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Thread: Northern Ky OC = Insighting panic and jail time

  1. #1
    Rebstew
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    Northern Ky OC = Insighting panic and jail time

    New guy that was surfing and happen across the forum. Very nice set you guys have. I was just wondering if anyone has had to deal with the OC laws in Northern Ky.

    Newport, Covington, Ft. Thomas ect ect ect will not let you carry open. I use to do it out in the county with little problem. Moving to the city has been completely different. I have had many people talk to me about this issue and have heard some stuff on the police scanner. If you are carry open here the police will stop you no matter where you are. They will ask for your ID and give you the run around trying to figure out what you are doing. It is so unnatural to carry open here that the police are instantly intimidated. When you explain to them that you are not breaking the law and that Ky is an open carry state they tell you, that law doesn't stop local department with issueing you with an insighting panic citation. You are given the option of returning to your car to lock it up or walking home and unstrap. Then you are free to do as you wish. If you refuse then you can be cited for insighting panic and or failure to disburse.

    So this has really bugged me. Can someone shed some light on this. If someone is scared to death or freaks out because they are afraid of guns and a police officers seen that happen then I may be able to understand getting cited for insighting panic. But that, as far as I know has never been the case. It's just Northern Ky's way of keeping you from doing what is legal.

    Any thoughts on this?
    Last edited by Rebstew; 02-13-2011 at 11:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Welcome Rebstew

    Suggest that you spend a little more time reading here, particularly the Kentucky forum. Kentucky enjoys complete state preemption on the pertinent laws and such charges as you reference are complete nonsense - not saying that some LEOs haven't said such a thing, just won't fly. Connect with others in your state and get the information from those that have been there and done that, everyday.

    http://www.opencarry.org/ky.html
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    If someone is scared to death or freaks out because they are afraid of guns and a police officers seen that happen then I may be able to understand getting cited for insighting panic.
    Walking your dog on a leash is also a legal activity. If someone spies your German Shephard and is scared to death or freaks out because they are afraid of dogs, will you be cited for insighting panic?

    How about if someone has a phobia of the colors green and yellow and sees you in your Packer's jersey? If they are afraid, couldn't you be cited for insighting a panic?

    Ask the officers how the law works concerning legal activity. Which legal activities are allowed, and which legal activities aren't? Isn't this the purpose of the law? To seperate legal from illegal? How does the occurrance of an external (uninvolved) individual's emotions dictate the legality of an activity that is already in writing (the law) as being legal?

    What If I'm afraid of badges? Using the same standard the officer uses to apply "insighting a panic", wouldn't he have to arrest himself? After all, his legal activity frightens me. Is the standard the same for everyone?

    Is the law the standard, or not? It's the officer's job to enforce it. Shouldn't they have a concrete, immoveable standard to enforce, or is it dictated by something as wishy-washy as external people's emotions and applied arbitrarily? The answer to this will determine the quality of law enforcement in your area.

  4. #4
    Rebstew
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    I understand what both of you are saying and I agree 100% I guess what I was wanting to know has anyone in Northern Ky had to deal with the same thing? If so how did they handle it. I'm all for doing it, I just don't want to be drug in front of the court or arrested in front of one or all of my 3 kids to prove a point. I am very active in the community and don't have the time to do a battle with local PD if they choose to push the issue. As for reading up? I do understand the law and I'm aware of how it's written. I just would like to know what would be the best route in wording or if someone has had this happen what was the outcome.

  5. #5
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Northern Kentucky Carry

    I carry openly in all of Northern Kentucky. I have not had anyone stop me. First, it is illegal, unless of course the officer can articulate a reasonable cause. Carrying a handgun is not reasonable cause. Secondly, there is no sighting for panic going on. Remember, any citation you recieve goes before a judge. H/She will not allow such a silly citation to stand. And if the police due stop you, ask why you are being detained and if you are not detained walk off. But, I have never been stopped in any of the cities you speak of and I carry in all of them. Was at Newport on the Levee just a week ago and no problem.
    Speed is fine
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  6. #6
    Rebstew
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    I carry openly in all of Northern Kentucky. I have not had anyone stop me. First, it is illegal, unless of course the officer can articulate a reasonable cause. Carrying a handgun is not reasonable cause. Secondly, there is no sighting for panic going on. Remember, any citation you recieve goes before a judge. H/She will not allow such a silly citation to stand. And if the police due stop you, ask why you are being detained and if you are not detained walk off. But, I have never been stopped in any of the cities you speak of and I carry in all of them. Was at Newport on the Levee just a week ago and no problem.
    I was hoping you would chime in. I have been reading some of your post and knew you were close. With your screen name you use we may even know each other. Just wondering if you have run into a police officer in Newport and he was aware that you had your sidearm? I carry open when I'm out in Alexadria and other places and have in Newport but I have not had a run in with an officer. This is just coming from people I know and what I have heard on the scanner.
    I did pull my AR-15 out of my truck, in a hard case I may ad as a Newport cop car rolled down the street. I sat it on my porch as I was getting the rest of the stuff out of my truck. I open my door and put the AR in and the rest of the stuff on the couch, closed the door. As it closed I seen the cop car rolling down the street with the headlights off. It got in front of the house and he was looking hard. I know Newport has it's crime and the cops are trying to do their jobs but coming from the country where a county cop would admire what you are packing to feeling like I am a criminal is strange to me.
    Last edited by Rebstew; 02-13-2011 at 11:57 PM.

  7. #7
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    To my knowledge, there is no "inciting panic" statute in KY. The closest thing is disorderly conduct--but sense when is obeying the law 'disorderly'? Plus there must be some sort of intent to disrupt.


    Besides, who isn't going to 'let' you OC? Are there any other freedoms that they won't 'let' you do? I have had good experience with Lexington Police, and apparently Hotrod has had the same success in northern KY. This issue is far from 'grey'. Carry on!

  8. #8
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    I've stood on Madison Ave in Covington and chatted with 3 officers while carrying. No one really worries about such things. If you are stopped, look 'em straight in the eye and ask what law you have violated and why are they stopping you. When they start to turn it back and ask why you are carrying, ask if you are being detained or do what I would and walk off. Just walk off. If you are ordered to stop, stop and ask what you are being detained for or are you free to leave. If detained, he must be able to tell you why. Until then refuse to identify yourself, you are not required unless your weapon is concealed. And in the Commonwealth there is no stop and identify law. Remember, the police can talk to anybody they want, they must have reasonable articulable suspicion that you have committed a crime or are about to commit a crime to detain you. And probable cause for an arrest or an arrest warrant signed by a judge or magistrate.


    ....--Moderator Edited and Note--
    Typing everything in bold is akin to using all capitalization - such is seen as shouting. I don't believe that was your intention, so just pointing it out.



    Speed is fine
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  9. #9
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    I've stood on Madison Ave in Covington and chatted with 3 officers while carrying. No one really worries about such things. If you are stopped, look 'em straight in the eye and ask what law you have violated and why are they stopping you. When they start to turn it back and ask why you are carrying, ask if you are being detained or do what I would and walk off. Just walk off. If you are ordered to stop, stop and ask what you are being detained for or are you free to leave. If detained, he must be able to tell you why. Until then refuse to identify yourself, you are not required unless your weapon is concealed. And in the Commonwealth there is no stop and identify law. Remember, the police can talk to anybody they want, they must have reasonable articulable suspicion that you have committed a crime or are about to commit a crime to detain you. And probable cause for an arrest or an arrest warrant signed by a judge or magistrate.





    Amen!!!!
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  10. #10
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    The Kentucky Supreme Court has held that open cary is constitutionally protected - this is the best conditions one can have to open carry.

    If you are seized by the police without casue, get an attorney and sue them for damages.

  11. #11
    Rebstew
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    Thanks for all the replies guys. It is truely nice to be on a forum that everyone believes in our freedom to be able to carry. I was starting to think I was the only one out there for a while. If I have any issues I will let you guys know.

  12. #12
    Rebstew
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Where did you get this information? What local Police Department where you listening to on the scanner? Who "won't let you carry open"? There are some misunderstandings about state law with some local governments, but it's hard for me to believe any Ky, PD is this misinformed. I don't claim to know every Ky. statute, but I can't find any law about "inducing panic". That scanner of yours must be picking up signals from NY or NJ. This sounds very strange to me. Is this just something that you are afraid might happen to you? Anybody who open carries assumes some risk of confrontation with a LEO. There can always be misunderstandings and LEO that don't know the law as well as they should. Some unwanted contact is possible, but being cited for any crime simply for OC is extremely rare in Ky. The police in Northern Ky. are well versed in OC and I doubt you will have any problems.
    I listen to Newport on the scanner which is were I live. I have also talked to family and friends that carry and they have told me the same thing and it's not only Newport. Not all have been stopped but some have and all can tell you stories that they have heard from surrounding townships. The scanner is not the best tool for trying to figure out what the deal is here but it does fill in some blanks. I have heard several times over the scanner an officer say he's out with a person carrying a sidearm. He gives his location and in a few he checks for local wants and warrants. Every time I have heard this the guy has come back clean. A few more minutes and the officer tells dispatch the person was advised and he's leaving the area. Doesn't say advised of what or what all was said. It could be anything. But that is the reason the guy was stopped, because he had and open carry.
    So now it is where I maybe shoud keep my mouth shut but seems some may be thinking I'm just worried about PD. A little about myself. I am legal to carry. I have no criminal record and I am in hi standings with the city. I know most of the Commissioners and the Mayor personaly. I know the Cheif of Police and a few cops. I go to city meeting and was involved in committees with the city. I have been in charge of some big festival type activities that Newport has had that have been huge for the city. Very active in organizations within the city one being the crime watch. I have sit in on meetings with PD over multiple issues and it has never been brought up enough to push the issue but behind closed doors and in a round about way they use that term to deture people from carrying open. I want to ad that I believe in our police dept. and they do a great job. But I don't agree with how they do the open carry.
    As stated above I don't mind to try this and I am. But it's scary with the involvement I have within the city to buck the system. I hate to think that my rights to open carry may end up hurting things I am now doing in the crime watch program. We have a good relationship with police backing but that may be tossed out the window if I rock the boat. Sitting in a holding cell and going before a judge is not what I want to do in this city because of my relationship with the city. It wouldn't look good. BUT I also understand that by fearing what is happening I'm hurting what we could do here in Northern Ky by teaching other that you can carry open and be able to defend yourself if the time ever arises.
    Sorry to sound like such a bleeding hart but just trying to clarify that I'm not some young punk wanting to play cowboy and walk around with a sidearm. I'm in my 40's happily married and just want to protect my family and myself as well as teach other people that they can do the same and do it legally. I have talked to people here about this issue to only be told to get a CCW and don't worry about it. I have my CCW but that only helps me in the winter. Most of the summer I am in a t shirt or button up shirt with no coat. It's hard to conceal a firearm wearing a t shirt. I am big guy at 6'3 and carry a GP100. It's a big gun to try to hide in the summer time.

  13. #13
    Rebstew
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    I did a search and this one popped up. This town is about 15 minutes south of me. First line he refers to being scared about being cited for induing panic.
    I'm not saying anyone is wrong and I agree it is legal to do so but it seems like this is a tactic use by many local PD to try to deture you from carrying open. This post was from 2008 in Earlanger Ky
    http://www.kentuckyhunting.net/forum...p/t-61050.html

  14. #14
    Rebstew
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    Here's another 6 post down.
    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/forum/...-me-understand
    Maybe this is just a urban legend that has gotten out of hand? lol

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    With all due respect Rebstew, you are seeking out the exception, not the rule. One of your examples is from 2008 and the other is a general discussion - people worrying about a hypothetical event.

    There may always be the errant officer or two, but by and large, from the people I've talked to, the problem in your state as long since passed.

    If you have such concerns and know the city leaders so well, why not sit down and have a honest open discussion with the police chief regarding how officers do or do not react to open carry? See no risk in doing this and you might just be doing a service for everybody - particularly yourself.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-12-2011 at 08:11 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Rebstew, there is always a chance of anyone being arrested for anything. But, an illegal arrest or detainment comes under 42USC1983. The local officers understand the color of law formula and do not want to loose there homes. It has happened here before. Just carry and don't worry about it. All will be fine, if you have a problem, let us know and we know people who know people that can make a call. Or, letters to the proper authorities works well, too
    Speed is fine
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    I live 5 minutes from Newport. I have OCd in Newport, Covington, and many other areas of Northern Kentucky. I have never been stopped or even looked at the wrong way (except by some scared antis, good story from yesterday I'll post later).

    Cincinnati is different state and different story, although I have even OCd in Cincinnati around Clifton and Sharonville plenty of times. Got a funny look from one Cincinnati officer but he left after watching me for like 2 minutes.


    There are very few states were open carry is so well legally established and protected (even in the constitution) as Kentucky. Carry to your hearts content and be safe out there.

    and welcome

  18. #18
    Rebstew
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    Thanks for the replies guys. I have a meeting on the 17th and will be bringing this up with PD. I'm am really hoping for a open talk and not a closed door.
    I wanted to see what some thought in Newport about open carry and it's not going so well. To be honest I'm just not up on the Kentucky Statutes and other things like I should be. Trying to educate myself further while educating other is going slow. If anyone wants to I have a discussion going on a Newport forum that I could use some help with. Maybe open some eyes. I have already found out that one person had never heard that you can carry open. So even if I do get shot down in flames someone knows the law now. Anyway if you want to check it out the link is below. I'll let you know how the meeting with PD goes.
    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/newp...S3A0O#lastPost

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebstew View Post
    Trying to educate myself further while educating other is going slow.
    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/newp...S3A0O#lastPost
    You may want to start by learning to write in paragraphs, and improving your spelling.
    I use firefox and it has a built in spell check, it helps a lot.

    I'm not saying this to insult you, when I was in my forties my writing style wasn't all it could be either.

    If we gunnies wish to educate others we have to be able to write a coherent letter to the editor or to the Chief LE of the County etc.

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    Alright, this has gone on far enough

    I've been reading some of stuff your posting on the other forum about "newport pd ignoring the state law". BS, they know the law and I've never had a problem OCing around there.


    Unless you can provide us with an account of you personally being harrassed by Newport or Covington PD for open carry (in which case please do), I'd really appreciate it if you would stop trying to stir up crap where there need be none.


    I have OCd in both of those areas a number of times, the police have been nothing but polite and nair said a word about it. They know law.

    But I will say this, if you keep trying to rub it in their faces and make a big deal out of something that IS NOT a big deal, then all your gonna do is piss them off and make life annoying for the rest of us normal OCrs.

    I mean seriously, your only piece of evidence is stuff that you "heard on the scanner". Who sits and listens to a police scanner all day?

    Buddy, your looking for something that isnt there and it's likely just gonna cause the rest of us problems down the road. If you want to OC, then OC. If they bother you, get a lawyer, sue them for violating the law, buy yourself a nice villa outside of Lexington. I don't care, just stop trying to provoke the local PD over stuff they haven't done yet.
    Last edited by trooper46; 02-13-2011 at 10:01 PM.

  21. #21
    Rebstew
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    If you read this thread you can see there is more to it than me listening to a police scanner. I stand behind what I said and if you have not had this happen then good for you. As I said I have a meeting coming up and this will be brought out and it's not the first time I have ask but it will be time to not let PD push it under the rug with a simple one or two sentence and then move on as they have in the past.

    As for learning to write in paragraphs and other remarks. I'm not a very educated person compared to most. I know when to stop and that is why I ask for help with the above link. Thanks you everyone that has posted by the way. I'm not insulted. I'm self tought without much schooling. I'm lucky to be able to spell anything or even work the computer which is something I could do not long ago. No insult taken by the way. I agree and that's why I posted the link as I stated earlier.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    Walking your dog on a leash is also a legal activity. If someone spies your German Shephard and is scared to death or freaks out because they are afraid of dogs, will you be cited for insighting panic?
    Excellent analogy.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebstew View Post
    New guy that was surfing and happen across the forum. Very nice set you guys have. I was just wondering if anyone has had to deal with the OC laws in Northern Ky.

    Newport, Covington, Ft. Thomas ect ect ect will not let you carry open. I use to do it out in the county with little problem. Moving to the city has been completely different. I have had many people talk to me about this issue and have heard some stuff on the police scanner. If you are carry open here the police will stop you no matter where you are. They will ask for your ID and give you the run around trying to figure out what you are doing. It is so unnatural to carry open here that the police are instantly intimidated. When you explain to them that you are not breaking the law and that Ky is an open carry state they tell you, that law doesn't stop local department with issueing you with an insighting panic citation. You are given the option of returning to your car to lock it up or walking home and unstrap. Then you are free to do as you wish. If you refuse then you can be cited for insighting panic and or failure to disburse.

    So this has really bugged me. Can someone shed some light on this. If someone is scared to death or freaks out because they are afraid of guns and a police officers seen that happen then I may be able to understand getting cited for insighting panic. But that, as far as I know has never been the case. It's just Northern Ky's way of keeping you from doing what is legal.

    Any thoughts on this?
    I'm missing something here. Are you saying that this has happened to you repeatedly? OC of a firearm in KY is completely legal and any detention based purely upon doing so is false arrest and or violation of the 4th Amendment. In no state will a BS charge of going armed to the terror of the people (my favorite from NC), disorderly conduct, brandishing, etc stand for legally carrying an at all times holstered pistol openly where it is not a violation of the law. And the SC has held that no RAS for a stop can exist solely based upon lawful open carry; therefore, no detention would be legal. Failing detention, just AMF the cop and walk away. Not to say that a cop can't start a 'friendly' chat with you, but you have no legal duty to talk to him at all or stick around.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 02-14-2011 at 01:26 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebstew View Post
    If you read this thread you can see there is more to it than me listening to a police scanner. I stand behind what I said and if you have not had this happen then good for you. As I said I have a meeting coming up and this will be brought out and it's not the first time I have ask but it will be time to not let PD push it under the rug with a simple one or two sentence and then move on as they have in the past.

    As for learning to write in paragraphs and other remarks. I'm not a very educated person compared to most. I know when to stop and that is why I ask for help with the above link. Thanks you everyone that has posted by the way. I'm not insulted. I'm self tought without much schooling. I'm lucky to be able to spell anything or even work the computer which is something I could do not long ago. No insult taken by the way. I agree and that's why I posted the link as I stated earlier.
    There are diverse people on this forum. Some have Doctorates; some probably GEDs, at best. Your communication skills are fine.

  25. #25
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    (back from trip to Topix forum)

    It's always fun rubbing morons faces in their own mental deficiencies, well at least when they deserve it. I've always loved how those that have no facts, when presented with the facts, find their concepts crumbling and nonexistent.

    Well after throwing some real information there, hopefully those that are really interested will come here as I directed. If I bring one other into our group, it was worth the headache.
    Last edited by UnfetteredMight; 02-14-2011 at 08:49 PM.

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