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Thread: fixed blade question (california)

  1. #1
    Regular Member realityfatality's Avatar
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    Question fixed blade question (california)

    I hope I've posted in the right section, I'm using my phone so browsing is kind of hard.

    Well I'll start by introducing myself as joshua I am currently under the age of 18 for 2 more years, recently I received a fixed blade ka-bar marine utility knife as a christmas present from a family member. I'm aware of all of my rights and the california state law regarding fixed blade knives. Must be worn openly and etc. I'm also aware of the deadly force statues if it ever come to that point which I hope it never will.

    I open carry my tool in densely populated orange county california. I've been stopped and released multiple times by local law enforcement but never detained and never had my blade confiscated (I'm aware I should ask for a receipt of item if this does happen) but I have noticed most people, police officers and some buisneses are not aware of california state law and threaten me with LEO or physical harm. This keeps me from going some places which is unfortunate but I refuse to not excercise rights that are avaible to me as a free citizen. Usually I'm bombarded with "why do you need that" or "you're too young to carry that". I've grown up carrying knives and have owned a 3in folder since I was 5 years old. A knife is a knife no matter size or how it's carried, and I don't plan on giving up the right I've had as a child for liberal sheep.

    But my question is, will my age and knife in question be serious judgemental factors if ever tried in a legal case? I'm aware state law has no restrictions of age but sometimes our government has "unspoken standards" if you know what I mean.

    Thank you very much, I look forward to being a member of this community.

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    I cannot answer your question on California law. Someone else surely will. You will probably get more answers, better answers, and faster answers if you ask in the California forum. The States are listed alphabetically on the main index.

    I posted mainly because you report being stopped many times, but never detained. If you were stopped by a LEO for any reason other than he and you being citizens voluntarily chit-chatting, you WERE detained.

    If you did not feel that you were free to walk away, the courts would have used an even stronger term than detained: For however briefly that the officer was requiring your presence, you were seized in the very sense that the 4A uses that word.

    I will not speak to the lawfulness of such a detention in California (not being familiar with the intricacies of CA law), but I will pass along that LEOs cannot willy-nilly detain citizens. They must have a specific reason, authorized by law for the detention.

    One such reason would be reasonable articulable suspicion that you have committed, are committing, or are about to commit a crime (articulable meaning that they could, at the time of the stop, put their reasonable suspicion into words). California also authorizes LEOs to stop citizens openly carrying firearms to check that the firearm is unloaded, but, IMO, that law is of questionable constitutionality.

    I would suggest that you research the laws of California to determine whether detentions (even momentary ones) for the OC of a knife is lawful. Whether you choose then to challenge the next officer who violates your rights, or cooperate for the sake of expediency, would be up to you.

    When I am unlawfully stopped, I take the time to educate the officers--politely. If they continue to issue orders (that are likely unlawful, but that will be determined later), I will specifically state that I do not consent, but will not resist their overt acts to enforce those orders. Make them take your ID. Make them seize your weapon. Etc. Do not hand these items over, but do not resist their taking. Have a recorder running at all times.

    Just my zwei Pfennige.

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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Off Topic, but you are one educated well spoken (written?) 16 year old. At 16 all i cared about was hopping up my '68 Camaro and girls. Good for you! It took me until my mid 20's to wake up from my sheep sleep.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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    Quote Originally Posted by realityfatality View Post
    I hope I've posted in the right section, I'm using my phone so browsing is kind of hard.

    Well I'll start by introducing myself as joshua I am currently under the age of 18 for 2 more years, recently I received a fixed blade ka-bar marine utility knife as a christmas present from a family member. I'm aware of all of my rights and the california state law regarding fixed blade knives. Must be worn openly and etc. I'm also aware of the deadly force statues if it ever come to that point which I hope it never will.

    I open carry my tool in densely populated orange county california. I've been stopped and released multiple times by local law enforcement but never detained and never had my blade confiscated (I'm aware I should ask for a receipt of item if this does happen) but I have noticed most people, police officers and some buisneses are not aware of california state law and threaten me with LEO or physical harm. This keeps me from going some places which is unfortunate but I refuse to not excercise rights that are avaible to me as a free citizen. Usually I'm bombarded with "why do you need that" or "you're too young to carry that". I've grown up carrying knives and have owned a 3in folder since I was 5 years old. A knife is a knife no matter size or how it's carried, and I don't plan on giving up the right I've had as a child for liberal sheep.

    But my question is, will my age and knife in question be serious judgemental factors if ever tried in a legal case? I'm aware state law has no restrictions of age but sometimes our government has "unspoken standards" if you know what I mean.

    Thank you very much, I look forward to being a member of this community.
    I think your pretty good to go, but don't go on college campuses. Long knifes are Illegal there I believe.
    I to use to carry a long fixed knife all the time, as I was a trapper then, no LEO ever bothered me.
    It to was a Kabar.
    Anyway study the laws so your confident of what your doing.
    Here's some more Info. Hope this helps you !
    Robin47

    http://zknives.com/knives/articles/l...nifelaws.shtml

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4230019AAji3EL

    http://www.ehow.com/facts_7637944_ca...de-knives.html

  5. #5
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    http://library.municode.com/index.as...ame=California

    For Orange County. Ka-Bars are great fighting knives. My Jarhead friends swore by them in 'Nam. However, most states have specific laws on length of knives--even open carried, and consider them dangerous weapons over 3" and therefore other than knife regulations/codes/statutes apply. While a sheath knive of 7" may be legal to open carry while hunting/fishing/hiking, it may be under dangerous weapons statutes wherein if you draw if for any reason you are brandishing in a municipality. I'm no expert in the PDR's draconian laws for its subjects, so suggest you check the codes I linked above and do a little online research. Welcome to the forum. It's nice to have the (much ) younger generation represented.

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    Joshua, just for future clarification. "Marine" is always capitalized when referencing the fighting arm of the US Navy.

    ie: you have a Marine combat and utility knife, made by KABAR.


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    Would these be legal in ca?
    http://images.knifecenter.com/knifec...ges/CS43LS.jpg

    they are only about in inch or so in blade length and single edged, and do they need be carried openly or can they be in a pocket or something?
    Last edited by Chrisc411; 02-11-2011 at 01:33 PM.
    "Sooner or later we all must die. Warriors choose to do so on their feet, standing between their enemies and those they hold dear. With a weapon in their hands. Cowards choose to do so on their bellies. Unarmed."
    - Dave Gell (inspired by author David Weber)

    "The tragic history of civilian disarmament cries a warning against any systematic attempts to render innocent citizens ill-equipped to defend themselves from tyrant terrorists, despots or oppressive majorities,"
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  8. #8
    Regular Member realityfatality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I cannot answer your question on California law. Someone else surely will. You will probably get more answers, better answers, and faster answers if you ask in the California forum. The States are listed alphabetically on the main index.

    I posted mainly because you report being stopped many times, but never detained. If you were stopped by a LEO for any reason other than he and you being citizens voluntarily chit-chatting, you WERE detained.

    If you did not feel that you were free to walk away, the courts would have used an even stronger term than detained: For however briefly that the officer was requiring your presence, you were seized in the very sense that the 4A uses that word.

    I will not speak to the lawfulness of such a detention in California (not being familiar with the intricacies of CA law), but I will pass along that LEOs cannot willy-nilly detain citizens. They must have a specific reason, authorized by law for the detention.

    One such reason would be reasonable articulable suspicion that you have committed, are committing, or are about to commit a crime (articulable meaning that they could, at the time of the stop, put their reasonable suspicion into words). California also authorizes LEOs to stop citizens openly carrying firearms to check that the firearm is unloaded, but, IMO, that law is of questionable constitutionality.

    I would suggest that you research the laws of California to determine whether detentions (even momentary ones) for the OC of a knife is lawful. Whether you choose then to challenge the next officer who violates your rights, or cooperate for the sake of expediency, would be up to you.

    When I am unlawfully stopped, I take the time to educate the officers--politely. If they continue to issue orders (that are likely unlawful, but that will be determined later), I will specifically state that I do not consent, but will not resist their overt acts to enforce those orders. Make them take your ID. Make them seize your weapon. Etc. Do not hand these items over, but do not resist their taking. Have a recorder running at all times.

    Just my zwei Pfennige.
    The reason I say I wasn't detained because when I was stopped and questioned and the officer asked if could secure my weapon I ask if I may put it out of both of our reaches for fear of having my tool being illegally seized. Them following that question I ask if I am being detained and if I'm free to go. I've always been told no it's just stop and identify kinda thing. Then they usually ask for my id and to search me. I usually refuse both and they don't give me too hard of a time after chit chat on the radio with shift commander who I've had called out to scenes before when officers have hassled me. Usually I end the conversation before it goes that far. I always keep my phone in my shirt pen pocket away from my blade in plain sight so I can easily deploy it to record if something goes south.

    Quote Originally Posted by Army View Post
    Joshua, just for future clarification. "Marine" is always capitalized when referencing the fighting arm of the US Navy.

    ie: you have a Marine combat and utility knife, made by KABAR.

    I was not aware of that, Thank you very much sir.

  9. #9
    Regular Member realityfatality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    Off Topic, but you are one educated well spoken (written?) 16 year old. At 16 all i cared about was hopping up my '68 Camaro and girls. Good for you! It took me until my mid 20's to wake up from my sheep sleep.
    Thank you Born2lose. just at some point got tired of getting taken advantage of by the system we can use just because I wasn't aware of how it worked. Everythings a lot clearer when you know the laws and your rights. I feel like the most confident american on the continent
    Quote Originally Posted by Robin47 View Post
    I think your pretty good to go, but don't go on college campuses. Long knifes are Illegal there I believe.
    I to use to carry a long fixed knife all the time, as I was a trapper then, no LEO ever bothered me.
    It to was a Kabar.
    Anyway study the laws so your confident of what your doing.
    Here's some more Info. Hope this helps you !
    Robin47

    http://zknives.com/knives/articles/l...nifelaws.shtml

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4230019AAji3EL

    http://www.ehow.com/facts_7637944_ca...de-knives.html
    Thank you for the links & information. Will bookmark those for future refrence.


    Sorry for double post I was unable to get all of the quotes in my first.

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    The OP reminds me of me. I dig that.

  11. #11
    Regular Member realityfatality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pullnshoot25 View Post
    The OP reminds me of me. I dig that.
    Thanks a lot pullnshoot25. I bet the main reason for that is how many times I've lurked this forum in the past and refrenced to many posts on this forum in order to conduct every day buisness within and along the lines of all of my rights and the law. I can't name how many times I've ended up here when researching different laws and ordinances. I was only able to join after I bought a newer phone that was more capable of browsing but I can say I've read well over a thousand posts on this forum. Quite a few have been yours. I can't even express how much I appreciate the knowledge and comfortablitiy I've obtained about my state/country from the level headed knowledgeful users of this forum over the passed two years or so.
    Last edited by realityfatality; 02-12-2011 at 03:41 AM.

  12. #12
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bad_ace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by realityfatality View Post
    I always keep my phone in my shirt pen pocket away from my blade in plain sight so I can easily deploy it to record if something goes south.
    My advice, start recording the moment you think contact from a LEO will occur. Deleting it later costs you nothing, missing the first part or the beginning of it "going south" could cost you.

    Nice to see you standing up for your rights! I think too many of us focus on the post 18/21 years old type activity and miss the fact that self defense and tool carrying is inalienable and reserved for all ages

  13. #13
    Regular Member realityfatality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad_ace View Post
    My advice, start recording the moment you think contact from a LEO will occur. Deleting it later costs you nothing, missing the first part or the beginning of it "going south" could cost you.

    Nice to see you standing up for your rights! I think too many of us focus on the post 18/21 years old type activity and miss the fact that self defense and tool carrying is inalienable and reserved for all ages
    Good advice. Thank you very much, I never considered that.

    And yeah, glad to find someone that understands. I also think standing up for my rights while making the right decisions will reserve the right for my future children and my future childrens children. I know I expect to give my kid a blade when he/she seems responsible enough

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