Northern Ky OC = Insighting panic and jail time

If you read this thread you can see there is more to it than me listening to a police scanner. I stand behind what I said and if you have not had this happen then good for you. As I said I have a meeting coming up and this will be brought out and it's not the first time I have ask but it will be time to not let PD push it under the rug with a simple one or two sentence and then move on as they have in the past.

As for learning to write in paragraphs and other remarks. I'm not a very educated person compared to most. I know when to stop and that is why I ask for help with the above link. Thanks you everyone that has posted by the way. I'm not insulted. I'm self tought without much schooling. I'm lucky to be able to spell anything or even work the computer which is something I could do not long ago. No insult taken by the way. I agree and that's why I posted the link as I stated earlier.

Superlite27 said:

Walking your dog on a leash is also a legal activity. If someone spies your German Shephard and is scared to death or freaks out because they are afraid of dogs, will you be cited for insighting panic?

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Excellent analogy.

Rebstew said:

New guy that was surfing and happen across the forum. Very nice set you guys have. I was just wondering if anyone has had to deal with the OC laws in Northern Ky.

Newport, Covington, Ft. Thomas ect ect ect will not let you carry open. I use to do it out in the county with little problem. Moving to the city has been completely different. I have had many people talk to me about this issue and have heard some stuff on the police scanner. If you are carry open here the police will stop you no matter where you are. They will ask for your ID and give you the run around trying to figure out what you are doing. It is so unnatural to carry open here that the police are instantly intimidated. When you explain to them that you are not breaking the law and that Ky is an open carry state they tell you, that law doesn't stop local department with issueing you with an insighting panic citation. You are given the option of returning to your car to lock it up or walking home and unstrap. Then you are free to do as you wish. If you refuse then you can be cited for insighting panic and or failure to disburse.

So this has really bugged me. Can someone shed some light on this. If someone is scared to death or freaks out because they are afraid of guns and a police officers seen that happen then I may be able to understand getting cited for insighting panic. But that, as far as I know has never been the case. It's just Northern Ky's way of keeping you from doing what is legal.

Any thoughts on this?

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I'm missing something here. Are you saying that this has happened to you repeatedly? OC of a firearm in KY is completely legal and any detention based purely upon doing so is false arrest and or violation of the 4th Amendment. In no state will a BS charge of going armed to the terror of the people (my favorite from NC), disorderly conduct, brandishing, etc stand for legally carrying an at all times holstered pistol openly where it is not a violation of the law. And the SC has held that no RAS for a stop can exist solely based upon lawful open carry; therefore, no detention would be legal. Failing detention, just AMF the cop and walk away. Not to say that a cop can't start a 'friendly' chat with you, but you have no legal duty to talk to him at all or stick around.

Rebstew said:

If you read this thread you can see there is more to it than me listening to a police scanner. I stand behind what I said and if you have not had this happen then good for you. As I said I have a meeting coming up and this will be brought out and it's not the first time I have ask but it will be time to not let PD push it under the rug with a simple one or two sentence and then move on as they have in the past.

As for learning to write in paragraphs and other remarks. I'm not a very educated person compared to most. I know when to stop and that is why I ask for help with the above link. Thanks you everyone that has posted by the way. I'm not insulted. I'm self tought without much schooling. I'm lucky to be able to spell anything or even work the computer which is something I could do not long ago. No insult taken by the way. I agree and that's why I posted the link as I stated earlier.

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There are diverse people on this forum. Some have Doctorates; some probably GEDs, at best. Your communication skills are fine.

(back from trip to Topix forum)

It's always fun rubbing morons faces in their own mental deficiencies, well at least when they deserve it. I've always loved how those that have no facts, when presented with the facts, find their concepts crumbling and nonexistent.

Well after throwing some real information there, hopefully those that are really interested will come here as I directed. If I bring one other into our group, it was worth the headache.

Non sequitur, or did I miss something?

Gunslinger said:

Non sequitur, or did I miss something?

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It would make sense if you go to the topix forum from the link on this thread and read the "discussion" between some of the members and I.

I'm telling you guys this whole thing is fishy. We've rarely had OC issues in this part of Kentucky before and all the sudden "Mr. Police scanner" comes along and is ready to raise holy hell with local PDs over incidents he has yet to provide any specific example of or proof that they occured.

The whole thing sounds suspicious. Why stir up problems in area where we've had very few of them?


This guy is going to goto the local pd at his "meeting" and make us all look like nutcases.

I mean seriously, who sits around listening to a police scanner? Why do you even have one? No offense, but you sound like someone who kinda needs to mind their own buisness. If you get hassled OC, then come tell us about, don't come on here with wild stories that are based largely on hearsay and "your scanner".

trooper46 said:

I'm telling you guys this whole thing is fishy. We've rarely had OC issues in this part of Kentucky before and all the sudden "Mr. Police scanner" comes along and is ready to raise holy hell with local PDs over incidents he has yet to provide any specific example of or proof that they occured.

The whole thing sounds suspicious. Why stir up problems in area where we've had very few of them?


This guy is going to goto the local pd at his "meeting" and make us all look like nutcases.

I mean seriously, who sits around listening to a police scanner? Why do you even have one? No offense, but you sound like someone who kinda needs to mind their own buisness. If you get hassled OC, then come tell us about, don't come on here with wild stories that are based largely on hearsay and "your scanner".

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I'm not buying into the "problem" either, but the OP hasn't posted since last night. Let's give him the opportunity (if he takes it) to come back and report how his meeting went - with whom, where etc.; details that can be confirmed.

trooper46 said:

I'm telling you guys this whole thing is fishy. We've rarely had OC issues in this part of Kentucky before and all the sudden "Mr. Police scanner" comes along and is ready to raise holy hell with local PDs over incidents he has yet to provide any specific example of or proof that they occured.

The whole thing sounds suspicious. Why stir up problems in area where we've had very few of them?


This guy is going to goto the local pd at his "meeting" and make us all look like nutcases.

I mean seriously, who sits around listening to a police scanner? Why do you even have one? No offense, but you sound like someone who kinda needs to mind their own buisness. If you get hassled OC, then come tell us about, don't come on here with wild stories that are based largely on hearsay and "your scanner".

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I would be somewhat inclined to agree.

If there was such a problem up there, how come no one took me up on my offer on the other forum?

For those that don't feel like going and reading, I made an open offer for anyone to up some gas money and I would drive up there and OC right past the PD, into town, stores, do some shopping, etc.

I'll take a spin on the "Kentucky Lottery" in exchange for a night in jail over a false arrest for OC.

All I ran into were a few vehemently anti OC people on the site, that couldn't debate their way out of putting a gun to their own head and pulling the trigger.

UnfetteredMight said:

It would make sense if you go to the topix forum from the link on this thread and read the "discussion" between some of the members and I.

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Wilco, tnx.

Were I having a problem with OC in Campbell County (which is where Newport, Southgate, Wilder, etc. are) I might contact the Judge-Executives there if I thought additional assistance was needed. Specifically, the newly elected J-E who also happens to own a gunshop right in downtown Newport. I don't care for him much as a person or businessman, but in his elected position he would almost certainly come down on our side with regards to firearms issues.

So endeth today's lesson. +1

Well put. :exclaim:

From Rebstew
I'm not sure where to start or why I should. First off I came to this forum because of a common interest. I ask a question to further educate myself on the carry laws and if I had an issue with LEO how I could handle it. I thought if anyone could shed some light on what I have seen and or heard it would be here. Most have been very nice. But other have made me feel unwelcome, uneducted, belittled and made out for a liar. I understand that noone know who I am here but it seems that some are willing to stay here and agree with each other but if there is a problem that may need to be addressed and rock the boat a little then they don't want any part of it.

Grapeshot said:

I'm not buying into the "problem" either, but the OP hasn't posted since last night. Let's give him the opportunity (if he takes it) to come back and report how his meeting went - with whom, where etc.; details that can be confirmed.

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I was further shocked by this I'm not sure if Grapeshot is the Admin or Mod but he post that we will give him the opportunity (if he takes it) ??? I was banned or unable to post due to a Admin or Mod blocking me before that was posted! How could I reply with how it went when this was done? Not cool at all.
Below is what pops up when I try to post using my first screen name.


vBulletin version 4.11. Please let me know if you experience any issues.
vBulletin Message
Rebstew, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1: Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2: If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

With the negitive feedback I have got from some, this will be my last post here. I hope all of you the best. I do feel like some was very helpfull but the turnout from other leaves little to be desired for me here.
I have recieved a few replies from an email that was sent out to some of the Northern Ky PD's. The email I sent was this:

I am writing in regards to carrying an open firearm within your city limits. I carry an unconcealed sidearm for personal protection. Side holster with my shirt tucked it. No way shape or form concealed. What I wanted to know is where your department stands on this issue. It has been said that carrying an open firearm could result in a citation of some sort, either inciting panic or a disorderly conduct charge by the police department. As I understand Kentucky is a open carry state and it is legal for me to carry my sidearm open in your city. If I am mistaken I would like to know before I have a run in with the police department.
If you can not answer this question can you forward it to someone that may.

I didn't get any reply from Covington, Highland Hights, Dayton or Wilder. I tried to get a responce from a few people in Newport, including the Chief but nothing was ever returned. I tried one other officer that most seem to like around here, Lt. Thomas Collins. This was his reply:

Steve, you are absolutely right. You have the ability to carry your firearm. However, if someone calls the police and feels you are causing a public alarm, inducing panic or could be a danger, the notification could cause the "run in with the police department" you spoke of in your email. There are many variables that would determine the outcome of this very loaded question. Anyone that would give you a yes or no response is not looking at this question in its totality. There are several scenarios that could be played out given different results. What seems simple is not.

He also forward the email to a few other people in the department and also to Thomas Fromme which use to be the Chief of Police but is now City Manager. I was hoping he would reply to this but he didn't. The email was a little better than what I thought would be said but still a little vague. At least he replied. The meeting I have is for the Newport Crime Watch this Thursday. Where there will be a Corporal from Newport PD. I will bring this up to him and see what he says about it. My replies from here on out on this subject will go on the topix forum since this has causes so much grief here. The link is on the fist page of this thread.

Noone is trying to cause trouble or get stuff started with PD as some on here have said. It's just a question I would like anwsered if a LEO stopped me would he have the right or think he does and or would he cite me. I'm not saying it's right, if they do I know it's not. Educating everyone in Northern Ky about open carry would go a long way here. I'm refering to LEO and citizens. There are people on the other forum that has been educated on the OC in Ky but if they think that PD will give them grief over it do you think they will? If they know for a fact that OC will not bring up a citation and or jail time they may be more open to this. Some are saying that they have not had an issue here and I'm just causing trouble. Well if you knew me you would know that is not what I'm about. I also don't sit and listen to the scanner all day as someone said. I don't even have one in my house. I have one in my garage and if I'm out there tinkering around and there is nothing on the TV then I listen to it.

Ft. Thomas repied with a nice email. Saying that OC is legal and they will only stop someone for OC if a citizens calls. They have to show up. But he did say that if person that OC is legal that no action will be taken.
Bellvue, Ky was a blessing to read and right on. I'll leave out of here with that reply from them. Glad I got to talk to a few like minded people on here. It was a pleasure. For the rest?? I won't say anything.

Bellevue PD's reply:
Thank you for taking the time to send your question. Keep in mind that the following information is provided solely for your convenience and is not intended to constitute a formal legal opinion or legal advice. You may wish to consult an attorney about this topic.
The quick answer to your question is that it is not illegal to carry an unconcealed weapon in the Commonwealth of Kentucky (with a few exceptions) as long as you may legally possess a weapon. This applies to any legal weapon, including a firearm. I am a strong supporter of gun-ownership rights, and I am happy that Kentucky remains on the correct side on this issue.
However, as you might suspect, the general public in an urban area (such as Bellevue ) is not used to seeing non-uniformed personnel openly carrying side-arms. The fact that you sent me your question tells me that you understand that point pretty well already.
There are cases in Kentucky where people have been charged with disorderly conduct or similar crimes for openly carrying a firearm. However, those cases that are challenged usually end up in dismissal (absent other extenuating circumstances).
You asked me if you are likely to “have a run-in” with the police department if you openly carry a firearm. Well, I am not sure what you consider a “run-in”. But to be honest, in this city, if you are openly carrying a firearm, it is likely that someone will call the police. If they call, we will have to respond to that call, so it is likely that you will have an encounter with one or more of our officers. Maybe on a repeated basis. Not because we want to cause distress, but because we have to respond if a complaint is made or we are called. There will be some people who want you arrested, because they will feel threatened. But as long as you are not behaving in a threatening manner, or making threats, and as long as you are not otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm, then this should all work out.
If I may make a friendly suggestion: Kentucky also issues concealed carry permits. Obtaining a permit is a simple process, and with that permit, it is legal to carry a firearm in a concealed manner. This may be a reasonable option for you. It would permit you to have a firearm in your possession, without the hassle of alarming the general public (because the gun would be out of sight). I think, considering the sentiment of the people of this city, this would be a wiser choice for you. You might want to explore this as an option. This link will provide you with more information on this topic: http://kentuckystatepolice.org/conceal.htm.
Take care.
Wm. Cole
"Happiness and moral duty are inseparably connected." - George Washington
&&&
William Cole
Chief of Police
Bellevue, KY 41073
859-261-1122
william.cole@bellevueky.org
www.bellevuekypolice.org

A simple check of Rebstew 's profile shows that he has not been banned or blocked.

Maybe there was a clinch in the system or maybe he did not log in before trying to post.

The various different replies he got from several LEAs demonstrates why it is never beneficial to ask a LEO what is legal - that is perhaps the most consistant admonition we make.

I think it is unfortunate that Rebstew/1911Ky feels put upon or slighted. If he gave himself and us a chance, there would be much he could learn - lots of good folks here with tons of experience.

UnfetteredMight said:

(back from trip to Topix forum)

It's always fun rubbing morons faces in their own mental deficiencies, well at least when they deserve it. I've always loved how those that have no facts, when presented with the facts, find their concepts crumbling and nonexistent.

Well after throwing some real information there, hopefully those that are really interested will come here as I directed. If I bring one other into our group, it was worth the headache.

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I attempted to leave a message over there but it didn't post for some reason. Lawman obviously has NO IDEA what he's talking about! But then again, that place is well known for it's completl and total lack of truth, commonsense, and intellect. God knows what kind of crap you'll read there.

Perhaps I should elaborate, I dropped out of school in the eighth grade and my only diploma
is my GED I got in Ft Gordon around 35 years ago, gun rights activism has opened quite a few doors for me.
I've learned ancient Greek history ( molon labe ) and critical thinking due to incessant debates on the origins and history of our fine 2nd Amendment.

When I first started frequenting gun forums and internet debate I quickly found out that my writing style needed vast improvement in order to be taken seriously by both "us" and "them" .

So rebstew, please keep coming back, we need more "us" not more "them"

I still don't have a handle on its it's and then than! Fortunately I get your you're and they're there their!

BTW, rebstew-you simply got an error message, everyone gets them its why its called the "errornet"

chrsjhnsn said:

Perhaps I should elaborate, I dropped out of school in the eighth grade and my only diploma
is my GED I got in Ft Gordon around 35 years ago, gun rights activism has opened quite a few doors for me.
I've learned ancient Greek history ( molon labe ) and critical thinking due to incessant debates on the origins and history of our fine 2nd Amendment.

When I first started frequenting gun forums and internet debate I quickly found out that my writing style needed vast improvement in order to be taken seriously by both "us" and "them" .

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You done good. :lol:

gutshot said:

The County Judge/Exec has nothing to say about the conduct of a Newport city policeman. He might be the most pro-gun person in the world, but he has no authority in city business.

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Since you were responding to me with this post, let me make a thing or two more clear.
I have had no problems OC'ing in northern Kentucky. Heck, in Ohio for that matter. Like you, I know the laws and my rights, not ambivalent about the exercise of those rights one bit. Reading your posts I'd say we're somewhat kindred spirits, sir.

I don't even like that Campbell County Commisioner/Exec I alluded to. But he's been a businessman in Newport for years and years. Now, he's also an elected official. To say that his input in such matters, regardless of actual authority, would be ignored, well let's just say he's a link in the chain, someplace, whether the flow chart of city or county governments say so or not.

*********************************

To give an analogy from here in Ohio, at first the sheriff of Hamilton Co. (Cincy area) was making it hard to get CHL's. I had a little chat with his "fiscal overseer", the County Auditor, about how HamCo. was losing license revenue to neighboring counties.

Wasn't long after that, it suddenly became easier and more friendly to get a CHL in HamCo. Never asked the auditor exactly how much our conversation played a part in the change, but--let's say I gave him some solid ground to stand on when he spoke to the sheriff on the matter.

I've found, somewhat to my chagrin, there's always a been a grain of truth to "It's not just what you know but who you know", human nature being what it is. Fortunately the auditor, in addition to being a stand up individual, and sort of a pal of mine, is VERY pro-2nd Amendment. (And a longtime Democrat, they aren't ALL "gun grabbers"!)

Grapeshot said:

A simple check of Rebstew 's profile shows that he has not been banned or blocked.

Maybe there was a clinch in the system or maybe he did not log in before trying to post.

The various different replies he got from several LEAs demonstrates why it is never beneficial to ask a LEO what is legal - that is perhaps the most consistant admonition we make.

I think it is unfortunate that Rebstew/1911Ky feels put upon or slighted. If he gave himself and us a chance, there would be much he could learn - lots of good folks here with tons of experience.

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+1