2011 Open carry legislation

patriotthad · Feb 11, 2011

I received a return call from my rep, Paul Fitzwater. He stated that we needed some "Common sense" legislation passed and stated that he would start right away. I have gathered some info for him already but, I have ran across a new twist. What and where is the "written consent" for OC??? If any one could give your reps a call that would be very helpful.

sohighlyunlikely · Feb 12, 2011

patriotthad said:
I received a return call from my rep, Paul Fitzwater. He stated that we needed some "Common sense" legislation passed and stated that he would start right away. I have gathered some info for him already but, I have ran across a new twist. What and where is the "written consent" for OC??? If any one could give your reps a call that would be very helpful.

If you are asking what gives Missourians the legal right to carry a firearm that would be Section 1 article 23 of Missouri Constitution. If you are referring to what give cities and towns the legal standing to make OC illegal that would be section 21-750. It's all written out here.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?85219-Answer-to-how-is-Open-Carry-legal-in-Missouri

Doc

9026543 · Feb 12, 2011

sohighlyunlikely said:
If you are asking what gives Missourians the legal right to carry a firearm that would be Section 1 article 23 of Missouri Constitution. If you are referring to what give cities and towns the legal standing to make OC illegal that would be section 21-750. It's all written out here.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?85219-Answer-to-how-is-Open-Carry-legal-in-Missouri

Doc

And I firmly believe that section 21-750 violates Section 1 Article 23 of the Missouri Constitution and that part that allows cities to prohibit OC should be removed.

mspgunner · Feb 12, 2011

9026543 said:
And I firmly believe that section 21-750 violates Section 1 Article 23 of the Missouri Constitution and that part that allows cities to prohibit OC should be removed.

You have to tell your legislators!!!! Go to Gun Day in Jeffereson City. Oh, you can get arrested and challange it is court. That takes some time, money and freedom lost days from work. I bug the heck out of my Rep and Senator. Sure they are all pro-2A, what do they sponsor? Not a darn thing, just like yours.

peterarthur · Feb 13, 2011

sohighlyunlikely said:
"If you are asking what gives Missourians the legal right to carry a firearm that would be ....."Doc

...the "Creator", or the fact that I EXIST gives me the right, however you prefer to think about it. My sovereignty as an individual gives me the right to do ANYTHING I want that does not violate the rights of another. All people of all ages have always understood the right to self-preservation. Every justice system in the history of men has understood and upheld this glaring right in some measure. It is inherent, obvious and immutable. The state and US Constitutions only "protect" that right.

I know most of you already knew that

I just like to say it lots of different ways when I get the chance.

mspgunner · Feb 13, 2011

OC

Of course - good point, but that won't change the Missouri Statutes. OC through out the State of Missouri would be good. The public needs to learn it's not the firearm, it's the idiots. We just have to convince the legislature.... NOT EASY!

patriotthad · Feb 13, 2011

I'm not asking what statute allows cities to regulate OC. My question should be, does any one know of a city that requires written permission to OC. And, anyone who gets arrested for doing something that they know is prohibited on April 6th, at the capitol, will be more of a hinderance to the cause than a help. Use SOME sense.

sohighlyunlikely · Feb 14, 2011

patriotthad said:
I'm not asking what statute allows cities to regulate OC. My question should be, does any one know of a city that requires written permission to OC. And, anyone who gets arrested for doing something that they know is prohibited on April 6th, at the capitol, will be more of a hindrance to the cause than a help. Use SOME sense.

There are basically 3 jurisdictions that hold on to an old hunting law that says you can't enter onto the property of another without written permission, and use that law to harass OCers. Wildwood/ Chesterfield/ Unincorporated sections of St Louis County. They can't use it to address CCW as that is all Pre-emanate. I can post the codes if you like. Per Mspgunner (You can find him 2 posts above this one). Wildwood has said they will arrest you on site for OCing. They are even saying public property ie streets and sidewalks belong to them and you can't OC there. Even though they have no law restricting Open Carry.

Doc

patriotthad · Feb 14, 2011

Thanks, that is more what I was needing.

mspgunner · Feb 14, 2011

sohighlyunlikely said:
There are basically 3 jurisdictions that hold on to an old hunting law that says you can't enter onto the property of another without written permission, and use that law to harass OCers. Wildwood/ Chesterfield/ Unincorporated sections of St Louis County. They can't use it to address CCW as that is all Pre-emanate. I can post the codes if you like. Per Mspgunner (You can find him 2 posts above this one). Wildwood has said they will arrest you on site for OCing. They are even saying public property ie streets and sidewalks belong to them and you can't OC there. Even though they have no law restricting Open Carry.

Doc

That's about right. I just checked the Missouri House Bill site, there are no bills presently to eliminate the ban which can imposed the restriction of OC in Missouri by the Cities that wish to do so. It would be nice to get this behind, but I don't see it happening....

patriotthad · Feb 16, 2011

Rep. Fitzwater has drafted OC legislation that will require a CCW to OC. It will pre-empt all localities. Will keep you posted.

SavageOne · Feb 16, 2011

patriotthad said:
Rep. Fitzwater has drafted OC legislation that will require a CCW to OC. It will pre-empt all localities. Will keep you posted.

So, this legislation would require citizens to pay for something they can do now legally without paying for? No offense, but I don't wish to have my Second Amendment right to carry a firearm limited by the hurdles and stipulations the State feels necessary to be granted the privilege of carrying concealed.

patriotthad · Feb 16, 2011

CCW $38 Required training $75 Total $113.
Cost of being arrested in a city that has a ban on OC,
Fourth Class city $500+ Court cost.
1st class city $1000? + court cost.
Lawyer fee $500+
Up to 3 months in jail
On your record for the rest of your life

Lets get this passed, we can iron out the fine print later.

SavageOne · Feb 16, 2011

I have never been one who believes trying to "iron out" the details after, is the right way to go with legislation. I applaud your attempts to get OC legal statewide, but cannot support this route. As it is now OC(or the Right To Keep And Bear Arms, if you will) is a right and the ability to conceal carry a weapon is a privilege granted by the State, after meeting minimum requirements and paying required fees. The proposed legislation would take the right I was born with an turn it into a privilege, granted(or denied) by the State.

mspgunner · Feb 16, 2011

patriotthad said:
Rep. Fitzwater has drafted OC legislation that will require a CCW to OC. It will pre-empt all localities. Will keep you posted.

Of course soem may not like this... Of course. But one thing it does is eliminate the mix of OC and no OC. Get the Cities out of the OC pictures and you can OC any where in the State except for the "prohibited places".

A good deal in my book. "Shall not be infringed" is infringed. The goal (IMHO) is to undo the "infringed". This is one way to do it. No one is going to remove the statute that exists, not gonna happen. Better to take this then nothing. My guess is, this won't even make it out of committee.

JDW · Feb 16, 2011

patriotthad said:
Rep. Fitzwater has drafted OC legislation that will require a CCW to OC. It will pre-empt all localities. Will keep you posted.

I'm all for preemption at the State level , however this is bad . Stop this at all cost now. this of course is only my opinion .

sohighlyunlikely · Feb 16, 2011

maybe

patriotthad said:
Rep. Fitzwater has drafted OC legislation that will require a CCW to OC. It will pre-empt all localities. Will keep you posted.

It really depends on how this bill is written to whether it would be detrimental or not. If it gained access to OC (even at the price of having a CCW) to the area's that currently do not allow OC, without requiring a CCW to continue OC in areas that do not require it then it would be a big step in the right direction.

Doc

goalseter88 · Feb 16, 2011

patriotthad said:
Rep. Fitzwater has drafted OC legislation that will require a CCW to OC. It will pre-empt all localities. Will keep you posted.

this MIGHT be better for people who would OC regardless if they had a CCW and had the choice to CCW. but what about the people who OC, B/C they cant afford the CCW. now they have no option. this isnt just about people who cant find the money either. what about the younger guys that arent 23, so their only option is to OC? they are ******, even if they have the money to get a CCW. you cant buy your age

plus when you get that CCW requirement added on, i dont think your going to iron that out later. once thats added, i think thats going to be perminent.

this would rule out the option to OC to to many people, weithers its due to lack of money or age etc, i cant justify having others lose their option to carry all together for me to support this.

patriotthad · Feb 16, 2011

I want every one to understand, I want a statewide right to OC without any permits. However, at this time that is impossible due to allowing cities to regulate OC. For example, in a small town in my area, one man OCed. The city council met and overnight passed a no OC ordinance. Now NO ONE can OC. We have wanted a statewide OC preemption for years. Now, we have a chance to get just that. As for those under 23, an out of state permit could be obtained at 18 years old from Utah. As to cost, look at my above post spelling out the fines, lawyer fees and etc. for simply being in a no OC town. Or, better yet a town that has no ban on OC but, arrests a person for peace disturbance etc. There are several states that have ironed out the flaws, AZ, AK, KY etc. In KY, a person had to have a ccw to oc. Not anymore. Now, they have a no ccw required law (OC). Lets get behind this, get it passed and everyone will become accustomed to OC. Then work on becoming a constitutional carry state.

Broondog · Feb 17, 2011

at this moment i cannot support this proposed "need CCW to OC" legislation.

i am of the camp that is A: permanently ineligible to obtain a MO CCW permit as the law is currently worded, and B: regardless of CCW eligibility simply refuse to pay a fee for a permit to allow me to do something that is clearly my inalienable right to do as stated in both the US and MO Constitutions.

it will take quite a bit of convincing to get me to support a bill such as this.

2011 Open carry legislation

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