long before this country was formed.
 
Squeak

Squeak

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amlevin said:
As with much of today's law, this is not specifically named in the Constitution but Courts have used the 6th and 14th Amendments to insure both the speedy trial and equal protection.

Much of what we have as "law" today began as English Common Law.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Jury+of+peers

The term "peers" is more likely than not a reference to the jury members being selected from the masses rather than from the Government or "Royalty". At one time in history Jurors were actually the witnesses against the accused. This changed long before this country was formed.
Click to expand...
Thanks Amlevin. Didn't mean to cause trouble by having to be 'spoon fed'. I know what the 6th says and all. I wasn't really up on the peer part. I reckin I should have asked you first.
 
gogodawgs

gogodawgs

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6th Amendment

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Click to expand...

No where is there instruction to have a jury of your 'peers', only an impartial jury where you live. Layman's terminology has led us to believe it is of our peers, but that is not necessarily the case.
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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Bigdave,

Pretty good discussion. I agree what I am saying is based on assumptions. I assume Josh account is accurate and that his Attorney's (2) different ones that fought for him believed he committed no crime. I also strongly believe in "presumed" (or pre assumed) innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This means I agree with cases such as the OJ Simpson verdict, do I believe he was guilty? Absolutely, but that he shouldn't be convicted on circumstantial evidence.

Unfortunately there are way too many people who "assume" that if you are brought to court you must be guilty of something, that the cops and prosecutors must have a "valid" reason to do so. And we have too many judges who allow this. Our system was meant as a check on the government not a tool for the government to use as a means to control it's citizens.

I find that today's situation is much like the founders, where only 3% actively, and proactively fought against tyranny. I wonder if they thought Jefferson was a "confrontational douche bag". :lol:
 
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Jim675

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If you look back through this thread and their profiles you will see that neither are frequent posters. Josh told me at one point he seldom checks in here. Other priorities are legal.
 
amlevin

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Jim675 said:
If you look back through this thread and their profiles you will see that neither are frequent posters. Josh told me at one point he seldom checks in here. Other priorities are legal.
Click to expand...

There are some on this Forum that supported his case financially. Many more that supported through encouragement though not financially.

You'd think that Josh would have keep those more up to date than he has so far. Especially those that contributed money to his cause.

To seldom show up and answer any questions doesn't show much appreciation to those who have contributed, even if the only answer is "I can't comment on that". Certainly there is a lot that is public record now that he could comment on.

Be nice to read some "facts" rather than "conjecture".
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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amlevin said:
There are some on this Forum that supported his case financially. Many more that supported through encouragement though not financially.

You'd think that Josh would have keep those more up to date than he has so far. Especially those that contributed money to his cause.

To seldom show up and answer any questions doesn't show much appreciation to those who have contributed, even if the only answer is "I can't comment on that". Certainly there is a lot that is public record now that he could comment on.

Be nice to read some "facts" rather than "conjecture".
Click to expand...

Not all defense attorneys believe their clients to be innocent. Drew believed Josh committed no crime.

I contributed with no expectations from either Drew or Josh but to fight this horrible ruling. I hope he continues to fight it.
 
1245A Defender

1245A Defender

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well,,,

total contributions for the appeal 996.57$
total withdrawals to fund the loosing appeal 604.66$
amount left over 391.91$ thats 39.33%

last we heard from josh was 5-9-11, about as long since we heard from olypendrew telling us the appeal ruling still has not been written.
still havent seen any of the transcripts from the original trial.
 
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