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Thread: Post Office Question

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Post Office Question

    We all know that firearms are not allowed on Post Office property, and that includes in the parking lot.

    However, what about a Post Office annex? More to the point, there's a Post Office inside a nearby CopyIt (it's like Kinkos). It's a small office, about 6' x 9'. I checked with CopyIt and they confirmed that CopyIt owns the entire building, and that the USPS rents the small room in which it conducts business.

    Technically, that office is still a Post Office. However, technically, neither the land nor the building is federally owned.

    Questions:

    1. Can I carry a firearm in CopyIt if my business is strictly with CopyIt?

    2. Can I carry a firearm if I'm conducting business at the Post Office window inside CopyIt?

    At no time would I or my firearm ever enter their 6'x9' room. When one is standing at the window, one is squarely standing on CopyIt territory.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  2. #2
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Is there a sign posted?

    I am sure nothing would be considered a post office except for the square footage the actually leased.


    IANAL
    Last edited by lockman; 02-11-2011 at 05:31 PM. Reason: spelling

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    You would not be able to carry in the specific locations that the USPS was leasing. In the parts of the building that they are not leasing, carry would not violate regulations. If the USPS has not leased the parking lot, you should be able to carry in the parking lot.

    IANAL.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    Is there a sign posted?
    There's no sign prohibiting firearms. The only sign is a small sticker on the entrance to CopyIt which says "Contract Postal Unit" (CPU).

    I Googled "contract postal unit" and "firearms" and stumbled across this thread.

    gluegun is erring on the side of caution, saying not to carry anywhere in front of the counter or the area where customers can choose which USPS boxes or USPS enevelopes they need, so ok to carry in the store, but steer clear of the USPS area. Statkowski argues that the only thing which may be considered USPS property are the boxes, envelopes, and on or behind the counter. Thus, so long as I and my firearm remain in front of the counter, instead of on it or behind it, we're ok.

    I'm willing to bet a court of law would side with gluegun.

    As it is, I left my gun in my car. I did ask the clerk behind the counter, and he said, "I don't know, but it wouldn't bother me either way." Unfortunately, all it would take would be one complaint from another USPS customer. I'd rather keep my backside out of that sling, so from now on, any time I need to use that CPU, my gun stays in the car.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Addendum: I found USPS PO-209, Handbook for Retail Operations, and discovered section 13.6.1, Mandatory Postings requires management to display Poster 158, "Possession of Firearms and Other Dangerous Weapons on Postal Property Is Prohibited by Law"

    No such poster was displayed anywhere in or around the CPU.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  6. #6
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    Unless things have changed, USPS contract sub-stations operating out of shared retail premises are customarily operated by non-postal contract employees of the USPS contractor. Exclusive USPS leased POST OFFICE facilities are staffed by USPS employees. Unless a designated parking area is set aside under the lease for the exclusive use of the USPS for POST OFFICE operations the USPS has no authority to restrict access in any manner.

    The INTERIOR of the restricted access area of a CPU falls under the enforcement jurisdiction of USPS Postal Inspection Service because U.S. Mail is secured there. The CPU service counter separates the CPU operation from contractor's non-postal operation. The customer side of the counter is not a U.S. Mail secure area.

    As a matter of personal discretion, I would not OC standing at the counter because it would be potentially problematic- but it would not be illegal in Colorado. Ofcourse I have no reason to stand at that counter because I do all of my UPS, FED-EX, or USPS shipping through private services - who I assume are also contacted agents for the USPS, but not exclusively as in the case in question.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 02-12-2011 at 06:03 PM.

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    This thread reminds me of this entertaining tale (from http://scarymonsters.net/~corleyj/fraud/mailfraud.html ):
    American postal inspectors have a very high solved-crime rate, higher than almost all other law enforcement units in America. This tradition has been well-established for many years. Dutch Shultz, the famous gangster, once forbade his men from robbing the mails for just that reason, saying "Only an idiot robs a post office, and I don't want any idiots working for me." In a small-town robbery of a combination general store and post office, burglars once drew a chalk line across the entrance to the post office area and wrote 'Inspectors - we did not cross this line' next to it.
    Maybe CopyIt should draw a chalk line ...

  8. #8
    Regular Member Campo6245's Avatar
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    I spoke to the BATF earlier today and they told me that you need to find out the law within your state. They said that each state regulates the laws for allowing guns in a post office. I am located in Rhode Island and I called the AG's office and other police departments and no one can give me a straight answer. I would like to have the exact law and where it is cited so that I can carry it with me, just like a do carry the copy of the law that states I am allowed to open carry with an AG permit because I have been trumped on it before. Anyone from RI send me a PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Campo6245 View Post
    I spoke to the BATF earlier today...
    I keep telling folks not to ask LE what the laws says. Many don't know. Many don't want to know. They have no obligation to know. Some are motivated to tell you incorrectly. There are myths circulating about what the laws says among LEOs (especially in my State, Alabama). Never ever ever ask LE what the law says.

    Read the law yourself. Or ask a lawyer. Or ask folks like those here, who will read (or have read) the law, will give you the answer, and will cite the pertinent law!

  10. #10
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Illegal at the Federal level. State law has nothing to do with it.

    39 CFR 232.1
    http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....0.1.1&idno=39
    (l) Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.
    Isn't mailing a letter or buying postage an official purpose of the PO?
    Where do they define "official purpose"?
    I'm not eager to be a test case, but if they don't define their terms the law is useless.

    Actually, we all know the law is useless anyway, since it doesn't stop criminals from coming in armed to commit various crimes. And unless they have metal detectors (they don't) there's no way to stop someone from carrying concealed, or in a case, or a purse.

    If what they meant to say was "except for employees of governmental units or agencies while performing their official duties" why didn't they actually say that?
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    Regular Member Campo6245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I keep telling folks not to ask LE what the laws says. Many don't know. Many don't want to know. They have no obligation to know. Some are motivated to tell you incorrectly. There are myths circulating about what the laws says among LEOs (especially in my State, Alabama). Never ever ever ask LE what the law says.

    Read the law yourself. Or ask a lawyer. Or ask folks like those here, who will read (or have read) the law, will give you the answer, and will cite the pertinent law!
    YOU ARE CORRECT SIR! Lawyer, lawyer, lawyer. That is how to get the information. Unfortunately, it usually costs money to get this type of work performed. Perhaps we should all donate $5bucks each and hire a lawyer to look up, review and cite, a group of questions, us pistol permit holders have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Campo6245 View Post
    YOU ARE CORRECT SIR! Lawyer, lawyer, lawyer. That is how to get the information. Unfortunately, it usually costs money to get this type of work performed. Perhaps we should all donate $5bucks each and hire a lawyer to look up, review and cite, a group of questions, us pistol permit holders have?
    Nah. The folks here are pretty good at the research. And VERY good at citing what they have found.

    For free.

  13. #13
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Nah. The folks here are pretty good at the research. And VERY good at citing what they have found.

    For free.
    Which should not discourage you from donation $5. PM me for mailing instructions.
    Heheheh.

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