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Thread: When is using deadly force lawful?

  1. #1
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    When is using deadly force lawful?

    FYI

    "Tactical Anatomy Systems is pleased to announce
    Massad Ayoob of Massad Ayoob Group will be holding an "MAG-20, Classroom - Deadly Force Course"
    at Saukville Police Department, 649 E. Green Bay Avenue, Saukville, Wisconsin 53080.
    This class will be held on Saturday, February 26, 2011 and Sunday, February 27, 2011.
    Class will start each day at 9:00 am and run until approximately 7:00 pm.

    MAG-20/Classroom:
    A two-day, 20-hour immersion course in rules of engagement for armed law-abiding private citizens with emphasizing legal issues, tactical issues, and aftermath management. Topics will include interacting with suspects, witnesses, responding police officers…threat recognition and mind-set…management of social and psychological aftermath after having had to use lethal force in defense of self or others…and preparing beforehand for legal repercussions and minimizing exposure to them. Situations in the home, at the place of business, or “on the street” will all be covered."

    I am not associated with this organization in any way and gain nothing by sharing the information with you. I registered for the class and thought others might want to as well. It is pricey, tuition is $400. I am of opinion that anyone carrying a firearm should be intensely aware of when using deadly force is lawful and when it is not. An error in judgment or a lack of knowledge, can land one in prison for years and or cost a **** ton in legal fees.

    To register, contact David Maglio at 414.659.5811 and he will mail you a registration form. Also, in the summer there is a Mag-20 range course. I imagine the range course is quite thorough as they require you to bring a minimum of 500 rounds of ammunition. For the schedule and locations of other courses, go to
    http://massadayoobgroup.com/?page_id=121

    As Massad says, "Do not fire the gun, unless the situation dictates that you are on solid legal ground."

  2. #2
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    Who is Massad Ayoob? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massad_Ayoob

    Also youtube video of a small portion of his class. Some good info here. There are 4 parts to the video series.
    Here is number 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW_xaTf5oqI

  3. #3
    McX
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    Be innocent of instigation, retreat, retreat, retreat. credo it- live by it, so to speak- on the grander scale. it wont make you heroic, it might might make you look like a wuss, but it's the way it is. Just do it, so to speak. Until the Castle Doctrine is put in place in this state. the rest is just debate.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Meet force with force...oh wait, that's not in this state.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  5. #5
    Regular Member bluehighways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    Be innocent of instigation, retreat, retreat, retreat. credo it- live by it, so to speak- on the grander scale. it wont make you heroic, it might might make you look like a wuss, but it's the way it is. Just do it, so to speak. Until the Castle Doctrine is put in place in this state. the rest is just debate.
    Perhaps the most important thing you've said here. Thank you McX.
    Last edited by bluehighways; 02-13-2011 at 03:20 AM.

  6. #6
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluehighways View Post
    Perhaps the most important thing you've said here. Thank you McX.
    everything i say is important, just like my wife and kids, sometimes no one listens. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/im...ons/icon10.png
    Talking

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    everything i say is important, just like my wife and kids, sometimes no one listens. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/im...ons/icon10.png
    Talking
    I'm sorry, what did you say?


  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Who is Massad Ayoob? Only one of the best Weapons Instructors ever. I have friends who have attended his LFI classes. Attend if your can well worth the Money & the time.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    Be innocent of instigation, retreat, retreat, retreat. credo it- live by it, so to speak- on the grander scale. it wont make you heroic, it might might make you look like a wuss, but it's the way it is. Just do it, so to speak. Until the Castle Doctrine is put in place in this state. the rest is just debate.
    this.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  10. #10
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Highly recommended course

    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    FYI

    "Tactical Anatomy Systems is pleased to announce
    Massad Ayoob of Massad Ayoob Group will be holding an "MAG-20, Classroom - Deadly Force Course"....
    Is it the usual arrangement where if you take his class and later on end up in court, he will appear as an expert witness for free? $400 is a real deal; I believe that normally it's $600.
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  11. #11
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    It is my understanding that if you attend his class, and you are involved in a defensive shooting, he will testify on your behalf for free. He is recognized by the federal gov. as being an expert witness in defensive shootings.

  12. #12
    Regular Member BrewTownBagger's Avatar
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    I've been to a few CCW classes and in all of them they state that the following conditions must be present to legally use deadly force
    1. You are a reluctant participant
    2. You are reasonably in immediate fear of death or great bodily harm
    3. That no lessor amount of force will do
    4. Retreat is not possible

    Keep in mind that all four must exist to be justified

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrewTownBagger View Post
    I've been to a few CCW classes and in all of them they state that the following conditions must be present to legally use deadly force
    1. You are a reluctant participant
    2. You are reasonably in immediate fear of death or great bodily harm
    3. That no lessor amount of force will do
    4. Retreat is not possible

    Keep in mind that all four must exist to be justified
    Until Wisconsin enacts a "Castle" doctrine the above must be met, without fail.

    JJC

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