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Thread: Anyone in The Roanoke area hear about a man in Kroger store spraying something?

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    Regular Member celticredneck's Avatar
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    Anyone in The Roanoke area hear about a man in Kroger store spraying something?

    My daughter called, on the way home from bowling last night. She had stopped at a local Kroger store and on the way home, the vehicle in front of her T-boned a motor scooter that was being chased by police. It seems that the guy on the scooter had walked into the Kroger just after she left, wearing some kind of mask and started spraying something all around in the air using a hand sprayer.

    Carry related, what should you do if something like that happened while you were in the store carrying. Should you draw and try to stop him? And, would the response be different if he advanced on you and started to spray you. You wouldn't know if it was just some kook spraying water around, or a terrorist spraying anthrax or something equally as bad.

    My idea, if he wasn't spraying me would be to try and get out of the store and call 911. If he was to try and spray me, I'm not sure what I would do. This is totally different than someone advancing on you with a gun or knife.

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    If he is yelling "ALLAH AKBAR" while he's spraying the stuff, then you should probably shoot.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Too many unknowns.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I think it would be justified if you pulled your HG if someone advanced on you pointing an object which could be a gun at you. Consider a LEO response which would be to shoot if pointed upon using a garden hose handle.

    I'd try to retreat first, though, and I -might- aim for the kneecap (lol). I mean, c'mon, it could be acid, bacteria, who knows. But I wouldn't want to go to jail for shooting a nut who was a germ-o-phobe.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Did he survive the accident?

    TFred

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    Were the person simply spraying an unknown substance on me I'd likely use my pepper spray on them rather than a handgun. At the least the person would be assaulting me with an unkown chemical which I would take as a threat to my health and wellbeing. If the person yelled they were spreading some terrible deadly disease I might consider using the handgun given the ramifications of their continued spraying and hope that my voice recorder picked up the yelling. I would not first assume that the person had their hands on some means of biological weapon though.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    As already mentioned, too mank unknown variables.

    As for the folks thinking that whatever is being sprayed is some sort of biohazard/bioweapon -- You do realize that by staying in the area to draw down on and shoot the BG you are exposing yourself to the consequences of whatever it is the BG is spraying?

    We, the peaceable, law-abiding people who carry for self defense need to remember that we are NOT law enforcement/homeland security and that just about all of us have family/significant others who are in many ways dependent on us remaining alive and productive. I'm not saying we should never come to the defense/support of an innocent third party, but the times when we will face such a situation when we can know for sure that the 3rd party is truely innocent are mighty slim.

    To state it bluntly - you better be darned sure you are willing to die a horrible, painful death before you go charging in to take down some guy you think might be spraying bioweapons or acid at other people who still have the opportunity to run away on their own. And dependingon your position in the landscape, your intervention with gun(s) blazing might just cut off their only safe exit route.

    We, the peaceable, law-abiding people who carry for self defense, respond - we do not react. Or at least that's the way I see it ought to be.

    stay safe.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Too many unknowns.
    +1


    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    As already mentioned, too mank unknown variables.

    As for the folks thinking that whatever is being sprayed is some sort of biohazard/bioweapon -- You do realize that by staying in the area to draw down on and shoot the BG you are exposing yourself to the consequences of whatever it is the BG is spraying?

    We, the peaceable, law-abiding people who carry for self defense need to remember that we are NOT law enforcement/homeland security and that just about all of us have family/significant others who are in many ways dependent on us remaining alive and productive. I'm not saying we should never come to the defense/support of an innocent third party, but the times when we will face such a situation when we can know for sure that the 3rd party is truely innocent are mighty slim.

    To state it bluntly - you better be darned sure you are willing to die a horrible, painful death before you go charging in to take down some guy you think might be spraying bioweapons or acid at other people who still have the opportunity to run away on their own. And dependingon your position in the landscape, your intervention with gun(s) blazing might just cut off their only safe exit route.

    We, the peaceable, law-abiding people who carry for self defense, respond - we do not react. Or at least that's the way I see it ought to be.

    stay safe.
    +2

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I think the OP's question/posting was to get discussion going on how a device other than an handgun could be just as deadly and much harder to distinguish as potentially lethal.

    Truth is, if you're in a small store and someone comes at you and raises a spray can, you're going to get sprayed. You are not at 'condition red' and are shopping not in SD mode.

    I would -want- to shoot someone who did that, and I think they deserve it and if it was a LEO and he had his gun out he would shoot the person as they raised the can.

    If I saw the perp spraying others and they were falling down I'd draw and warn and be prepared to shoot. Failing that much info, I'd retreat but still probably draw my HG, also.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    I would -want- to shoot someone who did that, and I think they deserve it and if it was a LEO and he had his gun out he would shoot the person as they raised the can.
    You make such judgments with such little info? Please do me a favor and stay home.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member crazydude6030's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You make such judgments with such little info? Please do me a favor and stay home.
    I think he is trying to express how mad he would be if someone sprayed him in the face, not that he would do such action.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazydude6030 View Post
    I think he is trying to express how mad he would be if someone sprayed him in the face, not that he would do such action.
    You may be right, but his words do not express it that way.
    I would -want- to shoot someone who did that, and I think they deserve it and if it was a LEO and he had his gun out he would shoot the person as they raised the can.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member crazydude6030's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You may be right, but his words do not express it that way.
    Well that's how I read it. The -want- expressed like that is emotional more than a real desire to. I could be wrong, but I'll give him the benefit of doubt unless or until the poster clarifies.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazydude6030 View Post
    Well that's how I read it. The -want- expressed like that is emotional more than a real desire to. I could be wrong, but I'll give him the benefit of doubt unless or until the poster clarifies.
    Sadly, words have to be chosen carefully these days. What you say here as an expression of emotion, may very well come back to bite you on the ass if you ever have to use your gun.

    Not many here are really anonymous.

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    Regular Member crazydude6030's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Sadly, words have to be chosen carefully these days. What you say here as an expression of emotion, may very well come back to bite you on the ass if you ever have to use your gun.

    Not many here are really anonymous.
    I agree, that's why i don't post much. Speaking of I think i hit my limit for the next few months.

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    Regular Member celticredneck's Avatar
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    I just talked with my daughter again, and she doesn't have any more information yet. Her understanding was that it was something similar to a small garden sprayer, not a spray can, and that the guy wore something like a gas mask. But she might not know the difference between a gas mask and an ordinary dust mask. As I said originally, my first choice would be to get out and call the police. But if I was unable to get away, I can't say what I'd do, since I obviously wasn't in the situation, nor was she. In the world as it is today, we can't assume that anyone doing something like that is harmless? Yet, should I or anyone else decide to shoot, what if he really was harmless? It's a situation I am glad I wasn't faced with or that my daughter was faced with it. Anyhow, she is going to check the newspapers after work today to see if there is any more information.
    Last edited by celticredneck; 02-11-2011 at 01:57 PM.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazydude6030 View Post
    I agree, that's why i don't post much. Speaking of I think i hit my limit for the next few months.
    Your screen name doesn't help either!
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by celticredneck View Post
    I just talked with my daughter again, and she doesn't have any more information yet. Her understanding was that it was something similar to a small garden sprayer, not a spray can, and that the guy wore something like a gas mask. But she might not know the difference between a gas mask and an ordinary dust mask. As I said originally, my first choice would be to get out and call the police. But if I was unable to get away, I can't say what I'd do, since I obviously wasn't in the situation, nor was she. In the world as it is today, we can't assume that anyone doing something like that is harmless? Yet, should I or anyone else decide to shoot, what if he really was harmless? It's a situation I am glad I wasn't faced with or that my daughter was faced with it. Anyhow, she is going to check the newspapers after work today to see if there is any more information.
    Sounds more like the Orkin pesticide guy then any sort of threat....

    Hopefully more information will come out soon.

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    The best option is a retreat from the area in this scenario. There are times where the least action is beneficial. Pulling a firearm when the ability to retreat is present is not always the best option. At best you protect yourself or others. At worst you are charged with brandishing or aggravated assault; if you fire the weapon, the possible charges are malicious wounding or homicide.

    Take time to assess a situation before going for the gun.

  20. #20
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by palerider116 View Post
    The best option is a retreat
    We're not retreating. We're advancing in the opposite direction.

    Hoo-ah.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    Just a thought that might help...

    In the military, one of the things we are taught when unknowns outside our perimeter pop smoke or gas type attack, check and see if the bad guys are wearing gas masks or protection. This gives an indication of lethal (bio or chemical) / annoying (tear gas) / distracting (just smoke).

    However.... this really only works for groups in a planned attack or distraction.

    A lone person, willing to die "for whatever cause", starts spraying an unknown chemical could be looking to just take a lot of people with him/her.

    Like all scenarios, too many variables. Make your best call and be ready to back up your decision logically afterward (with a lawyer present).
    Last edited by Lord Sega; 02-11-2011 at 11:54 PM.

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